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Josh Gordon trade rumors heating up
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Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 23206
Location: Parkville, MD
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
mistakebytehlak wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
mistakebytehlak wrote:

he's on pace for 1400 yards at age 22.

thats why he's worth more


582 yards in and only 8 games to go.

Where did you get 1400?


582 through 6 games...


Except his suspension actually does come into play here because he misses time for his own decisions which is a downfall of his.

But regardless, even 6 games is 1552 Smile
But if you do it for 14 games, it's 1358 yards. A bit shy of 1400, but not bad for 14 games.


Ah, that's where the math difference is.
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unfsaint


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where's the risk? I don't get it. It's not like he is under a huge contract. If he screws up...cut him. If he doesn't screw up...you have a future All-pro. Somebody help me out here. In today's NFL where elite WRs are a premium...a trade does not make any sense.
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StRawz11


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

unfsaint wrote:
Where's the risk? I don't get it. It's not like he is under a huge contract. If he screws up...cut him. If he doesn't screw up...you have a future All-pro. Somebody help me out here. In today's NFL where elite WRs are a premium...a trade does not make any sense.


You lose that high pick for nothing if he messes up again. Pretty huge risk there. Sure it's great if he doesn't mess up, but there is always that chance
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Estonianzulu


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

StRawz11 wrote:
unfsaint wrote:
Where's the risk? I don't get it. It's not like he is under a huge contract. If he screws up...cut him. If he doesn't screw up...you have a future All-pro. Somebody help me out here. In today's NFL where elite WRs are a premium...a trade does not make any sense.


You lose that high pick for nothing if he messes up again. Pretty huge risk there. Sure it's great if he doesn't mess up, but there is always that chance


But its not really any different from using a high pick on a player. With Gordon you risk he falls of the wagon and gets caught and is out for a year.

With the pick, you risk that the player never develops
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candyman93


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was suspended two games.

- 15th in overall rec yds with 582yds
- 2nd in yds/catch at 18.2 (behind only Torrey Smith)
- 4th in yds/game with 97yds (trailing only Megatron, Julio and Blackmon)

He's 22 years old and in his 2nd season. I think banking on production from a 2nd rounder is almost as risky as hoping Josh Gordon doesn't screw up.
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Flaccomania


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This situation reminds me a LOT of how I felt in 2009 with Gaither.

He was 24 years old, coming off a great season and had put himself in top 10 consideration at LT. I was arguing that since we had Oher, we should move him and argued my tail off that he was worth a 1st round pick. The main reasons being his age (young), his upside (high) and what he had already shown (top 10). I argued non-stop about how if he had played like that in college instead of the NFL, he'd be a top 10 pick in that same draft and therefore he was worth a first. I acknowledged that due to his character issues (known for being lazy, but he hadn't been at that point) that it was more likely to be a late 1st, but a 1st nonetheless. In the end, he clearly wasn't worth that and wasn't even worth a 2nd (which, IIRC, was what we were looking for).

I think Gordon is in a very similar boat and likely won't go anywhere.
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candyman93


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peter King suggested trading Gordon to the Pats for a 4th. He'd have to be doing this before I even thought of considering that:

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DontTazeMeBro


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

candyman93 wrote:
Peter King suggested trading Gordon to the Pats for a 4th. He'd have to be doing this before I even thought of considering that:



Brady and the Patriots are struggling. The rest of the league needs to fix that.

Seriously Id hate the Browns forever.
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candyman93


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DontTazeMeBro wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
Peter King suggested trading Gordon to the Pats for a 4th. He'd have to be doing this before I even thought of considering that:



Brady and the Patriots are struggling. The rest of the league needs to fix that.

Seriously Id hate the Browns forever.


Might as well toss in Jordan Cameron for a 2017 5th rounder too Laughing
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NextBigThing


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

candyman93 wrote:
Peter King suggested trading Gordon to the Pats for a 4th. He'd have to be doing this before I even thought of considering that:



Laughing Laughing Laughing

Yes, trade away a budding super star for a late 4th round pick.

Wasn't a fourth all Randy cost us...? Wink Very Happy
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Sciz


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

candyman93 wrote:
Peter King suggested trading Gordon to the Pats for a 4th. He'd have to be doing this before I even thought of considering that:
And John Clayton proposed Gordon to the Pats for Mallett and a 2nd.

