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Bengals QB earns AFC OPOW award

 
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LondonBengal


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:05 pm    Post subject: Bengals QB earns AFC OPOW award Reply with quote

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/16/andy-dalton-named-afc-offensive-player-of-the-week/

Discuss......
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johndeere1707


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

good for him. but any of us can agree that he just played his game of short dump off passes that went for huge gains. Im not hating on his performance because it worked, but its telling that this is his first 300 yard passing game in a long while.
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Carson4MVP


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The game plan worked. Congrats to Dalton. He is much better when they use him as he should be used, 25-30 throws a game MAX and 90-95% of them within 10-15 yards from the LOS.

Only problem with that is a good defense is going to see through that and stack the box with 8-9 guys and dare Dalton to throw downfield. He needs to complete more than the 25-30% of his passes 20+ yards downfield.
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LondonBengal


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carson4MVP wrote:
The game plan worked. Congrats to Dalton. He is much better when they use him as he should be used, 25-30 throws a game MAX and 90-95% of them within 10-15 yards from the LOS.

Only problem with that is a good defense is going to see through that and stack the box with 8-9 guys and dare Dalton to throw downfield. He needs to complete more than the 25-30% of his passes 20+ yards downfield.
That's the West Coast offence. Take what the defence gives you. Lots of short high-percentage passes.

So, what you're saying is that of his 40 attempts Sunday 10-12+ of them should have been 20+ yards downfield ?

Interesting.
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Carson4MVP


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LondonBengal wrote:
Carson4MVP wrote:
The game plan worked. Congrats to Dalton. He is much better when they use him as he should be used, 25-30 throws a game MAX and 90-95% of them within 10-15 yards from the LOS.

Only problem with that is a good defense is going to see through that and stack the box with 8-9 guys and dare Dalton to throw downfield. He needs to complete more than the 25-30% of his passes 20+ yards downfield.
That's the West Coast offence. Take what the defence gives you. Lots of short high-percentage passes.

So, what you're saying is that of his 40 attempts Sunday 10-12 of them should have been 20+ yards downfield ?

Interesting.


This is the Bengals problem:

In a TRUE west coast offense, Dalton is a good QB. All of his throws would be within 20 yards of the LOS and he would be effective in it. He has shown that he can complete short to intermediate throws. His problem is with the medium to long range throws. On the season, he is completing somewhere around 27% of these throws.

The Bengals problem is their receivers are not built for a TRUE west coast offense. Besides Hawkins, all of the other receivers strength is in downfield routes, taking the top off of defenses. So right now, either way we have square pegs that we are fitting into round holes.

Last Sunday, Buffalo gave us EVERYTHING we wanted underneath so we ran the WCO and Andy did a good job of taking the underneath stuff and letting the receivers make plays after the catch. If you remember, my biggest complaint about Andy is how he takes his receivers out of the play on throws by throwing behind them or at their feet, stopping their momentum.

Andy gets into trouble when teams stack the box and force him to throw downfield. He doesn't go through his progressions very well. He reads the defense at the LOS and almost decides before the ball is snapped who he is throwing it to. This leads to a lot of throws into double and triple coverage as we have seen all season. Most of the tougher defenses, play Andy this way and he struggles with it for the most part.

I think his inability to throw down the field effectively consistently is another reason why we do not run the ball as effective as we should. With teams having extra guys underneath to eliminate the short throws, it makes it tougher to get to the 2nd level in the running game.

Either way, we are 4-2 right now which I think is a lot better than most people had us starting the season. Hopefully we can figure out the offense a bit and get on a bit of a roll offensively.
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Carson4MVP


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The player I would compare him most to is Alex Smith. While he can be an average to good QB in a true WCO, a team not running a true WCO (San Fran) has to decide whether keeping a guy like Smith is good for the team long term, or if they should replace said player with one that fits into the offense better.

San Fran last year benched Smith and then released him while he had the highest QB rating in the NFL. Why? Because he was a square peg in their offenses round hole. Smith is the master of the 5-10 yard throws, as you can see with San Fran's WR's last year and KC's this year.

