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Ward4HOF


Joined: 11 Apr 2011
Posts: 4058
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 4:54 pm    Post subject: College Mid-Season Mocks Reply with quote

Sorry 43M, but it's time to let the mock season start!

A couple of mocks based upon the following assumptions:

- We end the season somewhere between a 5-11 record and a 7-9 record, leaving us with drafting between 6th and 14th.
- We receive a 3rd and 5th Rd comp selections for the loss of Wallace and Lewis. Have no idea how our other losses/gains will cancel each other out, but possibility for another 7th Rd comp as well, but assuming not.
- Sanders departs as a FA. Cotchery doesn’t come back.
- Ike stays for another year and/or Curtis Brown improves. Gay retained as Nickel.
- Foote retires/Spence comes back able to play somewhere during season.
- Clark retires.
- Hood departs, leaving us w/ Woods, Heyward, McClendon, Fangupo, Nick Williams. McClendon is NOT the answer at NT and moves to DE.

Which, if any, do you all like?

1 – LT Cyrus Kouandjio (‘Bama), 6’5” 310. Had a rough first game this year, but has fared much better since. Probably the 3rd LT taken after Matthews/Lewan, which should be available for us.
2 – NT DaQuan Jones (Penn St), 6’3” 320. Body able to carry more weight and base/strength that can occupy multiple interior OL.
3 – (comp) WR Antwan Goodley (Baylor), 5’9.5” 225 (projected 4.4 speed). Built like a RB, but fast with good hands.
4 – WR Kelvin Benjamin (FSU), 6’4” 235 (projected 4.6 speed). WR in a TEs body. If he declares, may go even higher than the 4th.
5 – TE Jacob Pederson (Wisc), 6’4” 245. Good receiver; decent blocker.
5 – (comp) QB Tom Savage (Pitt), 6’4.5” 230. Has the talent to be developed, but raw.
6 – CB Keon Lyn (Syracuse), 6’ 1” 205 (projected 4.45 speed). Knee injury/surgery, out for season. 3rd/4th Rd talent that will drop due to injury, IMO.
7 – S Aldon Darby (ASU), 5’11” 195 (projected 4.5 speed). Rising prospect, but size limitations.

or...

1 – NT Louis Nix III (ND), 6’2” 345. Would hate to spend another 1st on the DL, but McClendon just ain’t cutting it at NT…better fit at DE, IMO.
2 – LT James Hurst (NC), 6’7” 310. Might not even be available here, but probably the 5th/6th ranked OT when all said and done and may slip. If not…
Alternate – LT Cameron Erving (FSU), 6’5” 320. Been playing very well this year and will probably end up in early 2nd if solid season continues.
3 – (comp) TE Xavier Grimble (USC) 6’5” 255 (projected 4.6 speed). Rising prospect with nice size/speed combo.
4 – WR Ty Montgomery (Stanford) 6’2” 215 (projected 4.5 speed) (KR). Thickly built WR with respectable speed that probably will go earlier than this, but as of now, is about the lower end of his draft projection.
5 – CB Bennett Jackson (ND) 6’1” 185 (projected 4.5 speed). Tall, lanky CB that seems to fit the type we normally consider.
5 (comp) – WR Shaq Evans (UCLA) 6’1” 210 (projected 4.5 speed) (PR). Hundley’s primary WR and has PR skills as well.
6 – ILB Chris Borland (Wisc), 6’ 245 (projected 4.7 speed) Thumper, plain and simple.
7 – P Pat O’Donnell (Miami). Mesko is not the long-term answer.
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kysteeler


Joined: 03 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that your off season is pretty realistic, but I think Cotchery comes back. We would just be too depleted at WR to not resign him.

I think a lot depends on if Beach pans out at LT (which I'm sure a lot of ppl will say hes just a back-up, but after settling in he played well against the Jets).

Starters- DL and WR become your main areas of concern off the bat with your offseason. If the LT position doesn't pan out that as well.

Depth- CB to replace Taylor, OG/OC, S, TE, and DL

As far as addressing positions you do a good job. I like the 2nd mock better as I think the LT position gets worked out.
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chrisororke


Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 504
PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anything with OL/DL in the first round is an immediate dislike. You're not going to get better with that. They sit for the first year and I don't even think this team is close to winning. Rebuttal being plug and play at LT, probably sustained

I like Nix over Kouandijo but it's like with him and Tuitt on the DL shouldn't it be the best DL ever. Plenty of other guys later, Hageman from Minnesota is a good DE, but of course that is DE, not NT. I'm just looking for anything formidable on the DL at this point. Anthony Johnson, kinda like a 3 gap DT.

Big house McCullers is the only NT I can think of for this class outside of Nix. I'm just not sure on him yet
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chrisororke


Joined: 14 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kysteeler wrote:
I think that your off season is pretty realistic, but I think Cotchery comes back. We would just be too depleted at WR to not resign him.

