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Leon Hall Out For Season
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theJ


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johndeere1707 wrote:
The main problem with our future at CB is that both Ghee and Kirkpatrick have been made of glass. A few games ago Kirkpatrick made a great open field tackle the got injured. I just don't trust him to stay durable. And Ghee is 10x worse. We really need at least 2 more corners in next years draft

Don't get me wrong, i totally get that. But what happens if Dre and Ghee play well down the stretch? Do you kick them to the curb just because they've been hurt before? In that scenario, the team is stuck between a rock and a hard place because you're trying to build a team that plays consistently well...and part of that is staying on the field. At the same time, you can't just discard someone who's playing well because they've been hurt in the past. Not without getting something for them.

The only guy i could see them moving on from is Ghee, and that's because he's not under contract next year.

Newman (signed through 2014)
Hall (signed through 2015)
Kirkpatrick (signed through 2015)
Ghee (FA next year)
Adam Jones (signed through 2015)

Can't see any of those guys under contract being cut. They'll probably concentrate on other areas of the team. I'm speaking realistically, not what i would want to see happen, or what would happen in Madden. Newman, Hall, Kirkpatrick and Jones at a minimum will be back next year.

LondonBengal wrote:
Terrence Newman isn't getting any younger

That's everyone's favorite saying, but truthfully he could probably play another 2-3 years or more at the level he's playing now. It's not like he's a burner and he's going to lose speed. If he plays sound, fundamental football he could be good for a while yet.
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LondonBengal


Joined: 07 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheJ wrote:
That's everyone's favorite saying, but truthfully he could probably play another 2-3 years or more at the level he's playing now. It's not like he's a burner and he's going to lose speed. If he plays sound, fundamental football he could be good for a while yet.


Agree 'J', but under 'normal' circumstances, you would look to draft a guy in 2013 to replace a starter whose contract runs out in 2014, especially if that guy is 35. Don't get me wrong, Newman has played well under Zimmer, and has certainly exceeded my expectations.

All the more important for Kirkpatrick to step up. I'd like to see Dre nail his first INT; that would sure boost his confidence. He certainly showed up in DET he has the coverage skills, he just needs more reps, and we'll see how he does Sunday evening. Hopefully some magic dust can rub off of 'Coach Hall'.........
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theJ


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LondonBengal wrote:
he just needs more reps

That's an underrated and under-talked about point. Most guys don't show their full ability until they're given big shot. Dre has had little opportunity to show what he can do in this league outside of preseason games. Now we'll find out.

The only play i really noticed Dre on was the back shoulder touchdown to Calvin (i believe he was in coverage). That was actually pretty damn good coverage, but it was just a better throw and adjustment by Stafford and Calvin. If that was anyone else running the route, the QB probably doesn't attempt it because he was all over him.

I'm optimistic, as you all can tell. I'm not ready to say "we NEED to draft a corner" quite yet. I admit and accept the possibility of that having to happen. But it's still October, so it's not a done deal yet.
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THE DUKE


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ideally, Dre steps up and takes a starting CB spot, Hall is back at 100% by training camp, and we can make Newman a hybrid CB/S next year, a role I think he could excel in given his knowledge and increasingly limited physical abilities.
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LondonBengal


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

theJ wrote:
Dre has had little opportunity to show what he can do in this league outside of preseason games. Now we'll find out.
Sure will. The times I've heard Zim or Carrier talk about Dre, they've said he'll be 'fine', which suggests they like his basic skills, he just needs to get healthy. (Was it the Cowboys pre-season game where he got mauled by Bryant I think ?)

theJ wrote:
The only play i really noticed Dre on was the back shoulder touchdown to Calvin (i believe he was in coverage). That was actually pretty damn good coverage, but it was just a better throw and adjustment by Stafford and Calvin. If that was anyone else running the route, the QB probably doesn't attempt it because he was all over him.
Right. Maybe only Stafford or a couple of other QB's try that throw at all given the tight coverage Dre showed.

theJ wrote:
I'm optimistic, as you all can tell. I'm not ready to say "we NEED to draft a corner" quite yet. I admit and accept the possibility of that having to happen. But it's still October, so it's not a done deal yet.
Agree 'J'. Right now, there's a reasonable argument that we could draft any position high next April, including QB if 'red' doesn't play well here on in. Injuries are as always a crucial factor.

