Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Unleash CJ Anderson
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Denver Broncos
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 5081
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheChosen186 wrote:
JerseysFinest27 wrote:
People are getting a little ahead of themselves if they think Anderson is all of a sudden the best RB on the team, let alone the #2 RB on this team. He hasnt proven anything against starting NFL defenses yet. Sure he beat up on preseason squads but those guys arent playing anymore.

He has probably already proven more than Montee Ball has.

If CJ can show superior running skills than Moreno, then he would be the #1 back on this team. From the scouting report, CJ seems to take a lot of pride on pass-protection, so he seems fine there. CJ's problem seems to be his weak combine numbers particularly his 40 yard dash. He doesn't seem very fast. He really just sounds like a bowling bowl version of Moreno but we'll see when he is out there.

CJ's biggest value is probably going to be able to convert short yardage plays that Moreno and the Broncos were unable to do last week against Colts.


I've gotta side with Jersey on this one. CJ hasn't really shown anything yet. 1/2 of football, the 2nd half, in the 1st preseason game. Lots of 3rd/4th stringers by then. True, he showed some flashes and I like how he runs, but we've seen a total of 15 carries from him. That's not enough IMO to declare him better than anybody.

True, Denver liked him enough to give him a roster spot and enough to promote him this week, but anything beyond that is pure speculation.

I hope he comes through like Robert Holmes did, but at this point the book is wide open.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TheChosen186


Joined: 07 Sep 2013
Posts: 1047
PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JerseysFinest27 wrote:
First, CJ has proven NOTHING in the NFL. Absolutely NOTHING. Preseason means NOTHING, especially when you play against unemployed people.

And sure enough, that is better than what Montee Ball has shown, lol. I actually think they should have deactivated Ball instead but since Hillman's mistake was more recent, Hillman gets the demotion instead.

Ball and Anderson seem pretty similar in a sense that they are not too fast but they are good runners with good vision and good quickness. The difference being is that Anderson is more rounded, superior in pass protection and receiving.

Quote:
Second, if I can show "superior running skills more than Moreno" Ill be the starting RB too. The fact that people are saying a UDFA rookie is already destined to be the starter is the dumbest comment ever.

Nobody said he is destined to be a starter but he has the potential. A lot of great RBs come out of no where (Arian Foster, Terrell Davis, Alfred Morris, and Fred Jackson to name a few) because the reality is that RBs do not need to be physically gifted as much as they need to be mentally. A lot of great RBs have below average speed, like all the ones I listed, but it was their vision and instincts that made them great RBs in the NFL. Physical skills are overrated in general.

Quote:
Lastly, Knowshon has been very good in short yardage this season. Last week is the outlier where nobody on this team was playing well.

I was just listing CJ's strengths and short yardage is one of them due to his power and size.
_________________

Thanks to Joe_is_the_best for the awesome sig.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mke1010


Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 1742
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No one is saying Anderson is going to the Pro Bowl. But there is definitely excitement at what he might be able to do.

Ball hasn't proven a thing both in pre season and the regular season.
All Hillman has proven is he isn't ready. Only Moreno has proven to be a competent NFL back if unspectacular.

Personally speaking, I believe Anderson is better at pass blocking than both Ball and Hillman. So, if CJ can hang on to the ball and get us some tough yardage- that will be a hell of a lot more than both Ball and Hillman have given thus far. Anything more from the former Cal player would be icing on the cake.

Were I a betting man, I would put my money on CJ Anderson performing better than what we have seen from Ball and Hillman. I guess we'll find out tmr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 5081
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hopefully someone can fill me in. I'm reading that CJ is a better receiver than Ball and better in pass pro than Either Ball or Hillman.

I'm not really doubting it. Just wondering what the opinions are based on.

Maybe college, training camp rumors ..........? I'm just curious. Certainly nothing he's done on the field in Denver would support it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TheChosen186


Joined: 07 Sep 2013
Posts: 1047
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
Hopefully someone can fill me in. I'm reading that CJ is a better receiver than Ball and better in pass pro than Either Ball or Hillman.

I'm not really doubting it. Just wondering what the opinions are based on.

Maybe college, training camp rumors ..........? I'm just curious. Certainly nothing he's done on the field in Denver would support it.

