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Brian23


Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 6725
PostPosted: Tue Nov 12, 2013 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

daboyle250 wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
Take Rambo's spot? He's not even starting. Kid shows well and gets put right back on the bench and his errors were rookie errors one would expect.

The way people talk about him now is insane too me.


Who has it now? Biggers? That's worse.


Rambo hasn't played meaningful time since the first 2 games, and the game Brandon was suspended. Besides that, he's been on the bench.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

daboyle250 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
The pass rush and secondary work together.

Hasn't anyone ever heard of a coverage sack?

Or a turnover forced because of pressure?

The coverage just hasn't been good at ALL! (Except for Hall, as Marcus said, Amerson gets a rookie pass).There's only been 1 or 2 plays all year that I recall the coverage being good and the announcers talking about no one ending open and it caused a coverage sack.

Almost every incomplete pass that qbs have had and interceptions that have been thrown have been because of pressure on the opposing Qb.

That being said, I think the skins need to do both. We have to get a starting caliber FS if we want to be a legitimate top 10 defense.

We need help at DE because of injuries.

We don't need a new NT - Cofield may be a pro bowler this year and if not, he's deserving and we have two young guys developing behind him in Baker and Neild.

The 3-4 DE's in our scheme are not glamour players, no one should expect them to make a lot of splash plays, but I do expect more out of them than what they've given us.

Bottom line, get a true FS get an upgrade at LDE and an ILB to play next to Riley and we'll be a good to great D


Agreed. We need a replacement for Bowen, Fletcher, and a guy who will take Rambo's spot and then we'd have a good defense.
I'm still hung up on Bowen. I need a Woz answer on his contract.

We restructured his contract to make him cheap for this year and pushed his money off into the future.

I think there is going to be a lot of dead money if we release him next year. I can never figure out those $'s correctly, but if that's the case, I see him being here. He may not start, but that depends on who we bring in, how they do and on how Jenkins does and Carriker's health.
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian23 wrote:
daboyle250 wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
Take Rambo's spot? He's not even starting. Kid shows well and gets put right back on the bench and his errors were rookie errors one would expect.

The way people talk about him now is insane too me.


Who has it now? Biggers? That's worse.


Rambo hasn't played meaningful time since the first 2 games, and the game Brandon was suspended. Besides that, he's been on the bench.
That still doesn't mean they shouldn't sign an upgrade. No one is going to convince me that Rambo is ready to be a full time starter in the NFL yet.

At best he's been average. The team needs a ball hawking playmaker at FS, just like they need a playmaker at ILB. (Those are two things this defense is missing the most) It's a shame we don't have a first round pick because my choice would either be Haha Clinton-Dix or CJ Mosely with our first round pick.
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Brian23


Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 6725
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
daboyle250 wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
Take Rambo's spot? He's not even starting. Kid shows well and gets put right back on the bench and his errors were rookie errors one would expect.

The way people talk about him now is insane too me.


Who has it now? Biggers? That's worse.


Rambo hasn't played meaningful time since the first 2 games, and the game Brandon was suspended. Besides that, he's been on the bench.
That still doesn't mean they shouldn't sign an upgrade. No one is going to convince me that Rambo is ready to be a full time starter in the NFL yet.

At best he's been average. The team needs a ball hawking playmaker at FS, just like they need a playmaker at ILB. (Those are two things this defense is missing the most) It's a shame we don't have a first round pick because my choice would either be Haha Clinton-Dix or CJ Mosely with our first round pick.


And yet you were willing to hand over the starting gig to Phillip Thomas...

And Rambo is an upgrade over what we have now and giving him that playing time is only going to help him in the future. Instead, we go into next year questioning whether he's worth anything or not.
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MKnight82


Joined: 04 Mar 2009
Posts: 6720
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
daboyle250 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
The pass rush and secondary work together.

Hasn't anyone ever heard of a coverage sack?

Or a turnover forced because of pressure?

The coverage just hasn't been good at ALL! (Except for Hall, as Marcus said, Amerson gets a rookie pass).There's only been 1 or 2 plays all year that I recall the coverage being good and the announcers talking about no one ending open and it caused a coverage sack.

Almost every incomplete pass that qbs have had and interceptions that have been thrown have been because of pressure on the opposing Qb.

That being said, I think the skins need to do both. We have to get a starting caliber FS if we want to be a legitimate top 10 defense.

We need help at DE because of injuries.

We don't need a new NT - Cofield may be a pro bowler this year and if not, he's deserving and we have two young guys developing behind him in Baker and Neild.

The 3-4 DE's in our scheme are not glamour players, no one should expect them to make a lot of splash plays, but I do expect more out of them than what they've given us.

Bottom line, get a true FS get an upgrade at LDE and an ILB to play next to Riley and we'll be a good to great D


Agreed. We need a replacement for Bowen, Fletcher, and a guy who will take Rambo's spot and then we'd have a good defense.
I'm still hung up on Bowen. I need a Woz answer on his contract.

We restructured his contract to make him cheap for this year and pushed his money off into the future.

