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Do you trust Rick Spielman to draft the next QB?
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Do you trust Rick Spielman to draft the next QB?
Yes
60%
 60%  [ 30 ]
No
22%
 22%  [ 11 ]
Depends on Freeman
18%
 18%  [ 9 ]
Total Votes : 50

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Purple Faithful


Joined: 11 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:47 pm    Post subject: Do you trust Rick Spielman to draft the next QB? Reply with quote

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I'm curious why Spielman gets a pass. AJ Freeley, Sage Rosenfels, Jay Fiedler, Brian Griese, are some names from his Miami days. Not sure which are his fault, but, ultimately, they did not draft a QB worth drafting. He has to get blame, doesn't he? Scott Pioli got less time in KC and got the axe when they couldn't get a QB. Which roster is better? Pioli's chiefs or Spielman's Vikings? GM's are judged by the QB, imo.

I would think he needs Freeman to do well to save his reputation. Fairly or not. Your thoughts:
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Lil Uno


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spielman was only been in charge of 3 drafts is whole career. Once in 2004 with the Dolphins, and twice with us. Each have been fairly impressive.

More to the question, I'm still not sure. The organization reached bad for Christian Ponder and kept insisting he was right where he needed to be throughout the last three years. However, I'm willing to give him another shot. Spielman is a good talent evaluator and is more than capable staying on to rebuild this roster.
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[UMN]


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Spielman has done a great job since he took over. Full confidence.
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PeteyPercyPonde


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It really matters on the talent available IMO. How many above average QB's are there in the NFL? 15? 17? That's like 1-2 successful QB's in each draft class for the last 15 years. For all we know there isn't a long term starting QB in the draft this year. I think it also depends on the coaching. I do trust Spielman, I don't think you can hastily judge him on QB's drafted and grade his resume on that though.
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Purple Faithful


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PeteyPercyPonde wrote:
It really matters on the talent available IMO. How many above average QB's are there in the NFL? 15? 17? That's like 1-2 successful QB's in each draft class for the last 15 years. For all we know there isn't a long term starting QB in the draft this year. I think it also depends on the coaching. I do trust Spielman, I don't think you can hastily judge him on QB's drafted and grade his resume on that though.
Well, what about passing on Kaepernick, Dalton, Russell Wilson, Cousins, Geno Smith, etc? Are they not all better than Ponder?
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Purple Faithful


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[UMN] wrote:
I think Spielman has done a great job since he took over. Full confidence.
Isn't this year in danger of being the second year under his tenor flirting with the Steckel era? When have we been this bad before? 3 years of spielman in full control, two years among top 3 worst all-time for the Vikings? I suppose Freeman can turn it around, but looked like a lay-down last week. giants are at home, showing effort, extra time to prepare,...this week could be telling. Spielman should survive how many head coaches? 3? Why didn't we want Tannehill? Because it takes 3 years to assess talent? With the most important position, we have no real completion and we have one of the worst QB's in the league. Brees/Rivers, Flynn/Wilson, RG3/Cousins, Smith/flirt w/Peyton/Kaepernick.
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Purple Faithful


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lil Uno wrote:
Spielman was only been in charge of 3 drafts is whole career. Once in 2004 with the Dolphins, and twice with us. Each have been fairly impressive.

More to the question, I'm still not sure. The organization reached bad for Christian Ponder and kept insisting he was right where he needed to be throughout the last three years. However, I'm willing to give him another shot. Spielman is a good talent evaluator and is more than capable staying on to rebuild this roster.
2004, when Rick went for Veron Carey instead of drafting Vince Wilfork? Trading up with the Vikings to get that tackle? Not sure I agree, and who was the QB? trade up for Roethlesberger, maybe? Try JP Losman? Miami didn't have a QB, did they?

Miami Dolphins 2004 Draft
Round 1 (#19): Vernon Carey, OG/OT, Miami
Round 4 (#102): Will Poole, CB, USC
Round 5 (#160): Tony Bua, SS, Arkansas
Round 7 (#174): Rex Hadnot, C, Houston
Round 7 (#221): Tony Pape, OG, Michigan
Round 7 (#222): Derrick Pope, ILB, Alabama
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vike daddy


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Purple Faithful wrote:
Well, what about passing on Kaepernick, Dalton, Russell Wilson, Cousins, Geno Smith, etc? Are they not all better than Ponder?

didn't 20+ teams pass on Aaron Rodgers?

maybe all those GM's should be fired.
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rpmwr19


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Purple Faithful wrote:
PeteyPercyPonde wrote:
It really matters on the talent available IMO. How many above average QB's are there in the NFL? 15? 17? That's like 1-2 successful QB's in each draft class for the last 15 years. For all we know there isn't a long term starting QB in the draft this year. I think it also depends on the coaching. I do trust Spielman, I don't think you can hastily judge him on QB's drafted and grade his resume on that though.
Well, what about passing on Kaepernick, Dalton, Russell Wilson, Cousins, Geno Smith, etc? Are they not all better than Ponder?

