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Any of you think Brady is declining or past his prime?
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Dalton


Joined: 16 Mar 2010
Posts: 2618
Location: Illinois
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Donut wrote:
Brady's trouble comes w/ not trusting his WRs. He holds the ball longer to see what they're doing w/ routes and OL is pretty poor this year specifically in the interior. He's declining in a way his deep ball, that was at best avg, is very poor. He'll be fine once he gets weapons around him he trusts.


Quick question: Who was the last QB with a terrible deep ball to win the Superbowl?

Not Flacco
Not Eli
Not Rodgers
Not Brees
Not Ben
Not Peyton

...
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 22358
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

patsfan25 wrote:
He's not declining. He's never had more zip and arm in his throws.


I don't know that this is literally true, but your point is a valid one. His arm looked fine both in strength and accuracy in camp. I don't think it has fallen apart in 1 month.

Obviously, throwing accurately in camp/preseason is easier than in regular season play but there was nothing this summer to indicate his arm is in rapid decline
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 22358
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dalton wrote:
Donut wrote:
Brady's trouble comes w/ not trusting his WRs. He holds the ball longer to see what they're doing w/ routes and OL is pretty poor this year specifically in the interior. He's declining in a way his deep ball, that was at best avg, is very poor. He'll be fine once he gets weapons around him he trusts.


Quick question: Who was the last QB with a terrible deep ball to win the Superbowl?

Not Flacco
Not Eli
Not Rodgers
Not Brees
Not Ben
Not Peyton

...


Post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy
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Dalton


Joined: 16 Mar 2010
Posts: 2618
Location: Illinois
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
Dalton wrote:
Donut wrote:
Brady's trouble comes w/ not trusting his WRs. He holds the ball longer to see what they're doing w/ routes and OL is pretty poor this year specifically in the interior. He's declining in a way his deep ball, that was at best avg, is very poor. He'll be fine once he gets weapons around him he trusts.


Quick question: Who was the last QB with a terrible deep ball to win the Superbowl?

Not Flacco
Not Eli
Not Rodgers
Not Brees
Not Ben
Not Peyton

...


Post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy


What team did he QB for? I'm having trouble finding a guy with such a weird name.
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Sciz


Joined: 19 Jan 2009
Posts: 15648
Location: Iowa
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dalton wrote:
Quick question: Who was the last QB with a terrible deep ball to win the Superbowl?
You don't seem to have any trouble thinking that a QB with a worse deep ball is going to win this year's Super Bowl.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 22358
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not super useful because of the lack of context, but somewhat interesting.

2013



2012


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Jaymun


Joined: 16 Jan 2010
Posts: 1170
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dalton wrote:
Donut wrote:
Brady's trouble comes w/ not trusting his WRs. He holds the ball longer to see what they're doing w/ routes and OL is pretty poor this year specifically in the interior. He's declining in a way his deep ball, that was at best avg, is very poor. He'll be fine once he gets weapons around him he trusts.


Quick question: Who was the last QB with a terrible deep ball to win the Superbowl?

Not Flacco
Not Eli
Not Rodgers
Not Brees
Not Ben
Not Peyton

...


I can't put my finger on it but I think there's a guy out of Michigan that has a few super bowls despite a shaky deep ball. Maybe we can bench Brady for him and he could lead the Patriots to one
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 22358
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dalton wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
Dalton wrote:
Donut wrote:
Brady's trouble comes w/ not trusting his WRs. He holds the ball longer to see what they're doing w/ routes and OL is pretty poor this year specifically in the interior. He's declining in a way his deep ball, that was at best avg, is very poor. He'll be fine once he gets weapons around him he trusts.


Quick question: Who was the last QB with a terrible deep ball to win the Superbowl?

Not Flacco
Not Eli
Not Rodgers
Not Brees
Not Ben
Not Peyton

...


Post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy


What team did he QB for? I'm having trouble finding a guy with such a weird name.