I think a lot depends on if Beach pans out at LT (which I'm sure a lot of ppl will say hes just a back-up, but after settling in he played well against the Jets).

Starters- DL and WR become your main areas of concern off the bat with your offseason. If the LT position doesn't pan out that as well.

Depth- CB to replace Taylor, OG/OC, S, TE, and DL

As far as addressing positions you do a good job. I like the 2nd mock better as I think the LT position gets worked out.


I like Beachum as one of the five. Probably not a LT, he looks so small in the lockeroom vid on steelers.com. Of course quick feet makes up for that
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont want an LT in the 2nd round. If we cant get one of the top guys, I see no point in wasting another 2nd round pick on LT. Id rather give Adams another year.

Nix is overrated as hell. As much as I like Jarvis Jones, I still wish we couldve gotten Star Lotuleilei. There are alot of quality OLB prospects in this years draft.

And please...no more smurf WRs. If it was a special talent, okay...but otherwise we need some bigger bodies.

And why would we draft another QB in the late rounds? Im not big on Jones, but Id give him another year at least.

Tom Savage? IN THE 5th??? I wouldnt even touch him as a UDFA at this point.
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JustPlainNasty


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nix is worth the pick.

I'm not a fan of Kuandjo and see him as an early to mid 2nd round pick that will probably go early to late 20's.

I am no where near a fan of James Hurst and see him as a 5th round or later type pick.

DaQuan Jones is a nice player but I dont see him as a true NT and at this point 2nd rd seems high.

Cameron Irving has more talent and ability than Hurst.

Grimble is a good thought.
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CKSteeler


Joined: 17 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm torn right now. The OL situation has pretty much tanked the season. No other factor has contributed so much to the 4 losses. But they've already put so many resources into it that its painful to have to throw the rare premium pick the team gets to fix it.

Fixing the OL cuts down on turnovers and helps the team get more out of Bell. That's another bonus. Until the OL improves it won't matter how good Bell is or isn't. The team won't be maximizing his ability.

This team needs playmakers. Guys who will score points, or create splash plays on defense.
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Ward4HOF


Joined: 11 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL, 43, I figured you jump on the three aspects you did....small WR, 2nd Rd OL, and Savage. I will argue though that just because Adams and Gilbert haven't worked out as 2nd Rd OL, doesn't mean another 2nd Rd guy won't work out. I mean, we had Starks who was a 3rd Rd guy and Marvel Smith was a 2nd guy. And yes, they weren't "world beaters", but they were serviceable.

I know Goodley is a smurf, but I like him, and he just had an 11/182/2 Td day! I do agree though, with what you are saying about larger WRs. And Savage, I think, is a guy who can be developed. I think he has most of the "tools" necessary to be an NFL QB. Maybe Jones will develop, though.

@JPN--Wow, Hurst is thought of to be a potential 1st Rd guy, but you think he's late rounder? I do like Erving better as well, and think he might sneak into the 1st Rd if he declares, but he'd probably be better off waiting until 2015 and potentially be selected top 10. What don't you like about Kouandjio?

@ ororke -- I get what you are saying about DL/OL, but NT/LT are critical needs, IMO. Unless Adams or Beachum somehow develop into studs over the next 10 games, we need to do something about the LT spot. And that's fine if you don't like Nix, so long as we get a true NT somehow, because to me, the McClendon-at-NT experiment needs to end. If we grab Mike Evans or Sammy Watkins in the 1st, then I'm all for it, but I just don't see Colbert taking a WR in the 1st, and none of the top TEs or CBs excite me much this next class, so who else would you take?
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:52 pm    Post subject: Re: College Mid-Season Mocks Reply with quote

Ward4HOF wrote:
Sorry 43M, but it's time to let the mock season start!

A couple of mocks based upon the following assumptions:

- We end the season somewhere between a 5-11 record and a 7-9 record, leaving us with drafting between 6th and 14th.
agreed
Quote:
- We receive a 3rd and 5th Rd comp selections for the loss of Wallace and Lewis. Have no idea how our other losses/gains will cancel each other out, but possibility for another 7th Rd comp as well, but assuming not.
agree
Quote:
- Sanders departs as a FA. Cotchery doesn’t come back.
disagree. Sanders is an acceptable #2, but if we could get an upgrade I'd do it and make Sanders the #3. My hope is Wheaton comes on the second half of the year like Brown and Wallace in their rookies years and the steelers don't address the position with an expensive FA or high in the draft. Moye can be #4, a Justin Brown can be #5.
Quote:
- Ike stays for another year and/or Curtis Brown improves. Gay retained as Nickel.
- Foote retires/Spence comes back able to play somewhere during season.
- Clark retires.
sadly, I agree that Ike, Brown & Gay will be back.
Quote:
- Hood departs, leaving us w/ Woods, Heyward, McClendon, Fangupo, Nick Williams. McClendon is NOT the answer at NT and moves to DE.
disagree. Hood shouldn't be too expensive, keep him for depth. Woods can be depth and McLendon can be depth as a pass rushing NT on 3rd down and back up 3-4 DE

Quote:
Which, if any, do you all like?