After replacing Smith with Kaepernick, they were able to take advantage of their receivers talents with the downfield throws and it was a completely different offense in the 2nd half under Kaep.

Now in KC, Smith is doing a decent job in a true WC offense throwing to the backs and TE's more than his WR's downfield.

Obviously the Bengals do not have a Kaep on the bench to insert into the offense, so they have to decide how long they are going to keep Dalton running an offense it isn't built to run.
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theJ


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carson4MVP wrote:
This is the Bengals problem:

In a TRUE west coast offense, Dalton is a good QB. All of his throws would be within 20 yards of the LOS and he would be effective in it. He has shown that he can complete short to intermediate throws. His problem is with the medium to long range throws. On the season, he is completing somewhere around 27% of these throws.

The Bengals problem is their receivers are not built for a TRUE west coast offense. Besides Hawkins, all of the other receivers strength is in downfield routes, taking the top off of defenses. So right now, either way we have square pegs that we are fitting into round holes.

Last Sunday, Buffalo gave us EVERYTHING we wanted underneath so we ran the WCO and Andy did a good job of taking the underneath stuff and letting the receivers make plays after the catch. If you remember, my biggest complaint about Andy is how he takes his receivers out of the play on throws by throwing behind them or at their feet, stopping their momentum.

Andy gets into trouble when teams stack the box and force him to throw downfield. He doesn't go through his progressions very well. He reads the defense at the LOS and almost decides before the ball is snapped who he is throwing it to. This leads to a lot of throws into double and triple coverage as we have seen all season. Most of the tougher defenses, play Andy this way and he struggles with it for the most part.

I think his inability to throw down the field effectively consistently is another reason why we do not run the ball as effective as we should. With teams having extra guys underneath to eliminate the short throws, it makes it tougher to get to the 2nd level in the running game.

Either way, we are 4-2 right now which I think is a lot better than most people had us starting the season. Hopefully we can figure out the offense a bit and get on a bit of a roll offensively.

Agreed.

Though, i'd say Sanu is a great fit for the WCO too. Big body, very physical and good YAC ability. But Marvin Jones and AJ Green could be so much more in a hybrid WCO/Vertical offense.

Carson4MVP wrote:
The game plan worked. Congrats to Dalton. He is much better when they use him as he should be used, 25-30 throws a game MAX and 90-95% of them within 10-15 yards from the LOS.

Only problem with that is a good defense is going to see through that and stack the box with 8-9 guys and dare Dalton to throw downfield. He needs to complete more than the 25-30% of his passes 20+ yards downfield.

And agreed again.
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theJ


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Bengals QB earns AFC OPOW award Reply with quote

LondonBengal wrote:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/16/andy-dalton-named-afc-offensive-player-of-the-week/

Discuss......

Dalton played well, and i won't take that away from him. I was pleased with the performance. Take this next sentence with a grain of salt, because i didn't watch many other games on Sunday. But i doubt Dalton deserved this honor. There had to be someone else on offense in the AFC that had a better day.
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LondonBengal


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Bengals QB earns AFC OPOW award Reply with quote

theJ wrote:
Dalton played well, and i won't take that away from him. I was pleased with the performance. Take this next sentence with a grain of salt, because i didn't watch many other games on Sunday. But i doubt Dalton deserved this honor. There had to be someone else on offense in the AFC that had a better day.
Just reporting the facts yer honour !!!!!!

Obviously someone at Park Avenue thought he had the best offensive day in the AFC; or they got bored with sending stuff to Denver.

Not commenting on the QB anymore. Will wait until the end of the season to see on how things work out, and re-assess then.
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LondonBengal


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carson4MVP wrote:
The player I would compare him most to is Alex Smith. While he can be an average to good QB in a true WCO, a team not running a true WCO (San Fran) has to decide whether keeping a guy like Smith is good for the team long term, or if they should replace said player with one that fits into the offense better.