However, if the draft was next week, CB is right near the top of the list IMO
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Anonymous3


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THE DUKE wrote:
Ideally, Dre steps up and takes a starting CB spot, Hall is back at 100% by training camp, and we can make Newman a hybrid CB/S next year, a role I think he could excel in given his knowledge and increasingly limited physical abilities.


The Nate Clements effect. And I would be quite happy with that. Hopefully in that scenario, we still take a CB early to keep Jones on his toes and provide adequate depth.
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J-ALL-DAY


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not even joking, but it is likely we release Asomugha to bring up Wright, so he is the guy you need to go after. His coverage skills in the first three games were very sharp as he didn't allow a catch in two of the games. He just got hurt against STL and Brock took off which made him useless for us. And let's be real, you guys love bringing in our ex-players LOL.
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LondonBengal


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J-ALL-DAY wrote:
Not even joking, but it is likely we release Asomugha to bring up Wright, so he is the guy you need to go after. His coverage skills in the first three games were very sharp as he didn't allow a catch in two of the games. He just got hurt against STL and Brock took off which made him useless for us. And let's be real, you guys love bringing in our ex-players LOL.
Marvin Lewis has already said that Leon Halls' replacement is coming from 'within the building'. So don't look for Nate Clements or any other FA signings yet........
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MrCincinnati


Joined: 10 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

theJ wrote:
MrCincinnati wrote:
As for McCalebb, if he can't play CB yet, fine then don't bring him up. But the team must sign another CB. 5 guys will not be enough. I assume they will just go with the 5 guys they have right now this week, but in the future they will need more.

You may or may not be right. Hard to say how many corners they need. The need is lessened slightly because Crocker, while listed at safety, will play nickle corner.

Last time Hall tore his Achilles, the Bengals finished the season with 4 corners. They also made the playoffs behind a strong defense. So who really knows for sure?

I don't think they'll panic for one. As long as Dre and Ghee stay healthy, i'm not sure they'll sign anyone. But, they've not proven to stay healthy before.


The problem with finishing with 4 CB's like they did in 2011 though......well it didn't work out. Jones was struggling alot that year, Clements was getting burned, and Kelly Jennings wasnt capable of being a starter. Not to mention not all 3 guys could stay healthy so I remember a couple of times, they had to put there S's as nickles which really hurt them. Right now the experience isn't there. Newman will be fine if healthy. Jones you never know sometimes. Kirkpatrick has alot to prove though. Ghee can't stay healthy, and Lewis Harris is depth at best but with no experience. If this week goes bad, they could be looking for some insurance there.
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TheVillain112


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

J-ALL-DAY wrote:
Not even joking, but it is likely we release Asomugha to bring up Wright, so he is the guy you need to go after. His coverage skills in the first three games were very sharp as he didn't allow a catch in two of the games. He just got hurt against STL and Brock took off which made him useless for us. And let's be real, you guys love bringing in our ex-players LOL.


The problem is the ramp up time needed for our system. It's why guys like Chris Crocker always end up back on the team. Adam Jones said recently it takes about a year to a year and a half until your comfortable in Zimmer's secondary because they do a lot of unique things.

Shaun Prater would have been perfect for us who was waived recently, but the Vikings had a higher waiver claim and got him before we could.

What I expect going forward is: Newman, Adam Jones, Dre, Crocker and Ghee as our top 5 corners. With most likely Chris Lewis-Harris as the 6th.

Losing Hall really sucks. As long as our LB corps can stay healthy we'll be Ok but if Rey or Vontaze get hurt, our zone coverage will be completely screwed...
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chris00cm wrote:
Lavelle Hawkins figures he's already cut, so YOLO.
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J-ALL-DAY


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fair enough, but even without Hall I still expect this secondary to play well. Zimmer is a magician and has some of the best designed schemes in the league. It is funny how I think you guys are playing way believe your potential and the team is likely to be 6-2 Laughing .

So that is good news, but in the AFC the only team losing Hall will hurt against will be the Broncos.
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