I was looking at his scouting report coming out of the draft and in the NFL.

Did he not look like a good receiver or a pass blocker in the preseason game or something? Cause I did not watch that game or pay too close attention to any of the preseason games except the Seahawks one.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/college_player_scouting_report.html&player=54140

Quote:
SUMMARY - He has a very wide, thick build with limited growth potential to develop for the position at the NFL level. He is a good overall athlete with solid foot quickness and lateral agility. He runs behind his pads with good power. However, he has only average long speed, acceleration and big-play potential and can't be considered a complete, every-down prospect for the next level. He shows very good strength on contact as an inside runner as he consistently breaks arm tackles in his play. He is most effective running between the tackles. He lacks the explosiveness and elusiveness in the open field to be a special back in space. He is a fairly productive and natural receiver out of the backfield. He shows soft hands with the ability to locate the ball in the air. He has excellent toughness and aggressiveness as a blocker in pass protection. He is equally willing to chip on his way to the flat, as he is to step up and take on a blitzer. Unfortunately, he does not possess added value to consider for special teams. Overall, he deserves late 5th round draft consideration by a team looking for a power back to be part of a rotation.


The funny thing is that if you look at his NFL combine stats, they are actually better than Montee Ball's numbers.
_________________

Thanks to Joe_is_the_best for the awesome sig.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
JerseysFinest27


Joined: 07 Jan 2010
Posts: 8167
Location: New Jersey... Props to inDENguise on the sig
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheChosen186 wrote:

And sure enough, that is better than what Montee Ball has shown, lol. I actually think they should have deactivated Ball instead but since Hillman's mistake was more recent, Hillman gets the demotion instead.

Ball and Anderson seem pretty similar in a sense that they are not too fast but they are good runners with good vision and good quickness. The difference being is that Anderson is more rounded, superior in pass protection and receiving.

Hillman every bit deserved the demotion. He hasnt been able to hold the ball all year, including pre-season, which was when he lost his starting gig. Ball hasnt proven much this year but I think he has had very nice spurts. Playing is better than not playing and for that I think Ball has proven more.

Also, I think you are relying way too much on scouting reports. Scouting reports are good but are often wrong. Until the player puts in on the field, they cannot be counted on for anything.


TheChosen186 wrote:
Nobody said he is destined to be a starter but he has the potential. A lot of great RBs come out of no where (Arian Foster, Terrell Davis, Alfred Morris, and Fred Jackson to name a few) because the reality is that RBs do not need to be physically gifted as much as they need to be mentally. A lot of great RBs have below average speed, like all the ones I listed, but it was their vision and instincts that made them great RBs in the NFL. Physical skills are overrated in general.

You are right. Many RB's do come out of nowhere.

BUT, to count on Anderson being "the next one" is early and flawed. Obviously Fox and the front office thought enough of him to keep him on the final 53 over Jeremiah Johnson and Lance Ball. Im not going to sit here and discredit anything the guy has done. What I am going to do is wait till he puts something on the field that actually warrants consideration for more playing time.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 5081
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheChosen186 wrote:
AKRNA wrote:
Hopefully someone can fill me in. I'm reading that CJ is a better receiver than Ball and better in pass pro than Either Ball or Hillman.

I'm not really doubting it. Just wondering what the opinions are based on.

Maybe college, training camp rumors ..........? I'm just curious. Certainly nothing he's done on the field in Denver would support it.

I was looking at his scouting report coming out of the draft and in the NFL.

Did he not look like a good receiver or a pass blocker in the preseason game or something? Cause I did not watch that game or pay too close attention to any of the preseason games except the Seahawks one.

.


I don't think they threw at him. All that stood out are a couple of runs where he looked like a pinball.

Like I say, 2nd half, 1st preseason game. Watchin' in a Bar in Wasilla and not paying lots of attention. Paying more attention to Brock than anything.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TheChosen186


Joined: 07 Sep 2013
Posts: 1047
PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JerseysFinest27 wrote:
Hillman every bit deserved the demotion. He hasnt been able to hold the ball all year, including pre-season, which was when he lost his starting gig. Ball hasnt proven much this year but I think he has had very nice spurts. Playing is better than not playing and for that I think Ball has proven more.

