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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SDN40 wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
SDN40 wrote:
I don't know if this deserves its own thread so I'll try here.

What do you guys think of the Pickett / Raji situation ? With Pickett at end it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that he wouldn't be offered another contract. Now that he is back at NT I think his status becomes more unclear. Same deal with Raji. I don't know if his future is at NT anymore, and you have to wonder what his value is at end with the depth we have. I think they both are better playing their current positions. I never agreed with the change to begin with. I think the waters are muddied regarding their future.


This has been a core issue with me even back to the day they picked Raji. I'll tell ya this though, Raji is the one of that group you don't let get away. I do like Pickett a bit more at the 1-tech. But you just can't let a Raji walk out that door.


So you think letting Pickett go and moving Raji back to NT is the way they will go ? It makes the most sense strictly based on age, but for some reason I am having issues with it. It seems like Pickett is the far better NT. Its almost like you are weakening 2 positions with that move.


I'm sure as hell not going to be the one that fights you on that. I would not have taken Raji that year because of Pickett. Fact is, Raji is here now and you can't let that young talent get away. I'm sure they will try to keep both but Raji would clearly be at the top of that list IMO.
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palmy50


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

squire12 wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
SDN40 wrote:
I don't know if this deserves its own thread so I'll try here.

What do you guys think of the Pickett / Raji situation ? With Pickett at end it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that he wouldn't be offered another contract. Now that he is back at NT I think his status becomes more unclear. Same deal with Raji. I don't know if his future is at NT anymore, and you have to wonder what his value is at end with the depth we have. I think they both are better playing their current positions. I never agreed with the change to begin with. I think the waters are muddied regarding their future.


This has been a core issue with me even back to the day they picked Raji. I'll tell ya this though, Raji is the one of that group you don't let get away. I do like Pickett a bit more at the 1-tech right now. But you just can't let a Raji walk out that door.


Hopefully they can get Pickett for a short cheapish type veteran deal (if they choose to do so), Jolly for a similar deal with all they have shown him over the last few years. I feel Jolly feels pretty grateful and they value his contribution to the run D. Raji is a tougher signing with his youth and size/quicks combo. Wilson is likely gone with Jones, Daniels, Boyd and Worthy back for next year.


Agree with every word.

I for one was a bit shocked that Wilson even made the 53. But he is good as gone come seasons end. Good player, just much harder to find the others than it is to find a Wilson. Raji is not going to come cheap but I'm sure he is high on TT's list. I don't even let Raji test the market. I use the tag on him if I can't get a deal done before hand.

Pickett and Jolly are the two I'm not sure about. Both could come cheap(for much different reasons) and both could see good money on the market. Just need to let those things play out and hope they let TT match if the money works.
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skibrett15


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
squire12 wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
SDN40 wrote:
I don't know if this deserves its own thread so I'll try here.

What do you guys think of the Pickett / Raji situation ? With Pickett at end it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that he wouldn't be offered another contract. Now that he is back at NT I think his status becomes more unclear. Same deal with Raji. I don't know if his future is at NT anymore, and you have to wonder what his value is at end with the depth we have. I think they both are better playing their current positions. I never agreed with the change to begin with. I think the waters are muddied regarding their future.


This has been a core issue with me even back to the day they picked Raji. I'll tell ya this though, Raji is the one of that group you don't let get away. I do like Pickett a bit more at the 1-tech right now. But you just can't let a Raji walk out that door.


Hopefully they can get Pickett for a short cheapish type veteran deal (if they choose to do so), Jolly for a similar deal with all they have shown him over the last few years. I feel Jolly feels pretty grateful and they value his contribution to the run D. Raji is a tougher signing with his youth and size/quicks combo. Wilson is likely gone with Jones, Daniels, Boyd and Worthy back for next year.


Agree with every word.

I for one was a bit shocked that Wilson even made the 53. But he is good as gone come seasons end. Good player, just much harder to find the others than it is to find a Wilson. Raji is not going to come cheap but I'm sure he is high on TT's list. I don't even let Raji test the market. I use the tag on him if I can't get a deal done before hand.

Pickett and Jolly are the two I'm not sure about. Both could come cheap(for much different reasons) and both could see good money on the market. Just need to let those things play out and hope they let TT match if the money works.


How much is Raji playing on 2nd and long and 3rd down D in the nickle/sub packages? Seems like between daniels, jones, worthy there's enough guys that he might not even be preferred in those situations.
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RashaanSalaami


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
squire12 wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
SDN40 wrote:
I don't know if this deserves its own thread so I'll try here.

