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Week 8: Washington Redskins vs. Denver Broncos
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Slateman wrote:
Props to the defense for doing well in the first half with the backups. Their coaches and quarterback let them down.
agree with this. Mostly IMO it was the coaching. We should have been running the clock out and keeping Peyton on the sidelines in the second half.

Instead we were trying to throw the clock out with an offense and offensive line not built to do that.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marcus21 wrote:
I don't see a lot of heart on this team!!! D Hall had a hell of a game! Kyle should be fired!!! Morris had one carry in the second half after 91 yards in the first half..... Seriously!! That was pathetic.... We seriously could have won that game! Kyle gave that game away!! Griff took a Patrick Ramsey beating! I haven't seen a QB take a beating like that in a while!!! I'm disgusted!
This! Wow wonderful... Bravo!! Applause Applause Applause
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lavar703


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheChosen186 wrote:
Broncos fans here in peace, I just wanted to say good game to you Redskins fans.

-Deangelo Hall punked Demaryius Thomas today. He just wanted it more than DT did. DT played like a giant softie while Hall was playing like an all-pro corner.
-Alfred Morris is a beast of a RB too and he has my favorite TD dance right now.
-I think you guys should consider giving Cousins a shot over RG3 but that's just my personal opinion.

Anyways, good luck to your team for the rest of the season.


What good would playing Cousins do? We have no receivers or OL. We have an awful OC who figures out what works and then completely abandons it. RGIII is being put in a position to fail but I get it, blame the QB and all that jazz.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Amazing that on ESPN in the key stats they post, they don't have Jordan Reed's team leading 8 recs for 90 YDs...

Shocked
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markrc99


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once again there's plenty of blame to go around, but for me the big swing in the game is on the defense. The Broncos came out & looked very much in control on their 1st drive, methodically resulting in a TD. It appeared to me that immediately after De' Hall's INT for six, Manning & Co. completely reasserted command of the game, as if there was never any question, it was only a matter of when. Again they methodically drove the length of the field to score. Then they got the ball back and did it again! After the Redskins went 3 & out & Rocca shanked the punt the Broncos offense needed one play to cover 35 yds for the go ahead touchdown! If that Redskin' defense was truly ever in this thing, this was the stretch of the game to prove it & they were taken apart! I haven't reviewed but it didn't appear to me that the Redskins even tried to force Manning to go over the top. I don't know how many passes he completed for 5 yds or less, but it seemed like 25-30 of them were easy & underneath.
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TheGreeK1973


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

markrc99 wrote:
Once again there's plenty of blame to go around, but for me the big swing in the game is on the defense. The Broncos came out & looked very much in control on their 1st drive, methodically resulting in a TD. It appeared to me that immediately after De' Hall's INT for six, Manning & Co. completely reasserted command of the game, as if there was never any question, it was only a matter of when. Again they methodically drove the length of the field to score. Then they got the ball back and did it again! After the Redskins went 3 & out & Rocca shanked the punt the Broncos offense needed one play to cover 35 yds for the go ahead touchdown! If that Redskin' defense was truly ever in this thing, this was the stretch of the game to prove it & they were taken apart! I haven't reviewed but it didn't appear to me that the Redskins even tried to force Manning to go over the top. I don't know how many passes he completed for 5 yds or less, but it seemed like 25-30 of them were easy & underneath.


Not saying you are wrong in your assessment, but lets not forget the D got 3 turnovers one being a score. lets not forget RGIII was missing wide open receivers out there. Lets not forget against this D, Dallas and in particular Romo had a career day.

This was totally on the offense with the biggest blame going to RGIII because he couldn't see the field, or understand pocket awareness. He locks into the primary receiver and waits until he gets hit. Denver simply played the run all day long (even so, Morris still run the ball well, so I don't know WTF Kyle was thinking going pass pass pass when Denver tied the game) because lets face it guys. RGIII right now is a bellow average passer. You open up things in your running game if you can consistently hit the 15 to 20 yard passes. He can't right now with any consistency.