Ball has been just as horrendous in ball security, although Hillman's struggle has existed since the preseason, so I guess Hillman has done worse.

lol at Ball having nice spurts. You mean the few nice runs he had against the Raiders and then he ended up fumbling and losing his 2nd RB spot to Hillman? Ball has not done anything well so far except a few runs where he messed it up with bad ball security anyways.

I have no issue labeling CJ the #2 back at this point because Hillman and Ball are mistake prone and mistakes cost you in the NFL.

Quote:
You are right. Many RB's do come out of nowhere.

BUT, to count on Anderson being "the next one" is early and flawed. Obviously Fox and the front office thought enough of him to keep him on the final 53 over Jeremiah Johnson and Lance Ball. Im not going to sit here and discredit anything the guy has done. What I am going to do is wait till he puts something on the field that actually warrants consideration for more playing time.

You will see. I think he'll be better than Ball. I don't think he will be the next TD.
_________________

Thanks to Joe_is_the_best for the awesome sig.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TheChosen186


Joined: 07 Sep 2013
Posts: 1047
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought CJ played better than Ball today and I think CJ will eventually overtake Ball as the #2 back. The biggest issue with CJ right now is lack of experience as he doesn't know the playbook since he has mostly been on scout teams and on the sidelines. It is why Peyton told him the exact route he had to run when they were passing it.

CJ is a better runner than Ball. He has a much a better initial burst and explosiveness than Ball does. Ball is too patient of a runner. It is like he waits for holes to open up before he explodes opposed to exploding and finding the holes at the same time which is what you're suppose to do really.

I liked the TD that Ball got but I honestly think CJ could have literally done the same thing.
_________________

Thanks to Joe_is_the_best for the awesome sig.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mke1010


Joined: 08 Mar 2008
Posts: 1742
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I concur. I think CJ was rusty and is still far behind all the running backs in terms of knowing the playbook yet he still looked the better runner over Ball. Granted Ball had a serviceable game today.

Due to the high pick we have invested in Ball, there is nothing I would like to see more than crow being shoved done my throat by Montee. For now, I will settle for no fumbling and positive yardage.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
copeland


Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 634
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems to me everyone is getting too caught up in the depth chart numbers and where guys are listed.
CJ just had his very first NFL carry in week 8 of his rookie season, and it is obvious he is far behind in the play book. Last thing they should've done is throw him to the wolves and risk "causing" the same problems we've been seeing out if Hillman and Ball. Let's let him get his feet wet, and catch up mentally, before his work load increases. Then , if he shows he is superior to the other guys, he gets the nod.
The coaching staff will not hand it to him.
_________________
I long for the days when giving your word, with a firm handshake, was the "signature on the contract."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
marktheshark


Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 5428
Location: NYC
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thought Anderson looked better the Ball, clearly needs work but I think he has greater potential.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
germ-x


Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 7795
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually like what i have seen from Montee Ball and even though he was one of my favorite college players to watch, i wasn't high on him as an NFL prospect. He hasn't been impressive, but i like the traits he has shown at the position, especially his explosiveness when cutting. His skill set is very much reminiscent of Terrell Davis, IMO.

I also like the characteristics Anderson brings to the table as well. The biggest being his stature. Maybe this has been true over many years, i can't recall them, but for whatever reason (i have no idea what it could be) the current NFL seems to cater toward shorter/stocky RB's. Off of the top of my head guys like Ray Rice, MJD, Frank Gore, and Doug Martin are all players with a similar build too Anderson and playing excellent football. Zac Stacy a rookie for the Rams is another similar built player whose playing very well in St. Louis. While i'm not saying Anderson will have the type of impact these guys have had (i'm also not saying Ball with have a TD type career, lol) he's built in the same mold and has the physical gifts to go with it. 4.5 speed and has shown very good vision through the preseason and through a few carries vs Washington.

I like Denver's situation here.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AKRNA


Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 5081
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

germ-x wrote:
I actually like what i have seen from Montee Ball and even though he was one of my favorite college players to watch, i wasn't high on him as an NFL prospect. He hasn't been impressive, but i like the traits he has shown at the position, especially his explosiveness when cutting. His skill set is very much reminiscent of Terrell Davis, IMO.