What do you guys think of the Pickett / Raji situation ? With Pickett at end it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that he wouldn't be offered another contract. Now that he is back at NT I think his status becomes more unclear. Same deal with Raji. I don't know if his future is at NT anymore, and you have to wonder what his value is at end with the depth we have. I think they both are better playing their current positions. I never agreed with the change to begin with. I think the waters are muddied regarding their future.


This has been a core issue with me even back to the day they picked Raji. I'll tell ya this though, Raji is the one of that group you don't let get away. I do like Pickett a bit more at the 1-tech right now. But you just can't let a Raji walk out that door.


Hopefully they can get Pickett for a short cheapish type veteran deal (if they choose to do so), Jolly for a similar deal with all they have shown him over the last few years. I feel Jolly feels pretty grateful and they value his contribution to the run D. Raji is a tougher signing with his youth and size/quicks combo. Wilson is likely gone with Jones, Daniels, Boyd and Worthy back for next year.


Agree with every word.

I for one was a bit shocked that Wilson even made the 53. But he is good as gone come seasons end. Good player, just much harder to find the others than it is to find a Wilson. Raji is not going to come cheap but I'm sure he is high on TT's list. I don't even let Raji test the market. I use the tag on him if I can't get a deal done before hand.

Pickett and Jolly are the two I'm not sure about. Both could come cheap(for much different reasons) and both could see good money on the market. Just need to let those things play out and hope they let TT match if the money works.


Jolly should hit. We need him for his play and energy as much as he needs us for that support system. I think they should be able to get a deal done to bring him back. Man, I get a little giddy thinking how much he brought to this organization when I'm sure 99.9% of us hadn't even considered the possibility of him making the 53, especially after we drafted Datone and Boyd.

Onto Ryan Pickett. The man has been such a stud since coming here. He's probably been the lone consistent defensive linemen on this roster since signing here. Man is just very good at his job. Tough to move anywhere and does a nice job moving himself and the blocker in small spaces to make unseen impact plays in the run game. This is a fun defensive line to watch!!

The other thing (irrelevant to this thread) is how great a decision was it for the coaching staff to use Mike Neal at linebacker!! I can't help but think the extra pounds he doesn't have to play with help him on the field. It's not like his greatest contributions to this team were in stoutness inside, so shed the pounds, gain a little quickness and get after the damn passer. He's also a lot stronger in run support from the outside, particularly if he gets a shot on a tight end. And to this extent, Dom Capers has done a terrific job not putting too much coverage responsibility on him too. We'll see if this is something that will be exploited down the stretch.

I guess while I'm talking front 7, a couple other things. BJ Raji is having one helluva season. Can't believe I said we may consider letting him go this offseason. He's been very impressive, especially now with all the talent we have up front.

And I guess since this thread is about Worthy, I think you have to activate him. Not sure who you get rid of, but it seems like CJ Wilson is probably that guy. He's given some very solid snaps, but not sure he has that much value with a guy like Jolly getting his reps. An injury may leave us short a body in that area, but I think you just have to hope we have enough guys here that could compensate for it, even if in other ways.

I would say I can't wait for that linebacking crew to get back out there in good health, but of course we're gonna have other injuries that balance their return to the field, so it's an irrelevant statement.
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palmy50


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RashaanSalaami wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
squire12 wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
SDN40 wrote:
I don't know if this deserves its own thread so I'll try here.

What do you guys think of the Pickett / Raji situation ? With Pickett at end it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that he wouldn't be offered another contract. Now that he is back at NT I think his status becomes more unclear. Same deal with Raji. I don't know if his future is at NT anymore, and you have to wonder what his value is at end with the depth we have. I think they both are better playing their current positions. I never agreed with the change to begin with. I think the waters are muddied regarding their future.


This has been a core issue with me even back to the day they picked Raji. I'll tell ya this though, Raji is the one of that group you don't let get away. I do like Pickett a bit more at the 1-tech right now. But you just can't let a Raji walk out that door.


Hopefully they can get Pickett for a short cheapish type veteran deal (if they choose to do so), Jolly for a similar deal with all they have shown him over the last few years. I feel Jolly feels pretty grateful and they value his contribution to the run D. Raji is a tougher signing with his youth and size/quicks combo. Wilson is likely gone with Jones, Daniels, Boyd and Worthy back for next year.


Agree with every word.

I for one was a bit shocked that Wilson even made the 53. But he is good as gone come seasons end. Good player, just much harder to find the others than it is to find a Wilson. Raji is not going to come cheap but I'm sure he is high on TT's list. I don't even let Raji test the market. I use the tag on him if I can't get a deal done before hand.