1 – LT Cyrus Kouandjio (‘Bama), 6’5” 310. Had a rough first game this year, but has fared much better since. Probably the 3rd LT taken after Matthews/Lewan, which should be available for us.
2 – NT DaQuan Jones (Penn St), 6’3” 320. Body able to carry more weight and base/strength that can occupy multiple interior OL.
3 – (comp) WR Antwan Goodley (Baylor), 5’9.5” 225 (projected 4.4 speed). Built like a RB, but fast with good hands.
4 – WR Kelvin Benjamin (FSU), 6’4” 235 (projected 4.6 speed). WR in a TEs body. If he declares, may go even higher than the 4th.
5 – TE Jacob Pederson (Wisc), 6’4” 245. Good receiver; decent blocker.
5 – (comp) QB Tom Savage (Pitt), 6’4.5” 230. Has the talent to be developed, but raw.
6 – CB Keon Lyn (Syracuse), 6’ 1” 205 (projected 4.45 speed). Knee injury/surgery, out for season. 3rd/4th Rd talent that will drop due to injury, IMO.
7 – S Aldon Darby (ASU), 5’11” 195 (projected 4.5 speed). Rising prospect, but size limitations.
I HATE drafting Tom savage. He'll be lucky to get drafted. Make that 5th round pick a guard, RB or ILB and I'd be satisfied.

I don't see Sanders gone. Taking one WR is good. Either Benjamin or Bakkey works.

Although Bailey is only 5'9 he's built like Q and Q killed the Steelers for years. He'd be a good addition.

I'd rather have Benjamin though. Benjamin is a dominate force, I'd be surprised if he doesn't go round 2 though if he comes out. He's so aggressive and catches everything - impossible to cover.

Quote:
or...

1 – NT Louis Nix III (ND), 6’2” 345. Would hate to spend another 1st on the DL, but McClendon just ain’t cutting it at NT…better fit at DE, IMO.
2 – LT James Hurst (NC), 6’7” 310. Might not even be available here, but probably the 5th/6th ranked OT when all said and done and may slip. If not…
Alternate – LT Cameron Erving (FSU), 6’5” 320. Been playing very well this year and will probably end up in early 2nd if solid season continues.
3 – (comp) TE Xavier Grimble (USC) 6’5” 255 (projected 4.6 speed). Rising prospect with nice size/speed combo.
4 – WR Ty Montgomery (Stanford) 6’2” 215 (projected 4.5 speed) (KR). Thickly built WR with respectable speed that probably will go earlier than this, but as of now, is about the lower end of his draft projection.
5 – CB Bennett Jackson (ND) 6’1” 185 (projected 4.5 speed). Tall, lanky CB that seems to fit the type we normally consider.
5 (comp) – WR Shaq Evans (UCLA) 6’1” 210 (projected 4.5 speed) (PR). Hundley’s primary WR and has PR skills as well.
6 – ILB Chris Borland (Wisc), 6’ 245 (projected 4.7 speed) Thumper, plain and simple.
7 – P Pat O’Donnell (Miami). Mesko is not the long-term answer.
I don't understand this mock. I agree Nix could be a good pick.

I don't think Sanders is gone, so I doubt they take two WRs. I love Ty Montgomery though
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armsteeld


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuandjo is not an NFL LT. Bends at the waist too often and doesn't move his feet well. Reminds me of Gilbert and I see him as a RT in the NFL. Btw, Matthews got his arse whipped repeatedly today against Auburn and he has struggled against Ole MS and I'm not overly impressed and see him as a RT also. Matthews reminds me of Jake Long.
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JustPlainNasty


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

armsteeld wrote:
Kuandjo is not an NFL LT. Bends at the waist too often and doesn't move his feet well. Reminds me of Gilbert and I see him as a RT in the NFL. Btw, Matthews got his arse whipped repeatedly today against Auburn and he has struggled against Ole MS and I'm not overly impressed and see him as a RT also. Matthews reminds me of Jake Long.


Agree very much with Kuandjo...I'm getting to watch much tape this year during the season because of school so I didnt see the Auburn game. Matthews typically excels at Pass pro , he has very good use of his hands and not so much disappoints in the run but is not as aggressive as youd like based of of much of his junior tape.
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JustPlainNasty


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WardHof

I honestly wouldn't even draft Hurst based off of all my previous observations. I haven't watched him closely this year but I don't imagine much has changed because we were hearing the same things you are saying when I thought very little of him before.