I think there is going to be a lot of dead money if we release him next year. I can never figure out those $'s correctly, but if that's the case, I see him being here. He may not start, but that depends on who we bring in, how they do and on how Jenkins does and Carriker's health.
Dont release Bowen. Make him a backup.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian23 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
daboyle250 wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
Take Rambo's spot? He's not even starting. Kid shows well and gets put right back on the bench and his errors were rookie errors one would expect.

The way people talk about him now is insane too me.


Who has it now? Biggers? That's worse.


Rambo hasn't played meaningful time since the first 2 games, and the game Brandon was suspended. Besides that, he's been on the bench.
That still doesn't mean they shouldn't sign an upgrade. No one is going to convince me that Rambo is ready to be a full time starter in the NFL yet.

At best he's been average. The team needs a ball hawking playmaker at FS, just like they need a playmaker at ILB. (Those are two things this defense is missing the most) It's a shame we don't have a first round pick because my choice would either be Haha Clinton-Dix or CJ Mosely with our first round pick.


And yet you were willing to hand over the starting gig to Phillip Thomas...

And Rambo is an upgrade over what we have now and giving him that playing time is only going to help him in the future. Instead, we go into next year questioning whether he's worth anything or not.
Thomas I thought could start at SS - not Free.

I don't believe Rambo is better than Meriweather at this point. If we lose the next two games, then yeah, I'd like to see Rambo start at FS in December to evaluate him.

Our defense got better at pass coverage and tackling when Meriweather was put at FS over Rambo.

http://mobile.spotrac.com/nfl/washington-redskins/stephen-bowen/

The way I read Bowen's contract is once we restructures him he's due 15 million in the next two seasons.

How many 7 million dollar back ups do you know?

Maybe he'll take a straight up pay cut, but I doubt it. Again, I'm not sure how much it costs to release him, I think it's 5.2 million - his guaranteed $.

So you want to pay him 5.2 million to go away?

We're in a predicament with that contract as far as I see.
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Brian23


Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 6725
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
daboyle250 wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
Take Rambo's spot? He's not even starting. Kid shows well and gets put right back on the bench and his errors were rookie errors one would expect.

The way people talk about him now is insane too me.


Who has it now? Biggers? That's worse.


Rambo hasn't played meaningful time since the first 2 games, and the game Brandon was suspended. Besides that, he's been on the bench.
That still doesn't mean they shouldn't sign an upgrade. No one is going to convince me that Rambo is ready to be a full time starter in the NFL yet.

At best he's been average. The team needs a ball hawking playmaker at FS, just like they need a playmaker at ILB. (Those are two things this defense is missing the most) It's a shame we don't have a first round pick because my choice would either be Haha Clinton-Dix or CJ Mosely with our first round pick.


And yet you were willing to hand over the starting gig to Phillip Thomas...

And Rambo is an upgrade over what we have now and giving him that playing time is only going to help him in the future. Instead, we go into next year questioning whether he's worth anything or not.
Thomas I thought could start at SS - not Free.

I don't believe Rambo is better than Meriweather at this point. If we lose the next two games, then yeah, I'd like to see Rambo start at FS in December to evaluate him.

Our defense got better at pass coverage and tackling when Meriweather was put at FS over Rambo.

http://mobile.spotrac.com/nfl/washington-redskins/stephen-bowen/

The way I read Bowen's contract is once we restructures him he's due 15 million in the next two seasons.

How many 7 million dollar back ups do you know?

Maybe he'll take a straight up pay cut, but I doubt it. Again, I'm not sure how much it costs to release him, I think it's 5.2 million - his guaranteed $.

So you want to pay him 5.2 million to go away?

We're in a predicament with that contract as far as I see.


Rambo isn't the reason the defense learned to tackle just as he's not the reason they've seemingly forgotten how to do it again.

Why are you bringing up Bowen when I haven't said anything about him at all...
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Woz


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
daboyle250 wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
The pass rush and secondary work together.

Hasn't anyone ever heard of a coverage sack?

Or a turnover forced because of pressure?

The coverage just hasn't been good at ALL! (Except for Hall, as Marcus said, Amerson gets a rookie pass).There's only been 1 or 2 plays all year that I recall the coverage being good and the announcers talking about no one ending open and it caused a coverage sack.

Almost every incomplete pass that qbs have had and interceptions that have been thrown have been because of pressure on the opposing Qb.

That being said, I think the skins need to do both. We have to get a starting caliber FS if we want to be a legitimate top 10 defense.

We need help at DE because of injuries.

We don't need a new NT - Cofield may be a pro bowler this year and if not, he's deserving and we have two young guys developing behind him in Baker and Neild.

The 3-4 DE's in our scheme are not glamour players, no one should expect them to make a lot of splash plays, but I do expect more out of them than what they've given us.

Bottom line, get a true FS get an upgrade at LDE and an ILB to play next to Riley and we'll be a good to great D


Agreed. We need a replacement for Bowen, Fletcher, and a guy who will take Rambo's spot and then we'd have a good defense.
I'm still hung up on Bowen. I need a Woz answer on his contract.

We restructured his contract to make him cheap for this year and pushed his money off into the future.