I also like the characteristics Anderson brings to the table as well. The biggest being his stature. Maybe this has been true over many years, i can't recall them, but for whatever reason (i have no idea what it could be) the current NFL seems to cater toward shorter/stocky RB's. Off of the top of my head guys like Ray Rice, MJD, Frank Gore, and Doug Martin are all players with a similar build too Anderson and playing excellent football. Zac Stacy a rookie for the Rams is another similar built player whose playing very well in St. Louis. While i'm not saying Anderson will have the type of impact these guys have had (i'm also not saying Ball with have a TD type career, lol) he's built in the same mold and has the physical gifts to go with it. 4.5 speed and has shown very good vision through the preseason and through a few carries vs Washington.

I like Denver's situation here.


The first I remember in that mold was Robert Holmes, FB for the Chiefs late 60's early 70's. His career was injury plagued but his first few years he was explosive. The original "bowling ball".

Haven't really been a lot since then but the current crop seems to be reviving it. I would imagine, more than anything, very few 5'8"/5'9" ballplayers excel at the college level. On a normal frame, these guys are just too small to hold up in the NFL.

Carrying 220-230 muscular lbs on that short a frame is a rare body type indeed.

One thing they all seem to display is great balance running between the tackles. Very hard to knock off their feet.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
germ-x


Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 7795
PostPosted: Fri Nov 01, 2013 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
germ-x wrote:
I actually like what i have seen from Montee Ball and even though he was one of my favorite college players to watch, i wasn't high on him as an NFL prospect. He hasn't been impressive, but i like the traits he has shown at the position, especially his explosiveness when cutting. His skill set is very much reminiscent of Terrell Davis, IMO.

I also like the characteristics Anderson brings to the table as well. The biggest being his stature. Maybe this has been true over many years, i can't recall them, but for whatever reason (i have no idea what it could be) the current NFL seems to cater toward shorter/stocky RB's. Off of the top of my head guys like Ray Rice, MJD, Frank Gore, and Doug Martin are all players with a similar build too Anderson and playing excellent football. Zac Stacy a rookie for the Rams is another similar built player whose playing very well in St. Louis. While i'm not saying Anderson will have the type of impact these guys have had (i'm also not saying Ball with have a TD type career, lol) he's built in the same mold and has the physical gifts to go with it. 4.5 speed and has shown very good vision through the preseason and through a few carries vs Washington.

I like Denver's situation here.


The first I remember in that mold was Robert Holmes, FB for the Chiefs late 60's early 70's. His career was injury plagued but his first few years he was explosive. The original "bowling ball".

Haven't really been a lot since then but the current crop seems to be reviving it. I would imagine, more than anything, very few 5'8"/5'9" ballplayers excel at the college level. On a normal frame, these guys are just too small to hold up in the NFL.

Carrying 220-230 muscular lbs on that short a frame is a rare body type indeed.

One thing they all seem to display is great balance running between the tackles. Very hard to knock off their feet.


I agree with this and CJ Anderson's best carry last week was an excellent demonstration of this. He was hit and used his hand to keep balance and pick up another 5 or so yards. Their low center of gravity may be a big reason why they are emerging. I also thought their ability to block may be another. Blocking at the RB position in pass pro isn't like blocking along the OL or at TE, ones length makes very little difference as you aren't asked to sustain a block or ride defenders outside the play. Essentially you are asked to pick up blitzes and by design if the play works correctly an RB shouldn't have to hold the block for a long period. These shorter players have natural leverage against defenders, especially when you pack 220+ pounds into a 5'9" frame...most of these guys appear to have excellent lower body strength. With the current league built so much around passing it makes players that can block difficult to pull out of a game.

My final thought, may be the old saying of how smaller players are difficult to see behind the line and behind their blockers. This as well could have an impact. Players today are bigger. Hell, Denver's original starting OL was just massive (outside of Beadles). Clady (6'6" 315), Ramirez (6'3" 320), Vasquez (6'5" 325), and Franklin (6'7" 320) those are some big boys and i could definitely see with all the body movement both offensively and defensively how it would be difficult for a defender to pick up an RB half a foot shorter than the players he is running behind.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Denver Broncos All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group