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2013 News & Discussion Threadô [Vol. 2]
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Phire


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can totally manage Cooper, Maclin, and Jackson at the same time. This is an offense that doesn't have a fullback. Where did that extra position go? We give it to either tight ends or wide outs, meaning getting stronger at 3rd WR and 2nd TE (I'm not saying we need to upgrade 2nd TE) will make our offense stronger since those guys are basically starters in this offense anyways.

Chip likes to spread the defense out, we're definitely going to want 3 solid WRs. I think Cooper and Jackson are locks for next year. We can either retain Maclin or look for a replacement. But the point is that you go as strong as you can with your top 3 wide outs because it'll just make the offense that much better.
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Withmy89vision


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phire wrote:
You can totally manage Cooper, Maclin, and Jackson at the same time. This is an offense that doesn't have a fullback. Where did that extra position go? We give it to either tight ends or wide outs, meaning getting stronger at 3rd WR and 2nd TE (I'm not saying we need to upgrade 2nd TE) will make our offense stronger since those guys are basically starters in this offense anyways.

Chip likes to spread the defense out, we're definitely going to want 3 solid WRs. I think Cooper and Jackson are locks for next year. We can either retain Maclin or look for a replacement. But the point is that you go as strong as you can with your top 3 wide outs because it'll just make the offense that much better.


That isn't the point. Maclin has proven consistently he can't go over the middle, because even minor contact takes him out of a game for a few plays. So you are going to pay him a bunch of money so you can under-utilize Jackson and/or Cooper?

That's a waste of resources. I like Maclin, don't get me wrong, but he doesn't really fit into what we have except as a backup to Desean. That's a waste of our money and he probably doesn't want to do that.

Why not let Maclin go, use a mid round pick on a decent slot guy, save our money for something else, or maybe use Maclin as a way to get a comp pick?

Unless you believe Cooper can be a good slot guy, but what we have going on now seems to be working. Why screw with Foles and Cooper's chemistry to try some experiment that might not be worth trying? If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Hell, I believe we don't even need to draft a slot guy. Besides what we have, I would like to see us flexing Shady out in the slot and using our other two talented backs more often. We could be doing that with our current personnel if we spent every resource we have this offseason on defense and oline depth.

That would be an awesome offense. Jackson out wide right, Celek or Ertz as the strong side TE, Polk or Brown in the backfield next to Foles, Shady in the weak side slot, and Cooper wide left.

This automatically shifts the entire defense. If they play nickel, we can run right up their gut with Polk/Brown or use Shady/Jackson on an end-around. This would also be a great way to use a triple-option.

If they have a big front, we can easily take advantage of that with our speed and the mismatch Shady creates with the LB or safety who is covering him. This could also lead to the FS coming up to focus on Shady, leaving Cooper with a one-on-one and we have seen how dangerous that can be with Foles throwing to him on a 9 route.
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Meco


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phire wrote:
You can totally manage Cooper, Maclin, and Jackson at the same time. This is an offense that doesn't have a fullback. Where did that extra position go? We give it to either tight ends or wide outs, meaning getting stronger at 3rd WR and 2nd TE (I'm not saying we need to upgrade 2nd TE) will make our offense stronger since those guys are basically starters in this offense anyways.

Chip likes to spread the defense out, we're definitely going to want 3 solid WRs. I think Cooper and Jackson are locks for next year. We can either retain Maclin or look for a replacement. But the point is that you go as strong as you can with your top 3 wide outs because it'll just make the offense that much better.


Jeremy Maclin and Riley Cooper play the same position. Not just that they play WR but they're both X WRs. Neither can play in the slot, they're both perimeter guys. You've got your Z in DeSean, your X in Cooper or Maclin, you need a Y.
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Bednarik60


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maclin is not a perimeter guy, he cant jump at all, isnt physical, and isnt a true burner.
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Meco


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bednarik60 wrote:
Maclin is not a perimeter guy, he cant jump at all, isnt physical, and isnt a true burner.



Sigh... Why do I even bother with you people?

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Phire


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Maclin injury thing is too overblown. He doesn't get hurt every time he takes a hit. During Reid's tenure both Maclin and Jackson played in the slot A LOT, they don't have to run across the middle just because they're lined up at the slot...
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Dr. Philly


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meco wrote:
Bednarik60 wrote:
Maclin is not a perimeter guy, he cant jump at all, isnt physical, and isnt a true burner.



Sigh... Why do I even bother with you people?



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Withmy89vision


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phire wrote:
The Maclin injury thing is too overblown. He doesn't get hurt every time he takes a hit. During Reid's tenure both Maclin and Jackson played in the slot A LOT, they don't have to run across the middle just because they're lined up at the slot...