Pickett and Jolly are the two I'm not sure about. Both could come cheap(for much different reasons) and both could see good money on the market. Just need to let those things play out and hope they let TT match if the money works.


Jolly should hit. We need him for his play and energy as much as he needs us for that support system. I think they should be able to get a deal done to bring him back. Man, I get a little giddy thinking how much he brought to this organization when I'm sure 99.9% of us hadn't even considered the possibility of him making the 53, especially after we drafted Datone and Boyd.

Onto Ryan Pickett. The man has been such a stud since coming here. He's probably been the lone consistent defensive linemen on this roster since signing here. Man is just very good at his job. Tough to move anywhere and does a nice job moving himself and the blocker in small spaces to make unseen impact plays in the run game. This is a fun defensive line to watch!!

The other thing (irrelevant to this thread) is how great a decision was it for the coaching staff to use Mike Neal at linebacker!! I can't help but think the extra pounds he doesn't have to play with help him on the field. It's not like his greatest contributions to this team were in stoutness inside, so shed the pounds, gain a little quickness and get after the damn passer. He's also a lot stronger in run support from the outside, particularly if he gets a shot on a tight end. And to this extent, Dom Capers has done a terrific job not putting too much coverage responsibility on him too. We'll see if this is something that will be exploited down the stretch.
I guess while I'm talking front 7, a couple other things. BJ Raji is having one helluva season. Can't believe I said we may consider letting him go this offseason. He's been very impressive, especially now with all the talent we have up front.

And I guess since this thread is about Worthy, I think you have to activate him. Not sure who you get rid of, but it seems like CJ Wilson is probably that guy. He's given some very solid snaps, but not sure he has that much value with a guy like Jolly getting his reps. An injury may leave us short a body in that area, but I think you just have to hope we have enough guys here that could compensate for it, even if in other ways.

I would say I can't wait for that linebacking crew to get back out there in good health, but of course we're gonna have other injuries that balance their return to the field, so it's an irrelevant statement.


Not going to lie. There is a part of me that feels that was a great move all the way around also and everything was on the up and up. But I must say, it's a bit odd that Neal had his masking issues going into last season and when caught starting "cutting pounds". This staff can try to sell that thing any way they want but old Palmy has been around this game a long damn time. I'm happy everything worked out there. But I feel the backstory could be a great deal different than what is in print. I mean, look at his body on draft day.........
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RashaanSalaami


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh wow, I forgot about that suspension. I just sorta assumed it at the time. That was not a natural looking body in any way. I think he's honestly better for it injury wise either way.
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palmy50


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RashaanSalaami wrote:
Oh wow, I forgot about that suspension. I just sorta assumed it at the time. That was not a natural looking body in any way. I think he's honestly better for it injury wise either way.


No doubt about that. Man was too tight and had a ton of meat on that small frame, for sure.

I do feel it was a good move for Neal. Some might say it took away the "special" in him. But he might just mold into a much better all around player now and one you can count on to be up on gameday as well.

I probably should not have made that post. But I have been asked about Neal a ton of late and I truly do feel that's what played out there.
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incognito_man


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i think many people see it similarly Wink
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marky mark


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
I probably should not have made that post. But I have been asked about Neal a ton of late and I truly do feel that's what played out there.


I thought so too. I think most know now about the whole Adderall coverup, especially with the fiasco in Seattle.
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5thStringQB


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm with the veteran posters on here with regards to the Raji resigning. That is most certainly as close to a must as it gets. So lets just assume he gets resigned.

So that's Raji, Daniels, Boyd, Jones, and Worthy (5DL) who are back for '14.

-Raji and Boyd potentially fill starting and backup DT roles
-LDE is occupied by Worthy
-RDE and Nickel sub package manned by Daniels and Jones

At most TT will keep 2 of Jolly, Wilson, Pickett and Neal

-Sounds more and more like OLB is a better spot for Neal so I'm not sure he is worth mentioning here but I do think TT pushes to resign him.

-Wilson is gone. Deep position group coupled with some comments he's had of late reinforce that statement.

The way I see this playing out with only Worthy at LDE, TT is going to have to decide between Jolly and Pickett and I go with Jolly in that situation. He is a younger, cheaper option that brings a different element to this defense that TT and MM certainly appreciate.

