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Any of you think Brady is declining or past his prime?
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Pats#1


Joined: 19 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dalton wrote:
Donut wrote:
Brady's trouble comes w/ not trusting his WRs. He holds the ball longer to see what they're doing w/ routes and OL is pretty poor this year specifically in the interior. He's declining in a way his deep ball, that was at best avg, is very poor. He'll be fine once he gets weapons around him he trusts.


Quick question: Who was the last QB with a terrible deep ball to win the Superbowl?

Not Flacco
Not Eli
Not Rodgers
Not Brees
Not Ben
Not Peyton

...


I see you still haven't made that thread in NFL Gen yet.
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persiandud


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brady doesn't have a deep ball?

News to me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUGj5qQFnnc
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Jmacz008


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know if we can really tell for sure at this point. There is no arguing he's looked worse this year than he has in a long time. He's missing throws, making bad reads, and taking more sacks.

But I don't think anyone can say for sure, because a lot of those problems may be caused by having a new receiving core, and a declining O-Line.
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NextBigThing


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gronks long touchdown, which was called back, was a fantastic throw (and catch).
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Canton


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me put this to bed once and for all, he is not past him prime, on the decline, washed up or any of that crap.

- He is only 36, and Peyton Manning is about to be 38 so if Peyton Manning can and is still playing at an elite level then Tom Brady is still an elite quarterback. Age has nothing to do with it.

- Manning and Brady are the type of quarterbacks that get better with age, and mentally and psychologically at their peaks where they've seen everything, know everything and beat you with their mind - THE ONLY DIFFERENCE is the surroundings of Peyton Manning vs Tom Brady

- When you loose Wes Welker, Rob Gronkowski, Danny Woodhead, Aaron Hernandez, and Brandon Lloyd, AND Shane Vereen, AND an oft injured Danny Amendola who are all stars and are on able to create any chemistry at all with the remaining players or player (Edelman) that you have left and still be 5-1 or 6-2 that just proves that you are the best, and in my opinion, this is his best season and performance.

- Brady trains extra hard and keeps his body in great shape and he looked superb in the preseason. Looked as accurate and his armed looked as strong as ever. Its not like his arm lost strength, or he became dumber and forgot how to be a great quarterback... NO, none of that crap happened.

- Played very good defenses, with a decimated offense in the Bengals, Jets, Saints, and Buffalo has an underrated defense

- He just had his second best season of his career last year, and is physically impossible for any great quarterback at his level to drop off in just one season that quickly. Not his fault, nothing wrong with his mental game or anything like that.

- Played with a swollen hand on his throwing arm and still led his team to a win.....

- Brett Favre, John Elway, Peyton Manning, Kurt Warner, Warren Moon, Fran Tarkenton have all had great seasons at an even older age then Tom so whats all this bullsh*t?

- Jordan won a championship at age 37...

For anyone to even say something as remotely stupid and idiotic as to say Tom Brady is on the decline given all of what he has had to overcome this season is ridiculous, but as his receivers get better and the offense improves as it is and people start to get healthy, they'll see he is the same Tom Brady.

Tom Brady is Tom Brady, he is not a system quarterback, he is the system, he is not overrated, he is the rating, he is great, accurate, clutch, a survivor, a competitor and an elite quarterback that's still at the top of his game and one of those great veteran players like a Peyton Manning or John Elway.

Any other quarterback including Peyton Manning who had to go through the off season he has had and inherit the situation he has had to on the field would be in a worst predicament. MAYBE Peyton would have won the same amount of games but I even don't think so with that.
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Jaymun


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Canton wrote:
Let me put this to bed once and for all, he is not past him prime, on the decline, washed up or any of that crap.

- He is only 36, and Peyton Manning is about to be 38 so if Peyton Manning can and is still playing at an elite level then Tom Brady is still an elite quarterback. Age has nothing to do with it.

- Manning and Brady are the type of quarterbacks that get better with age, and mentally and psychologically at their peaks where they've seen everything, know everything and beat you with their mind - THE ONLY DIFFERENCE is the surroundings of Peyton Manning vs Tom Brady

- When you loose Wes Welker, Rob Gronkowski, Danny Woodhead, Aaron Hernandez, and Brandon Lloyd, AND Shane Vereen, AND an oft injured Danny Amendola who are all stars and are on able to create any chemistry at all with the remaining players or player (Edelman) that you have left and still be 5-1 or 6-2 that just proves that you are the best, and in my opinion, this is his best season and performance.

- Brady trains extra hard and keeps his body in great shape and he looked superb in the preseason. Looked as accurate and his armed looked as strong as ever. Its not like his arm lost strength, or he became dumber and forgot how to be a great quarterback... NO, none of that crap happened.

- Played very good defenses, with a decimated offense in the Bengals, Jets, Saints, and Buffalo has an underrated defense

- He just had his second best season of his career last year, and is physically impossible for any great quarterback at his level to drop off in just one season that quickly. Not his fault, nothing wrong with his mental game or anything like that.

- Played with a swollen hand on his throwing arm and still led his team to a win.....

- Brett Favre, John Elway, Peyton Manning, Kurt Warner, Warren Moon, Fran Tarkenton have all had great seasons at an even older age then Tom so whats all this bullsh*t?