Yesterday i was watching the game with a friend of mine and he said something that struck me. When just before half time RGIII didn't see a wide open Morgan in the flat and a wide open Garson going post (Morgan probably scores, Garson definitely scores) but he chose to hit Reed while double teamed for an incomplete pass, he said these are the type of plays that give the defense confidence that your QB is inept. In other words he can't see the field to save his life. Yes we end up scoring a TD on that series after a dumb penalty by the Broncos but its plays like these that put the fear of God in the Defense that they need to protect against the pass. These are the plays RGIII needs to hit consistently to make the run that much viable.

I hope to God I am wrong about this but I am going to say it. RGIII is nothing but a gimmicky QB right now that will need a lot of work to be an NFL viable QB in the future. He may or may not get there.
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FosterTheSkins


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with the last paragraph of your post the most Greek. I've noticed most QBs who always lock on their tight ends and # 1 receivers exclusively aren't real pocket passers. This season he's reminding me of Vince Young and Mike Vick who did the same thing early in their careers. Neither one developed into a great quarterback.

The frustrating part is he wasn't like this last year? He seemed on his way to being Aaron Rodgers/ Steve Young/Donovan McNabb. Passers who would scramble to buy time to pass. This season Griffin gets happy feet on almost every passing play and misses wide open WRs.
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Geronimo


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have mixed feelings after having watched the game today.

I really liked our team until 10:00 to play in the 3rd quarter. After that, another team with Redskins' uniform came onto the field.

As usual, our defense fights as long as our opponents are leading by 7 or less. As soon as we lead, our defense becomes soft. Why? Do we play prevent defense in 3rd quarter?

That said, I cannot really blame our D. Two INTs (DHall is playing great this year), 1 forced fumble, they contained the Broncos to 7 point until halftime. Yet I got disappointed seeing 3 screen passes turned into TD or big plays. As they say, "fool me once ...".

Offense. It seems that more and more people doubt about our OC. Well, it's time we recognize he is not a good OC. I am saying that since Grossman was our starter (I was not on FF then). I see bad plays, receivers not getting open, bad decisions. It was so with McNabb, with Grossman, and now with RG3.
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Brian23


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geronimo wrote:
I have mixed feelings after having watched the game today.

I really liked our team until 10:00 to play in the 3rd quarter. After that, another team with Redskins' uniform came onto the field.

As usual, our defense fights as long as our opponents are leading by 7 or less. As soon as we lead, our defense becomes soft. Why? Do we play prevent defense in 3rd quarter?

That said, I cannot really blame our D. Two INTs (DHall is playing great this year), 1 forced fumble, they contained the Broncos to 7 point until halftime. Yet I got disappointed seeing 3 screen passes turned into TD or big plays. As they say, "fool me once ...".

Offense. It seems that more and more people doubt about our OC. Well, it's time we recognize he is not a good OC. I am saying that since Grossman was our starter (I was not on FF then). I see bad plays, receivers not getting open, bad decisions. It was so with McNabb, with Grossman, and now with RG3.


He's a good OC, he just doens't mesh well with his father.

His father was always, at most, a 55/45 pass/run caller. He loves to run the ball and set up the play action off of that. Kyle has always been a 60/40 type OC who wants to set up the run by setting up the pass. Its killing the team because we've got a team to run the ball and set up the PA, not pass first.

We've also only got 1 WR who can beat man, and he'll get doubled every time at that point. Reed is also not on the field enough. Quite a few third downs they pulled him off for Paulsen for some reason.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheGreeK1973 wrote:
markrc99 wrote:
Once again there's plenty of blame to go around, but for me the big swing in the game is on the defense. The Broncos came out & looked very much in control on their 1st drive, methodically resulting in a TD. It appeared to me that immediately after De' Hall's INT for six, Manning & Co. completely reasserted command of the game, as if there was never any question, it was only a matter of when. Again they methodically drove the length of the field to score. Then they got the ball back and did it again! After the Redskins went 3 & out & Rocca shanked the punt the Broncos offense needed one play to cover 35 yds for the go ahead touchdown! If that Redskin' defense was truly ever in this thing, this was the stretch of the game to prove it & they were taken apart! I haven't reviewed but it didn't appear to me that the Redskins even tried to force Manning to go over the top. I don't know how many passes he completed for 5 yds or less, but it seemed like 25-30 of them were easy & underneath.


Not saying you are wrong in your assessment, but lets not forget the D got 3 turnovers one being a score. lets not forget RGIII was missing wide open receivers out there. Lets not forget against this D, Dallas and in particular Romo had a career day.