So no inside routes from the slot? Very limited offense then. And Maclin was on his knees twice a game at least
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Nabbs4u


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's not a single route Maclin can not run in this offense from any posistion on the field. Why people continue to suggest Maclin is weak, can't take a hit, can't play the slot is mind boggling to me. Maclin has always been by far the most physical WR we have had on this roster. He is not afraid to block. Has rarely ever backed down from contact and has the speed to open up holds in the defense which Avant can not.
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Phire


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Withmy89vision wrote:
Phire wrote:
The Maclin injury thing is too overblown. He doesn't get hurt every time he takes a hit. During Reid's tenure both Maclin and Jackson played in the slot A LOT, they don't have to run across the middle just because they're lined up at the slot...


So no inside routes from the slot? Very limited offense then. And Maclin was on his knees twice a game at least

What is with this Maclin obsession? I understand the point, he seems to get hurt a lot. It's just plain untrue that Maclin can't run routes across the middle of the field, he's done them all his career and he's taken many hits without "being down on his knees".

Dude has started 57 games in the 4 years he's been active, missing a grand total of 4 games in that span.

You show me 1 play where Maclin "gets hurt after a hit" and I'll show you 50 plays where he gets right back up from a hit. We just don't make a big deal about it when nothing happens.

He's 25 and missed this entire year, yet, he's still only 5 touchdown grabs behind Desean Jackson. I don't know why people insist on trashing Jeremy Maclin, but there's literally no downside to keeping him and having him on the field. He's not going to be handed the starting job, he'll be on a short "prove it" deal. And giving him that deal does not bar us from pursuing a potential upgrade for the future.
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Nabbs4u


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ Because in some peoples minds they still hold a grudge that he (like others) was the pick.

Maclin- Nicks
Graham- JPP

When in fact both of those other players have shown to be just as injury prone if not more and even less productive over the year. Some agenda's can't be let go of.
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AZ_Eaglesfan


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meco wrote:
Phire wrote:
You can totally manage Cooper, Maclin, and Jackson at the same time. This is an offense that doesn't have a fullback. Where did that extra position go? We give it to either tight ends or wide outs, meaning getting stronger at 3rd WR and 2nd TE (I'm not saying we need to upgrade 2nd TE) will make our offense stronger since those guys are basically starters in this offense anyways.

Chip likes to spread the defense out, we're definitely going to want 3 solid WRs. I think Cooper and Jackson are locks for next year. We can either retain Maclin or look for a replacement. But the point is that you go as strong as you can with your top 3 wide outs because it'll just make the offense that much better.


Jeremy Maclin and Riley Cooper play the same position. Not just that they play WR but they're both X WRs. Neither can play in the slot, they're both perimeter guys. You've got your Z in DeSean, your X in Cooper or Maclin, you need a Y.

Why people can't see this, I honestly don't know.
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Phire


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZ_Eaglesfan wrote:
Meco wrote:
Phire wrote:
You can totally manage Cooper, Maclin, and Jackson at the same time. This is an offense that doesn't have a fullback. Where did that extra position go? We give it to either tight ends or wide outs, meaning getting stronger at 3rd WR and 2nd TE (I'm not saying we need to upgrade 2nd TE) will make our offense stronger since those guys are basically starters in this offense anyways.

Chip likes to spread the defense out, we're definitely going to want 3 solid WRs. I think Cooper and Jackson are locks for next year. We can either retain Maclin or look for a replacement. But the point is that you go as strong as you can with your top 3 wide outs because it'll just make the offense that much better.


Jeremy Maclin and Riley Cooper play the same position. Not just that they play WR but they're both X WRs. Neither can play in the slot, they're both perimeter guys. You've got your Z in DeSean, your X in Cooper or Maclin, you need a Y.

Why people can't see this, I honestly don't know.

Doesn't matter. There is no rule that says you can't have multiple Xs on your roster. Depth is what makes a team strong. Just because we have Cooper it doesn't mean Maclin can't be a valuable asset to the team. It also does not mean at all that we can't have 2 Xs and still go after a Y.

There also isn't a rule that you can't have 2 Xs, Ys, or Zs on the same field at the same time.

There furthermore isn't a guarantee that everyone stays healthy. Thus, it's always a good idea to have more than 1 X, Y, or Z, or any other position for that matter.

And one more thing, there also is no guarantee that we will actually be in position to acquire a "Y" receiver. Sure, let's hypothetically hold that we no longer need Maclin because Cooper is the X. Good bye Maclin! We're getting ourselves a Y receiver! OK, we can't get one in free agency or the draft. Now what? Now we're a team with weak depth at WR.
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Think about this phire. I am the real chow.