- Jordan won a championship at age 37...

For anyone to even say something as remotely stupid and idiotic as to say Tom Brady is on the decline given all of what he has had to overcome this season is ridiculous, but as his receivers get better and the offense improves as it is and people start to get healthy, they'll see he is the same Tom Brady.

Tom Brady is Tom Brady, he is not a system quarterback, he is the system, he is not overrated, he is the rating, he is great, accurate, clutch, a survivor, a competitor and an elite quarterback that's still at the top of his game and one of those great veteran players like a Peyton Manning or John Elway.

Any other quarterback including Peyton Manning who had to go through the off season he has had and inherit the situation he has had to on the field would be in a worst predicament. MAYBE Peyton would have won the same amount of games but I even don't think so with that.


People that aren't Tom Brady playing well at older ages has absolutely nothing to do with whether Brady is declining or not.

I don't know why you would pretend to know how hard NFL players train, but I can't think of a reason to think that Tom trains "extra hard" or that he gets more benefit out of his training than anyone else

He can play good defenses and also be declining, it's not that either the defense is good OR brady is declining

Great QBs certainly decline in a one-year span. Steve Young didn't play a full 1999, but went from a great year in 1998 to a qbr of 60 in his 3 games of 1999
Marino's qbr dropped off from 80 to 67
Aikman from 81 to 64
It looks like QBs dropping off is actually not physically impossible

Other QBs having great seasons while older than brady means nothing

Jordan winning a championship at 37 means absolutely nothing in the context of Tom Brady

Brady and Manning are different players, different human beings, and have different skill sets, to name a few differences. If they only get better with age, how long do you expect them to play. 50 years old? 60? They'll have seen it all by then

Arguing that he is on top of his game as a reason for why you think he is on top of his game just hurts my brain

Speculating what Peyton would do in our offense has nothing to do with whether Brady is regressing.


The argument is not whether Brady is a good quarterback still, or capable of having a good season, it's whether or not his play is deteriorating, and whether it's due to injury or age I don't know how you can watch a Patriots game this year and see that he's just not playing at the same level he has in the past
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaymun wrote:
I don't know how you can watch a Patriots game this year and see that he's just not playing at the same level he has in the past


Nobody is saying this.
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Jaymun


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
Jaymun wrote:
I don't know how you can watch a Patriots game this year and see that he's just not playing at the same level he has in the past


Nobody is saying this.


Oops, meant NOT see that he's not playing at the same level he has in the past

in reference to comments like
Canton wrote:
this is his best season and performance.

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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaymun wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
Jaymun wrote:
I don't know how you can watch a Patriots game this year and see that he's just not playing at the same level he has in the past


Nobody is saying this.


Oops, meant NOT see that he's not playing at the same level he has in the past

in reference to comments like
Canton wrote:
this is his best season and performance.


I think there's a reasonable middle ground though. Clearly, this is not his best season. But I don't think that means he is declining (at least, not in the erosion of physical skills sense).

If anything, I think his mental game is declining (or struggling) more than his physical game.
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Pats#1


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
Jaymun wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
Jaymun wrote:
I don't know how you can watch a Patriots game this year and see that he's just not playing at the same level he has in the past


Nobody is saying this.


Oops, meant NOT see that he's not playing at the same level he has in the past

in reference to comments like
Canton wrote:
this is his best season and performance.


I think there's a reasonable middle ground though. Clearly, this is not his best season. But I don't think that means he is declining (at least, not in the erosion of physical skills sense).

If anything, I think his mental game is declining (or struggling) more than his physical game.


This is my take on it.

I think all of the crap that has/is going on (inuries, new WRs, inconsistencies) is getting to him, just like it would most people.

He isn't playing great....but his inconsistencies are getting way overblown.
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TomRalph


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We need to utilize the short passing game and dump offs a little more than we currently are. Too many hopeful deep shots and intermediate throws to covered guys when dump offs to RB's or TE's have been available.

I was watching the YT videos of Brady's drives in the SBs against Carolina and St. Louis and he had no issues throwing short passes there to milk the clock, pick up little chunks of yards and gain even more in YAC. It also opens up the deeper game when defenses start to creep forward.

I think this would make it easier for the young/new WR's and help elevate the confidence of the entire offense - especially help the O-Line who've certainly had their struggles this year.
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I_GET_SAX


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
@ESPNStatsInfo: Tom Brady has an NFL-high 76 off-target passes this season, 15 more than the next-closest QB (Eli Manning)

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RMolloy24


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Steelers game may just have ended this debate Laughing Brady is the same.
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Deadpulse


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RMolloy24 wrote:
Steelers game may just have ended this debate Laughing Brady is the same.


One game can be an anomaly. Hopefully he keeps it going with a healthy offense (Vereen should be back).
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Dalton


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deadpulse wrote:
RMolloy24 wrote:
Steelers game may just have ended this debate Laughing Brady is the same.


One game can be an anomaly. Hopefully he keeps it going with a healthy offense (Vereen should be back).


Yup. Also, we cannot say that Brady didn't have a lot of help from the Steelers' secondary. They were really bad.

That said, Brady looked very good Sunday afternoon.
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