Kaepernick and Dalton are, in hindsight, likely better than Ponder, but neither has done anything substantial over the course of more than a season.

Anybody in the drafts after Ponder can be thrown out the window IMO as we weren't going to draft a QB. Spielman says it takes three years to evaluate a QB and this was Ponder's third year.

He's 0-1 on first round QB picks, but given his recent drafts I have confidence in him, but also healthy skepticism.
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arKnaD7


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Purple Faithful wrote:
Lil Uno wrote:
Spielman was only been in charge of 3 drafts is whole career. Once in 2004 with the Dolphins, and twice with us. Each have been fairly impressive.

More to the question, I'm still not sure. The organization reached bad for Christian Ponder and kept insisting he was right where he needed to be throughout the last three years. However, I'm willing to give him another shot. Spielman is a good talent evaluator and is more than capable staying on to rebuild this roster.
2004, when Rick went for Veron Carey instead of drafting Vince Wilfork? Trading up with the Vikings to get that tackle? Not sure I agree, and who was the QB? trade up for Roethlesberger, maybe? Try JP Losman? Miami didn't have a QB, did they?

Miami Dolphins 2004 Draft
Round 1 (#19): Vernon Carey, OG/OT, Miami
Round 4 (#102): Will Poole, CB, USC
Round 5 (#160): Tony Bua, SS, Arkansas
Round 7 (#174): Rex Hadnot, C, Houston
Round 7 (#221): Tony Pape, OG, Michigan
Round 7 (#222): Derrick Pope, ILB, Alabama

If you play the "should have drafted 'player x' game", every GM would be fired instantly.

Also, Losman did nothing during his career. Carey was at least a solid player for a long time. Certainly better than Losman.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

vike daddy wrote:
Purple Faithful wrote:
Well, what about passing on Kaepernick, Dalton, Russell Wilson, Cousins, Geno Smith, etc? Are they not all better than Ponder?

didn't 20+ teams pass on Aaron Rodgers?

maybe all those GM's should be fired.


Trent Baalke was with the 49ers when they took Alex Smith over Aaron Rodgers. You know what Baalke's title was in 2005, Wetsern Region Scout. How did he miss that one?! Eventually he got promoted to GM and is now regarded as one of the best in the league.
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Purplexing


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He's done well with most other positions drafted.

Perhaps it's a problem with the player, or coaches, not the GM?

What about hiring a special draft guru just to make QB pick? Then Spielman takes over and drafts non-QBs?

I think it was Yogi Berra who said, or should have said "Hindsight is.... always in the rear-view mirror."

If a GM should be able to make ALL the right picks, so should a football fan on a msg board. Which of us has perfectly forecast the right player(s) to pick, despite what picks were actually made? By 'right players', I mean players who turned out to be good players over a lengthy career. And if perfection in forecasts is a reasonable benchmark, which person should replace Spielman as a better drafter?


Last edited by Purplexing on Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Bodysuit Man


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As long as he's not reaching for one like with Ponder I'm fine with it. BPA is the winning draft strategy.

Now, who is in charge of hiring the new HC? Whoever hired the last two needs to be kept out of the equation this time.
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Purplexing


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bodysuit Man wrote:
As long as he's not reaching for one like with Ponder I'm fine with it. BPA is the winning draft strategy.

Now, who is in charge of hiring the new HC? Whoever hired the last two needs to be kept out of the equation this time.


Wasn't Frazier hired because he was on staff, might have been cheap for his first year or two, and someone who the players liked a lot?

If so, players shouldn't have any say in the matter. But that's moot if no current coach would replace Frazier.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bodysuit Man wrote:
As long as he's not reaching for one like with Ponder I'm fine with it. BPA is the winning draft strategy.

Now, who is in charge of hiring the new HC? Whoever hired the last two needs to be kept out of the equation this time.


Ponder wouldnt have been viewed as a reach in hindsight if he turned out well, it would have been viewed as a great pick. Just like Rodgers falling to GB, the pick was criticized by several draft experts, but since Rodgers turned out well, its a brilliant pick.

I would guess that there will be a pretty good chance that if MN drafts a QB in 2014, it will be viewed as a reach simply because of where I see MN drafting 7-12. In that range, most of the top QBs will be off the board and youre likely looking at projects with high upside.
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