Eric Ebron is the 1st round player Id be concerned with on that roster. Only thing is he is a little raw at the position. He could excel at DE if he decided to stay there but Id be excited to have him join our roster.
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Ward4HOF


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JustPlainNasty wrote:
WardHof

I honestly wouldn't even draft Hurst based off of all my previous observations. I haven't watched him closely this year but I don't imagine much has changed because we were hearing the same things you are saying when I thought very little of him before.

Eric Ebron is the 1st round player Id be concerned with on that roster. Only thing is he is a little raw at the position. He could excel at DE if he decided to stay there but Id be excited to have him join our roster.


Do you think Ebron goes in the 1st? Will he rise up the boards that much? But yeah, he'd be a good addition, and wouldn't mind taking him in the early 2nd, but if we're drafting in the top half of the 1st, doubt he'd be the pick.

@Turtle--I think they'll make an offer to Sanders, but think ultimately, he'll sign somewhere else for higher...if he garnered interest as an RFA, I'm assuming he'll be priced out of our range with the "passable" season he's having.

As far as Hood, the Steelers just need to do both parties a favor and allow him to go to a 4-3 team where he can at least have a chance to succeed...we can find cheaper, better depth than Hood, IMO.

And what don't you understand about the 2nd mock? The alternate 2nd Rd pick if Hurst wasn't the choice? Or just my rationale for the entire mock?
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FourThreeMafia


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ward4HOF wrote:
LOL, 43, I figured you jump on the three aspects you did....small WR, 2nd Rd OL, and Savage. I will argue though that just because Adams and Gilbert haven't worked out as 2nd Rd OL, doesn't mean another 2nd Rd guy won't work out. I mean, we had Starks who was a 3rd Rd guy and Marvel Smith was a 2nd guy. And yes, they weren't "world beaters", but they were serviceable.

I know Goodley is a smurf, but I like him, and he just had an 11/182/2 Td day! I do agree though, with what you are saying about larger WRs. And Savage, I think, is a guy who can be developed. I think he has most of the "tools" necessary to be an NFL QB. Maybe Jones will develop, though.


The 2nd round OLine thing isnt about Adams and Gilbert's struggles, but more about them being young and still have SOME upside, and I dont think anyone we get in the 2nd is really going to be much more talented than them. Obviously, if the right player was there, I wouldnt mind it....but for 2014, Id hold off another year. If we didnt have many needs I wouldnt care. We have alot and unlike OT, there are some positions we have no youth or potential at.

Personally, I hope next year they give Adams another chance and bring in someone in FA. NO, not Brandon Albert or any high priced OT...but not Guy Whimper or Jon Scott either. Just an OT that can be servicable similar to how Max Starks was. Not great, but a stop gap, if needed.

The small WR issue has bugged me for years. People think its not a big deal, but I beg to differ. A big body could do wonders for Ben, especially in the red zone.

Savage....if we got him as a UDFA to ATTEMPT to develop...Id live with it. If we wasted a 5th round pick on him, I would projectile vomit. I didnt like the Landry Jones pick last year, but he was better than Savage in every conceivable way and we took him in the 4th. If we brought Savage in as a UDFA to compete with Jones, okay....but I dont see the point in spending mid round picks on project QBs two years in a row, especially when Savage is an extremely far fetched project.
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JustPlainNasty


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ward4HOF wrote:
JustPlainNasty wrote:
WardHof

I honestly wouldn't even draft Hurst based off of all my previous observations. I haven't watched him closely this year but I don't imagine much has changed because we were hearing the same things you are saying when I thought very little of him before.

Eric Ebron is the 1st round player Id be concerned with on that roster. Only thing is he is a little raw at the position. He could excel at DE if he decided to stay there but Id be excited to have him join our roster.


Do you think Ebron goes in the 1st? Will he rise up the boards that much? But yeah, he'd be a good addition, and wouldn't mind taking him in the early 2nd, but if we're drafting in the top half of the 1st, doubt he'd be the pick.

@Turtle--I think they'll make an offer to Sanders, but think ultimately, he'll sign somewhere else for higher...if he garnered interest as an RFA, I'm assuming he'll be priced out of our range with the "passable" season he's having.

As far as Hood, the Steelers just need to do both parties a favor and allow him to go to a 4-3 team where he can at least have a chance to succeed...we can find cheaper, better depth than Hood, IMO.

And what don't you understand about the 2nd mock? The alternate 2nd Rd pick if Hurst wasn't the choice? Or just my rationale for the entire mock?


His athleticism is off the charts...Jimmy Graham was hardly a developed TE when he played for Miami, matter of fact I had serious concerns about the number of drops and ability to catch. Ebron is so athletic that he played DE and TE last year, he was very impressive on pass rush....
I believe yoy could be looking at a top 20 potential...after that very fortunate gamble.
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