IMO this is what our DL looks like in 2014:

LDE: Jolly, Worthy, Draft Pick?
DT: Raji, Boyd
RDE: Daniels, Jones

Going to be interesting to see how this plays out. With so many players we could resign (Raji, Finley, Jones, Shields, Jolly, Neal, Newhouse) I'm not sure that we have enough $ for anything more than Raji.
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Victor1124


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kal-El wrote:
Anyone else wonder if, knowing what we know now about Jolly, the Packers would still take Datone Jones in the draft?


I don't blame them for not counting on a guy coming of ACL injury or another off suspension when they made that choice, but I'm not sure how they now plan to get what they invested out of Jones and Worthy at this point with Jolly, Raji, Pickett, Daniels, and Neal (if you count him) all playing so well. I'm really not sure they make that pick again.


Hindsight sucks here with the emergence of Jolly. I like Jones as a player but Johnathan Cyprien would of been pretty awesome right there. Heard he is doing well this year. We would then have almost 0 holes on defense besides OLB depth and could turn most of our focus on the offense.
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palmy50


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 3:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Victor1124 wrote:
Kal-El wrote:
Anyone else wonder if, knowing what we know now about Jolly, the Packers would still take Datone Jones in the draft?


I don't blame them for not counting on a guy coming of ACL injury or another off suspension when they made that choice, but I'm not sure how they now plan to get what they invested out of Jones and Worthy at this point with Jolly, Raji, Pickett, Daniels, and Neal (if you count him) all playing so well. I'm really not sure they make that pick again.


Hindsight sucks here with the emergence of Jolly. I like Jones as a player but Johnathan Cyprien would of been pretty awesome right there. Heard he is doing well this year. We would then have almost 0 holes on defense besides OLB depth and could turn most of our focus on the offense.


The only safety I would have even talked about over Jones would have been Elam and I would have seen less value in Elam with Jolly around(tone setter, both on the field and in the room). Hindsight is 20/20. But when I look at my top tier at the time of the pick as it stands today, it would have been a close call between Jones and Ogletree.

The player at hand should at the very least be in the draft tier when looking back. You always grade out the sum of all the parts. I mean, Sam Shields clearly hit for the Packers and he did pull VERY high marks for upside. That's not at all to say he was a smart high board draft choice though. Know what I mean?
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BrettFavre004


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
That's just it though. If your going to keep the combo of Jolly, Pickett, and Raji around next year it's going to cost ya a pile of bank.


The three of them already count about 14 million against the cap this year. I would expect Raji's count to go up a bit (although usually isn't high in the first year) and Picketts to go down. Can't imagine Jolly getting a ton from anywhere given his history and can't imagine him wanting to sign elsewhere given his talk of support from the community, players and his wife with that whole story.

Long story short, I would expect the 3 of them to maybe go from about a collective 14 a year to maybe 16 per year if we resign all 3. Franchise tag for a DT was only 8.45 last year.
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Dunderhead


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it might be real possible to sign Raji for 8 mil. I mean, he's not elite, but he's that tier right below and his arrow is still pointing up.

Problem is that Jolly contract. From that article, sounds like he has some financial problems. At the end of the day, he really does have to worry about feeding his family. At the end of the day the Packers have to worry about losing money if Jolly has a relapse.

One more and he's toast, they'll never let him come back. My price on a guy like that is 2-3 mil over 5 years. Basically wraps up the rest of his playing days and that's a very friendly number for the Pack based on what I see from him as a player. Problem is, he might be in that 4-5 mil a year range in reality based on play. I can't hold it against a guy to chase his worthy.

As far as the draft, I have no other player of better value than Jones. That's like "no brainer" territory for me there. Woulda like Eric Reid there, but he was off the board. I know there's a lot of love for Alec Ogletree, but are people forgetting his drink drink, drive drive problem before the draft/right before the combine? I have problems with guys that know what's on the line and then pulling idiotic mistakes. That mentality almost never goes away. And to me, and against popular belief around here, the single most thing that leads to bust isn't injury history it's the mental aspect that leads to bust.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
RashaanSalaami wrote:
Oh wow, I forgot about that suspension. I just sorta assumed it at the time. That was not a natural looking body in any way. I think he's honestly better for it injury wise either way.


No doubt about that. Man was too tight and had a ton of meat on that small frame, for sure.

I do feel it was a good move for Neal. Some might say it took away the "special" in him. But he might just mold into a much better all around player now and one you can count on to be up on gameday as well.

I probably should not have made that post. But I have been asked about Neal a ton of late and I truly do feel that's what played out there.


Why? No point in denying that it happens and living in a fantasy world. We are in a weird middle area in sports right now where we are rejecting science and will probably be looked at as foolish in 20 years by future generations for demonizing it so much.
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