How about we just call it good and not trade Gordon to the Pats? Laughing
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The LBC


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

unfsaint wrote:
Where's the risk? I don't get it. It's not like he is under a huge contract. If he screws up...cut him. If he doesn't screw up...you have a future All-pro. Somebody help me out here. In today's NFL where elite WRs are a premium...a trade does not make any sense.

The thing is in today's NFL elite WR's aren't a premium, they're a luxury - especially if you have an above-average QB. And luxuries aren't something that you are so willing to pay a premium risk on.
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candyman93


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sciz wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
Peter King suggested trading Gordon to the Pats for a 4th. He'd have to be doing this before I even thought of considering that:
And John Clayton proposed Gordon to the Pats for Mallett and a 2nd.

How about we just call it good and not trade Gordon to the Pats? Laughing


Deal Laughing

Me no want Mallett
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sdrawkcab321


Joined: 23 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

candyman93 wrote:
Sciz wrote:
candyman93 wrote:
Peter King suggested trading Gordon to the Pats for a 4th. He'd have to be doing this before I even thought of considering that:
And John Clayton proposed Gordon to the Pats for Mallett and a 2nd.

How about we just call it good and not trade Gordon to the Pats? Laughing


Deal Laughing

Me no want Mallett


Me love mallett but think we can get him without trading Gordon
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The LBC


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

candyman93 wrote:
Was suspended two games.

- 15th in overall rec yds with 582yds
- 2nd in yds/catch at 18.2 (behind only Torrey Smith)
- 4th in yds/game with 97yds (trailing only Megatron, Julio and Blackmon)

He's 22 years old and in his 2nd season. I think banking on production from a 2nd rounder is almost as risky as hoping Josh Gordon doesn't screw up.

Just for sake of argument, these are the WR's selected in the 2nd round over the past 5 years (I started at 2012 and went 5 years back from there because of the rarity that rookie receivers contribute much - it's almost always a 2nd or 3rd year breakout unless you're spending a Top 10 pick on a WR prospect actually worth a Top 10 pick):

Alshon Jeffrey
Reuben Randle
Ryan Broyles
Stephen Hill
Brian Quick
Titus Young
Torrey Smith
Greg Little
Randall Cobb
Arrelious Benn
Golden Tate
Brian Robiskie
Mohammed Massoquoi
Donnie Avery
Jordy Nelson
Devin Thomas
James Hardy
Eddie Royal
Jerome Simpson
DeSean Jackson
Malcolm Kelly
Limas Sweed (pick yourself up off the floor, Blaq!)
Dexter Jackson
Sidney Rice
Dwayne Jarrett
Steve "USC" Smith

So yes, while there are certainly busts (as there are in every round of the draft), every single year has shown us that you can - with proper scouting and player development - find at least one player in the 2nd round of the draft with the capability of putting up similar production (especially if factoring in teams like, for instance, the Patriots, Lions, Niners - those just being the names I've seen kicked around - having better starting QB's than Hoyer/Campbell/Weeden).

Among the 1st and 2nd tier of receivers in the league: Vincent Jackson, DeSean Jackson, Jordy Nelson, Torrey Smith, arguably Randall Cobb, formerly Greg Jennings (who has since dropped off, but was a 2nd round pick all the same), Anquan Boldin... all 2nd round picks.

Then you've got guys who are having their breakouts this season and certainly project to be able to put up similar output moving forward: Alshon Jeffrey, Reuben Randle

Guys that aren't big names, but have been consistently productive throughout their careers - particularly when partnered with above-average QB's: Jerome Simpson, Sidney Rice (at least when healthy), Golden Tate, and you could include - if grading in terms of pure productivity when they were actually on the field, while injuries or their own character stupidity kept them off - Titus Young, Steve Smith, and possibly even Ryan Broyles.

And that's excluding the productive 3rd round WR's that have been picked up, albeit at a lower frequency (though again, it's a full round later in the picking order): Steve "Carolina" Smith, Mike Wallace, Andre Roberts, James Jones, Mike Williams (very early 4th rounder), Eric Decker, Cecil Shorts (4th rounder), T.Y. Hilton, Marvin Jones (5th rounder).

What it ultimately comes down to though is that coaches and front office folks would much rather trust in what they can control than what they can't. They can control development and coaching up players. The can influence, but ultimately don't have control over whether a player repeats dumb acts from his past and makes himself ineligible to play because of suspension.
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