This was totally on the offense with the biggest blame going to RGIII because he couldn't see the field, or understand pocket awareness. He locks into the primary receiver and waits until he gets hit. Denver simply played the run all day long (even so, Morris still run the ball well, so I don't know WTF Kyle was thinking going pass pass pass when Denver tied the game) because lets face it guys. RGIII right now is a bellow average passer. You open up things in your running game if you can consistently hit the 15 to 20 yard passes. He can't right now with any consistency.

Yesterday i was watching the game with a friend of mine and he said something that struck me. When just before half time RGIII didn't see a wide open Morgan in the flat and a wide open Garson going post (Morgan probably scores, Garson definitely scores) but he chose to hit Reed while double teamed for an incomplete pass, he said these are the type of plays that give the defense confidence that your QB is inept. In other words he can't see the field to save his life. Yes we end up scoring a TD on that series after a dumb penalty by the Broncos but its plays like these that put the fear of God in the Defense that they need to protect against the pass. These are the plays RGIII needs to hit consistently to make the run that much viable.

I hope to God I am wrong about this but I am going to say it. RGIII is nothing but a gimmicky QB right now that will need a lot of work to be an NFL viable QB in the future. He may or may not get there.
totally agee. My cousins were both high school star qbs and college qbs and now coach high school football where my parents went to high school, they say he's missing stuff that high schoolers should see.

I really believe RG3 is going to be a great passing qb in 2014, or 2015 but we all underestimated how much missing all of the reps in the offseason would affect RG3's development as a passer and our passing offense and timing overall.

He seriously forces throws which aren't there and misses wide open Wrs for big gains and scores every week.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geronimo wrote:
I have mixed feelings after having watched the game today.

I really liked our team until 10:00 to play in the 3rd quarter. After that, another team with Redskins' uniform came onto the field.

As usual, our defense fights as long as our opponents are leading by 7 or less. As soon as we lead, our defense becomes soft. Why? Do we play prevent defense in 3rd quarter?

That said, I cannot really blame our D. Two INTs (DHall is playing great this year), 1 forced fumble, they contained the Broncos to 7 point until halftime. Yet I got disappointed seeing 3 screen passes turned into TD or big plays. As they say, "fool me once ...".

Offense. It seems that more and more people doubt about our OC. Well, it's time we recognize he is not a good OC. I am saying that since Grossman was our starter (I was not on FF then). I see bad plays, receivers not getting open, bad decisions. It was so with McNabb, with Grossman, and now with RG3.
very well said. Kyle's problem IMO is he's always been pass happy when things start to go bad since he was OC Houston, even if our best two options are the starting and back up running back. We should have just kept it on the ground, even if it was 2nd and 14, Morris never has two negative plays in a row. Run it one more time and I'm sure he'd get it to 3rd and 5 to 8. Then, you throw at that point. If it's incomplete, punt and have the broncos have to go 70/80 yds.
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markrc99


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheGreek1973 wrote: "... lets not forget the D got 3 turnovers one being a score. ... This was totally on the offense with the biggest blame going to RGIII because he couldn't see the field, or understand pocket awareness. He locks into the primary receiver and waits until he gets hit. Denver simply played the run all day long (even so, Morris still run the ball well, so I don't know WTF Kyle was thinking going pass pass pass when Denver tied the game) because lets face it guys. RGIII right now is a below average passer. You open up things in your running game if you can consistently hit the 15 to 20 yard passes. He can't right now with any consistency.

Yesterday I was watching the game with a friend of mine and he said something that struck me. When just before half time RGIII didn't see a wide open Morgan in the flat and a wide open Garson going post (Morgan probably scores, Garson definitely scores) but he chose to hit Reed while double teamed for an incomplete pass, he said these are the type of plays that give the defense confidence that your QB is inept."


