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Early Impressions Of The '12 and '13 Draft Classes
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rabbisson


Joined: 26 Dec 2004
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Location: Stam#PoWwW
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

24isthelaw wrote:
I'm feeling pretty good about the 2013 rookie class. On one hand, no one has really asserted themselves as a good player. But on the other hand, no one has asserted themselves as a bad player either.

I know Jones and Dennard looked like budding stars and Hightower did okay. But Ebert didn't even make the roster. Tavon Wilson was doing the dance known as the Sergio Brown. It was already understood Ebner will never play defense. And Bequette's presence in Foxborough could be neither confirmed nor denied.

On the other hand, this year basically everyone has flashed talent so far. Chris Jones looks like a keeper, Vellano's been okay himself. Buchanan has showed his bend and athleticism. Ryan and Harmon have looked like they belong, with Ryan visibly improving from his first go and making a few plays in the process. Dobson and Thompkins have shown signs of go-to talent (marred by lots of drops, and in AD's case, a few mental gaffes, but the talent is clearly there). The guys closest to M.I.A. are Collins and Boyce, and even then there's some substantial optimism about them developmentally.

Looks like a very deep rookie class to me.


If you're going to give the team credit for finding Vellano, Jones, and Thompkins in 2013, they also deserve praise for mining Brandon Bolden, Fortson, and Develin from 2012. Plus guys like Justin Francis who I think could have made this team - we just decided to go in a different direction.

2012 was an odd draft. We drafted for need with Tavon and then upside with Bequette - but both were pretty much rendered useless with our 2013 picks.
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This guy gets it. Seriously, the ideas being espoused here need to get to 88 mph so they can go back to the 1950's.

I'm a cold-blooded dickens.
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patsfan06


Joined: 19 Nov 2010
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Location: Chestnut Hill
PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deadpulse wrote:
I honestly believe the last two drafts have been very successful. No one has really come in and lit it up right away, but that's what you get when you don't pick in the top 15. We got 3 starters out of 2012, that's a huge win in my book, 3 starters on one of the better defenses in the league this year before Fork and Mayo went down. So far in this past draft Dobson, Harmon, Ryan, and Buchanon are all contributing and some even making starts. Again, that is huge especially so early in their careers.


Not sure how much more "liting it up" Chandler Jones needs to do.

6.5 sacks in 7 games. Top 10 in the league. All while being more than just a pure pass rushing specialist.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

patsfan06 wrote:
Deadpulse wrote:
I honestly believe the last two drafts have been very successful. No one has really come in and lit it up right away, but that's what you get when you don't pick in the top 15. We got 3 starters out of 2012, that's a huge win in my book, 3 starters on one of the better defenses in the league this year before Fork and Mayo went down. So far in this past draft Dobson, Harmon, Ryan, and Buchanon are all contributing and some even making starts. Again, that is huge especially so early in their careers.


Not sure how much more "liting it up" Chandler Jones needs to do.

6.5 sacks in 7 games. Top 10 in the league. All while being more than just a pure pass rushing specialist.


Wait, aren't you the guy who was spamming one of the game threads with "Chandler Jones is such a disappointment"???
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Deadpulse


Joined: 16 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

patsfan06 wrote:
Deadpulse wrote:
I honestly believe the last two drafts have been very successful. No one has really come in and lit it up right away, but that's what you get when you don't pick in the top 15. We got 3 starters out of 2012, that's a huge win in my book, 3 starters on one of the better defenses in the league this year before Fork and Mayo went down. So far in this past draft Dobson, Harmon, Ryan, and Buchanon are all contributing and some even making starts. Again, that is huge especially so early in their careers.


Not sure how much more "liting it up" Chandler Jones needs to do.

6.5 sacks in 7 games. Top 10 in the league. All while being more than just a pure pass rushing specialist.


If your going to quote me, quote all of it. You missed the "right away" part. Chandler was good last year, but he wasn't lighting it up and he got injured and disappeared. He is certainly building towards an elite DE, but I want to see him finish a season strong.
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_Oypus


Joined: 30 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW, Belichick on Collins:

Quote:
I thought he played hard and made some plays, played aggressively and played with good power. We know hes athletic, but I thought other parts of his game showed up. Hes getting better every week.