RainbowCarebear wrote:
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AZ_Eaglesfan


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phire wrote:
AZ_Eaglesfan wrote:
Meco wrote:
Phire wrote:
You can totally manage Cooper, Maclin, and Jackson at the same time. This is an offense that doesn't have a fullback. Where did that extra position go? We give it to either tight ends or wide outs, meaning getting stronger at 3rd WR and 2nd TE (I'm not saying we need to upgrade 2nd TE) will make our offense stronger since those guys are basically starters in this offense anyways.

Chip likes to spread the defense out, we're definitely going to want 3 solid WRs. I think Cooper and Jackson are locks for next year. We can either retain Maclin or look for a replacement. But the point is that you go as strong as you can with your top 3 wide outs because it'll just make the offense that much better.


Jeremy Maclin and Riley Cooper play the same position. Not just that they play WR but they're both X WRs. Neither can play in the slot, they're both perimeter guys. You've got your Z in DeSean, your X in Cooper or Maclin, you need a Y.

Why people can't see this, I honestly don't know.

Doesn't matter. There is no rule that says you can't have multiple Xs on your roster. Depth is what makes a team strong. Just because we have Cooper it doesn't mean Maclin can't be a valuable asset to the team. It also does not mean at all that we can't have 2 Xs and still go after a Y.

There also isn't a rule that you can't have 2 Xs, Ys, or Zs on the same field at the same time.

There furthermore isn't a guarantee that everyone stays healthy. Thus, it's always a good idea to have more than 1 X, Y, or Z, or any other position for that matter.

And one more thing, there also is no guarantee that we will actually be in position to acquire a "Y" receiver. Sure, let's hypothetically hold that we no longer need Maclin because Cooper is the X. Good bye Maclin! We're getting ourselves a Y receiver! OK, we can't get one in free agency or the draft. Now what? Now we're a team with weak depth at WR.

Obviously, you want as many good WR's as possible. But everyone is assuming Maclin is going to be next to free next year, and I just don't think that is the case? Is it worth 5 mil plus to sign a constantly injured WR who's skill set is 100% redundant on our team? I honestly don't think it is, and the way we use our WR's suggests that the first team is going to be in for most of the game. So again, would you want to pay 5 mil plus so that you can sign a WR that will either be on the bench or force another one of your better players on the bench instead?
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Phire


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AZ_Eaglesfan wrote:
Phire wrote:
AZ_Eaglesfan wrote:
Meco wrote:
Phire wrote:
You can totally manage Cooper, Maclin, and Jackson at the same time. This is an offense that doesn't have a fullback. Where did that extra position go? We give it to either tight ends or wide outs, meaning getting stronger at 3rd WR and 2nd TE (I'm not saying we need to upgrade 2nd TE) will make our offense stronger since those guys are basically starters in this offense anyways.

Chip likes to spread the defense out, we're definitely going to want 3 solid WRs. I think Cooper and Jackson are locks for next year. We can either retain Maclin or look for a replacement. But the point is that you go as strong as you can with your top 3 wide outs because it'll just make the offense that much better.


Jeremy Maclin and Riley Cooper play the same position. Not just that they play WR but they're both X WRs. Neither can play in the slot, they're both perimeter guys. You've got your Z in DeSean, your X in Cooper or Maclin, you need a Y.

Why people can't see this, I honestly don't know.

Doesn't matter. There is no rule that says you can't have multiple Xs on your roster. Depth is what makes a team strong. Just because we have Cooper it doesn't mean Maclin can't be a valuable asset to the team. It also does not mean at all that we can't have 2 Xs and still go after a Y.

There also isn't a rule that you can't have 2 Xs, Ys, or Zs on the same field at the same time.

There furthermore isn't a guarantee that everyone stays healthy. Thus, it's always a good idea to have more than 1 X, Y, or Z, or any other position for that matter.

And one more thing, there also is no guarantee that we will actually be in position to acquire a "Y" receiver. Sure, let's hypothetically hold that we no longer need Maclin because Cooper is the X. Good bye Maclin! We're getting ourselves a Y receiver! OK, we can't get one in free agency or the draft. Now what? Now we're a team with weak depth at WR.

Obviously, you want as many good WR's as possible. But everyone is assuming Maclin is going to be next to free next year, and I just don't think that is the case? Is it worth 5 mil plus to sign a constantly injured WR who's skill set is 100% redundant on our team? I honestly don't think it is, and the way we use our WR's suggests that the first team is going to be in for most of the game. So again, would you want to pay 5 mil plus so that you can sign a WR that will either be on the bench or force another one of your better players on the bench instead?

I wouldn't overpay for Maclin. But yeah, my assumption is that he wants to stay in Philly, and that he'd come back on a cheap, short deal.
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