I'm seeing it & you're right, Robert Griffin's timing & placement isn't what it was last year. Although I think many of us felt he played much better last week. My point was that it appeared to me that Hall's INT raised Manning and that offense & they proceeded to take the Redskin defense apart. Peyton Manning actually committed four turnovers if memory serves, but the instant he became pissed off, none of it looked the same... not even remotely. I don't know if you saw the earlier game between Detroit & Dallas, it was similar in that the Lions just kept turning the ball over. That is until they took their game to another level. If that Redskin defense really does belong on the same field with Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers they have a funny way of proving it. However, I will say I was disappointed they didn't force Manning to make the tougher throws downfield. Perhaps they wanted to & couldn't? His deep ball often hangs, yet the Redskins gave him a lot of easy targets underneath. While I agree De' Hall is worth the money they're paying him now, his INT had more to do with the rec'r falling down on a timing route. If you can take a second look you'll notice that Hall never turns & runs, this wasn't about his ability to diagnose & close on the ball. Hall is in fact out in front of this thing, he sells out to take away the quick slant & happens to guess right. Even if the rec'r maintains his balance it's likely Hall breaks the play up. Extremely poor read by Peyton Manning, one you wouldn't expect from him. Offenses are fully aware of Hall's tendency to take chances, but to this point they haven't always used his aggressiveness to their advantage. We might be wrong in assuming he's playing better.

To your latter point I went back and reviewed the play you mentioned. The offense has tinkered with that old wishbone formation in recent weeks and WR Josh Morgan was initially lined up in the z-slot. He comes in motion to complete the set & it's only after the ball is snapped and faked to Morris that he reverses his field, swinging wide of the penetrating DE and is open in the flat. But he's like 10 yds deep and in fact draws the attention of the OLB & even a backside DB (trailing the LB). The Broncos had their LBs cheating to the weak side and this OLB initially lined up where you'd normally find the MLB. Perhaps it's these crossing defenders that have you believing Jordan Reed was double-covered? He was in man coverage vs the CB who would've likely covered Morgan had he run a rte upfield. The TE was Griffin's initial read & the reason the ball was thrown was because Reed was open! This explains why he didn't come off his 1st option and look for Garcon or Morgan. The problem was Griffin's placement, he doesn't give his TE a chance to catch the thing. It's unbelievable how poor his placement has been at times. It's too bad because you're right, there was broken coverage and Garcon was wide open behind it. The question is what was Griffin's post snap adjustment if his TE draws the CB? Remember, they haven't run this set much so perhaps the matchup wasn't anticipated? It's true that basement bucket execution makes a crap defense feel better but if your TE can beat CB coverage what does that do for their confidence? All that was required to finish that play was just some semblance of accuracy by an NFL QB.

To the broader question, what is more difficult to resolve (if it is the case), is that defenses are defending the read/option far better than they were last year. Griffin's read doesn't appear nearly as simple as we've seen him keep the ball a number of times, only to find himself surrounded. Even when he does gain yards, he often has blockers out in front of it. That whole deal where he simply fakes it to Morris and the entire back side of the defense repeatedly collapses seems to be over. The option was the key compliment to their stretch play. The two made play-action very effective, which dominated their passing attack. It's as if they can't do anything unless Griffin can run uncontested for huge chunks of yardage. It's like they've lost their identity and they're struggling to reestablish or reinvent it. Unfortunately, while they've struggled they've gotten zero help from the defense & STs. Also, what is Griffin's command of the offense when he steps to the line of scrimmage? Is it that of the elite QBs? Same goes for his receivers. It appears they're not always running the best routes vs the coverage or making the appropriate post snap adjustment. I should note that I'm only aware of several such examples. While this play may not be the best example, most would agree that Griffin isn't performing at his former level. I'm keen now to review Griffin & his rec'rs. When Cousins came into the game he completed 3 or 4 passes in a row to stationary targets underneath the coverage. Eventually they caught on and jumped one.
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Geronimo


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What went wrong? OL? Play calling? Rg3 reading defense? WRs not getting separation?

http://www.hogshaven.com/2013/10/30/5045354/hazards-huddle-drop-back-passing-woes-vs-denver-broncos

All of them ...
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geronimo wrote:
What went wrong? OL? Play calling? Rg3 reading defense? WRs not getting separation?

http://www.hogshaven.com/2013/10/30/5045354/hazards-huddle-drop-back-passing-woes-vs-denver-broncos

All of them ...
Definitely. It's never just one persons fault. It's the entire group collectively.

It's like when Garçon was saying "we just suck at passing right now" he wasn't talking about just one person, he was talking about the collective offense.
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kcvet


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

you won't see Fox on the donk sideline. he's out with heart problems
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