Your snark doesn't make my point any less valid.
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Jaymun


Joined: 16 Jan 2010
Posts: 1170
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
Dalton wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
Dalton wrote:
Donut wrote:
Brady's trouble comes w/ not trusting his WRs. He holds the ball longer to see what they're doing w/ routes and OL is pretty poor this year specifically in the interior. He's declining in a way his deep ball, that was at best avg, is very poor. He'll be fine once he gets weapons around him he trusts.


Quick question: Who was the last QB with a terrible deep ball to win the Superbowl?

Not Flacco
Not Eli
Not Rodgers
Not Brees
Not Ben
Not Peyton

...


Post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy


What team did he QB for? I'm having trouble finding a guy with such a weird name.


Your snark doesn't make my point any less valid.


Logic doesn't matter, deep passes do, come on now
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Dalton


Joined: 16 Mar 2010
Posts: 2618
Location: Illinois
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jaymun wrote:
Dalton wrote:
Donut wrote:
Brady's trouble comes w/ not trusting his WRs. He holds the ball longer to see what they're doing w/ routes and OL is pretty poor this year specifically in the interior. He's declining in a way his deep ball, that was at best avg, is very poor. He'll be fine once he gets weapons around him he trusts.


Quick question: Who was the last QB with a terrible deep ball to win the Superbowl?

Not Flacco
Not Eli
Not Rodgers
Not Brees
Not Ben
Not Peyton

...


I can't put my finger on it but I think there's a guy out of Michigan that has a few super bowls despite a shaky deep ball. Maybe we can bench Brady for him and he could lead the Patriots to one


Brady's deep ball was substantially better in his SB days. Although, I'll admit that's not saying much.
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ChazStandard


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brady's deep ball is obviously declining a bit, but the problem is overstated. The players you listed with great deep balls just have big arms and WRs with good hands.

Deep passing in the NFL isn't dropping a ball on in bucket from 60 yards 100% of the time....nobody can do that. Rodger's is the best at it right now and I would say he does that 40-50% of the time. A major part of deep passing is having WR who can correct a QBs errs in accuracy, catch balls despite being covered, and/or be trusted to stop on a dime for a back-shoulder fade. Something no WR here has done since Moss.

For example, the Welker drop in the Superbowl is cited as an overthrow (and it was)...BUT any other teams No 1 receiver would have been able to make that play. Nelson, Bryant, Jones, Jackson, Johnson, Cruz, Thomas, Bowe etc. anyone of them catches the ball and the announcers talk about a great throw under pressure and trusting his WR to make the play blah blah blah.
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NextBigThing


Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 20473
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deep hasn't declined, it was never good. Even with Randy, sooo many his passes were just not great passes. Moss never got enough credit, even when folks unanimously named a top 3 player in football.

Tzimisce wrote:
Whatever issues he's experiencing appear to be purely mental.


Pretty much this.
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NextBigThing


Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 20473
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
patsfan25 wrote:
He's not declining. He's never had more zip and arm in his throws.


I don't know that this is literally true, but your point is a valid one. His arm looked fine both in strength and accuracy in camp. I don't think it has fallen apart in 1 month.

Obviously, throwing accurately in camp/preseason is easier than in regular season play but there was nothing this summer to indicate his arm is in rapid decline


I still think this offense at full strength by years end will be s.c.a.r.y.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
Posts: 22358
PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
patsfan25 wrote:
He's not declining. He's never had more zip and arm in his throws.


I don't know that this is literally true, but your point is a valid one. His arm looked fine both in strength and accuracy in camp. I don't think it has fallen apart in 1 month.

Obviously, throwing accurately in camp/preseason is easier than in regular season play but there was nothing this summer to indicate his arm is in rapid decline


I still think this offense at full strength by years end will be s.c.a.r.y.


Would take some good luck with both injuries and rookie development. So far, they've had very bad luck with both.
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HootersPatrol


Joined: 06 Sep 2009
Posts: 337
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not declining, just has a inexperienced group of receivers and seems to have a hand/shoulder injury of some sort.
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