Of course, it's Belichick, so who knows what he really meant, but it's not like he had anything terrible to say. I'd give that one some time before he starts getting bashed too much. Still the team's first pick in this draft, it wouldn't have happened if the team didn't see something there.
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Deadpulse


Joined: 16 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

_Oypus wrote:
FWIW, Belichick on Collins:

Quote:
I thought he played hard and made some plays, played aggressively and played with good power. We know hes athletic, but I thought other parts of his game showed up. Hes getting better every week.


Of course, it's Belichick, so who knows what he really meant, but it's not like he had anything terrible to say. I'd give that one some time before he starts getting bashed too much. Still the team's first pick in this draft, it wouldn't have happened if the team didn't see something there.


I dismiss stuff like this. He said similar things about wash outs like Cunningham
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_Oypus


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed. I do think calling Cunningham a washout three years ago would have been a stretch.
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jofos


Joined: 13 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
Deadpulse wrote:
Tom Ralph, I have no idea why you hate Dobson so much. He isn't all world, but he looks superior to Taylor Price in almost every way.


Its a response to my dobson pimpage.


NBT you have almost turn me against Dobson. But I really think that Dobson will turn out to be pretty good. In addition to the speed of the defense, the expectation to read and adjust routes, and pressure of being in the NFL, one of the Adjustments that WRs have a tough time adjusting to is the NFL ball. Its like going from hitting a slow pitch softball to hitting a good fastball (not a mlb fastball college maybe) the size of the ball and the speed at which they are thrown is a big adjustment. A lot of quality WR had issues with drops their rookie year.
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GoldenboyGB


Joined: 05 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

2012 about a B to A- right now. I'll go from bottom up.


Nate Ebner- no idea how he's still on the team
Tavon Wilson- hope he will be the last type of pick like that we ever make
Jake B- had high hopes for him as his motor in college showed up on film but his game just hasn't transitioned
Hightower-good sized backer still scratching potential. Can't tell if needs more time or likely this is as good as it gets. Won't know for awhile.
Dennard-beast. Great steal.
Chandler-stud of both draft classes really. He was the player I wanted and the only player in the past decade I've ever called in the first. Chandler has star written all over him if he continues down this road.


I don't wanna really gauge the 13 class but Logan Ryan, Thompkins and Dobson have been the best of that class right now. Next year looking to see more of Mark Harrison, Harmon, Boyce and Jamie Collins.
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Troy Brown


Joined: 21 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't get your Hightower hate. The guy isn't a bad player in the least. Low floor? If anything, I think he had a high floor and low ceiling.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Troy Brown wrote:
I don't get your Hightower hate. The guy isn't a bad player in the least. Low floor? If anything, I think he had a high floor and low ceiling.


He was picked on on Sunday. I suspect the "hate" in the OP was a reaction based on his struggles in coverage vs. the Jets.
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Troy Brown


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
Troy Brown wrote:
I don't get your Hightower hate. The guy isn't a bad player in the least. Low floor? If anything, I think he had a high floor and low ceiling.


He was picked on on Sunday. I suspect the "hate" in the OP was a reaction based on his struggles in coverage vs. the Jets.


I can't think of any LB in the league that hasn't been picked on. That's what you target in any passing game. You're probably right, but it's stubborn.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Troy Brown wrote:
mcmurtry86 wrote:
Troy Brown wrote:
I don't get your Hightower hate. The guy isn't a bad player in the least. Low floor? If anything, I think he had a high floor and low ceiling.


He was picked on on Sunday. I suspect the "hate" in the OP was a reaction based on his struggles in coverage vs. the Jets.


I can't think of any LB in the league that hasn't been picked on. That's what you target in any passing game. You're probably right, but it's stubborn.


That's the problem with guys like Hightower who are steady, solid players but don't make impact plays often. The only time they really get noticed is when they make bad plays or get beat. So it gives (some) people the idea that they're actually poor players.
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Deadpulse


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hightower is doing a commendable job being thrust into a position vacated by Mayo that really isnt his natural position at all as well as taking the HUGE responsibility of the green dot.
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patsfan25


Joined: 07 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't get how most of you constantly and still think Logan Ryan is trash. He will be a very good CB in this league. To me he was the best play-making CB in a very deep draft class. He has the edge and competitiveness that is missing in a lot of CBs. Plays the run great, is always willing to get in on the ball and has the real natural instincts of a DB. Even at how raw he is. Just keep doubting..... Twisted Evil
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On Logan Ryan, pre-draft:
patsfan25 wrote:
Logan Ryan will be the steal of the draft.


Aite,

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