San Fran last year benched Smith and then released him while he had the highest QB rating in the NFL. Why? Because he was a square peg in their offenses round hole. Smith is the master of the 5-10 yard throws, as you can see with San Fran's WR's last year and KC's this year.

After replacing Smith with Kaepernick, they were able to take advantage of their receivers talents with the downfield throws and it was a completely different offense in the 2nd half under Kaep.

Now in KC, Smith is doing a decent job in a true WC offense throwing to the backs and TE's more than his WR's downfield.

Obviously the Bengals do not have a Kaep on the bench to insert into the offense, so they have to decide how long they are going to keep Dalton running an offense it isn't built to run.

If you've got ten minutes spare, I suggest you go have a look @ the SF forum, where they're having an interesting discussion about Kaepernick and his shortcomings. Its a good read.

The grass is always greener !!!!
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Last edited by LondonBengal on Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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LondonBengal


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carson4MVP wrote:
......they have to decide how long they are going to keep Dalton running an offense it isn't built to run.
Reading Lewis's and Gruden's comments Monday, that decision has already been largely made......

http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Notes-Gio-making-them-miss-Coaches-embrace-Dalton/05ffd370-d24d-4d37-89bc-3677238f4916
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LondonBengal


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

another interesting article to read...........

http://espn.go.com/blog/cincinnati-bengals/post/_/id/1669/bengals-andy-dalton-aj-green-chemistry-hype
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Carson4MVP


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Bengals QB earns AFC OPOW award Reply with quote

theJ wrote:
LondonBengal wrote:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/16/andy-dalton-named-afc-offensive-player-of-the-week/

Discuss......

Dalton played well, and i won't take that away from him. I was pleased with the performance. Take this next sentence with a grain of salt, because i didn't watch many other games on Sunday. But i doubt Dalton deserved this honor. There had to be someone else on offense in the AFC that had a better day.


You mean like Knowshon Mareno? Guy singlehandedly beat me in my big money fantasy league.
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Carson4MVP


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LondonBengal wrote:
Carson4MVP wrote:
The player I would compare him most to is Alex Smith. While he can be an average to good QB in a true WCO, a team not running a true WCO (San Fran) has to decide whether keeping a guy like Smith is good for the team long term, or if they should replace said player with one that fits into the offense better.

San Fran last year benched Smith and then released him while he had the highest QB rating in the NFL. Why? Because he was a square peg in their offenses round hole. Smith is the master of the 5-10 yard throws, as you can see with San Fran's WR's last year and KC's this year.

After replacing Smith with Kaepernick, they were able to take advantage of their receivers talents with the downfield throws and it was a completely different offense in the 2nd half under Kaep.

Now in KC, Smith is doing a decent job in a true WC offense throwing to the backs and TE's more than his WR's downfield.

Obviously the Bengals do not have a Kaep on the bench to insert into the offense, so they have to decide how long they are going to keep Dalton running an offense it isn't built to run.

If you've got ten minutes spare, I suggest you go have a look @ the SF forum, where they're having an interesting discussion about Kaepernick and his shortcomings. Its a good read.

The grass is always greener !!!!


You can understand SF's fans frustration, however, he has done extremely well when his targets are healthy. When a 40 year old Bolden is your only decent target to throw to, of course his production will go down. As soon as Vernon Davis came back, he returned to form. Will probably improve more when Crabtree comes back.

With the downfield threats in this offense, I would absolutely take Kaep for this offense. Do you think SF would take the deal the other way? I don't, they had a carbon copy of him in Smith and got rid of him...
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MrCincinnati


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dalton hasn't really been horrible for the most part this year anyway

Week 1: Great Game
Week 2: Solid Game
Week 3: Great Game
Week 4: Ugly Game
Week 4: Ugly Game
Week 4: Great Game

He was only in 2 game slump, and now he got out of it. His problem though in the past though is he starts out hot and ends cold. Lets hope it doesn't end the same way.
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