I think there is going to be a lot of dead money if we release him next year. I can never figure out those $'s correctly, but if that's the case, I see him being here. He may not start, but that depends on who we bring in, how they do and on how Jenkins does and Carriker's health.


They took Bowen's $3.9M salary and converted $3.06M into a signing bonus and pro-rated it over the remainder of the contract (that includes this year) in $1.02M chunks.

As such, Bowen's new contract:
2014
- Age at start of season: 30
- Salary: $4.40M
- Signing Bonus prorations: $2.52M ($1.5 from the original signing bonus)
- Workout bonus: $0.10M
- Cap Hit: $7.02M
- Dead Cap: $5.04M
- Hit/Savings if Cut: $1.98M savings (if absorbing it all in 2014), $4.50M saving (if pro-rating it, incurs a $2.52M dead cap charge in 2015)

2015
- Age at start of season: 31
- Salary: $5.40M
- Signing Bonus prorations: $2.52M ($1.5 from the original signing bonus)
- Workout bonus: $0.10M
- Cap Hit: $8.02M
- Dead Cap: $2.52M
- Hit/Savings if Cut: $5.50M savings

Bowen's status is probably secure for next season, even with a high draft pick going to the defense, simply because we need to spend cap space next year. Barring a massive turnaround, though, that's as far as he goes.
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Woz


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Secondary players under contract after the season ends:
CORNERS
David Amerson
Richard Crawford

SAFETIES
Bacarri Rambo
Trenton Robinson
Phillip Thomas


EXPIRING CONTRACTS
E.J. Biggers
Reed Doughty
Jose Gumbs
DeAngelo Hall
Brandon Meriweather [contract voids after the season (incurs dead cap)]
Jerome Murphy
Josh Wilson

Looking at that list, I think they bring back Doughty (though I wonder if they'll try to squeeze him a la Lorenzo Alexander ... and if he'll walk if they do) and Hall. My concern with Hall is that he's going to be looking for one last big deal. He's good, but not a guy I would break the bank on.

Of course, it's not as bad as the bleeding our linebacking corps is going to do:
Nick Barnett
London Fletcher [contract voids after the season]
Josh Hull
Bryan Kehl
Rob Jackson
Brian Orakpo
Perry Riley
Darryl Tapp

As of right now, if nothing changes, we're replacing 3 out of 4 starting linebackers and an entire starting secondary. For those of you who want to blow up the defense, there you go. Figure it out.
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Brian23


Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 6725
PostPosted: Wed Nov 13, 2013 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
Secondary players under contract after the season ends:
CORNERS
David Amerson
Richard Crawford

SAFETIES
Bacarri Rambo
Trenton Robinson
Phillip Thomas


EXPIRING CONTRACTS
E.J. Biggers
Reed Doughty
Jose Gumbs
DeAngelo Hall
Brandon Meriweather [contract voids after the season (incurs dead cap)]
Jerome Murphy
Josh Wilson

Looking at that list, I think they bring back Doughty (though I wonder if they'll try to squeeze him a la Lorenzo Alexander ... and if he'll walk if they do) and Hall. My concern with Hall is that he's going to be looking for one last big deal. He's good, but not a guy I would break the bank on.

Of course, it's not as bad as the bleeding our linebacking corps is going to do:
Nick Barnett
London Fletcher [contract voids after the season]
Josh Hull
Bryan Kehl
Rob Jackson
Brian Orakpo
Perry Riley
Darryl Tapp

As of right now, if nothing changes, we're replacing 3 out of 4 starting linebackers and an entire starting secondary. For those of you who want to blow up the defense, there you go. Figure it out.


Which is one of the big arguments for a new coaching staff. You're not gonna have a year like next year were you've got a lot of expiring contracts and a crap load of cap space again.
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Woz


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian23 wrote:
Which is one of the big arguments for a new coaching staff. You're not gonna have a year like next year were you've got a lot of expiring contracts and a crap load of cap space again.


Very true. At the same time, unless you're talking only about replacing Haslett, you're going to make the new staff cram uber fast on the outgoing guys to see if they want them back, while scanning the free agent market and scouting the upcoming draftees in about two months to replace something like four to six guys in the two deep (depending if you switch back to the 4-3 or not).

BIG time gamble there.
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mike23md


Joined: 21 Jan 2007
Posts: 7724
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
Which is one of the big arguments for a new coaching staff. You're not gonna have a year like next year were you've got a lot of expiring contracts and a crap load of cap space again.


Very true. At the same time, unless you're talking only about replacing Haslett, you're going to make the new staff cram uber fast on the outgoing guys to see if they want them back, while scanning the free agent market and scouting the upcoming draftees in about two months to replace something like four to six guys in the two deep (depending if you switch back to the 4-3 or not).

BIG time gamble there.


If we stick with the 3-4 I think a few things have to happen.

We have to find a true NT. A guy that can clog the middle and move lineman around.

We have to have true edge rushers that have finesse moves. I love Orakpo but he does not have that instinct of finesse, its pure strength and speed. Usually not a bad thing, but the OLB in a 3-4 has to have the ability to get around OT's with moves and not just speed.

If we could create Ryan Kerrigan again, I would rather have two of him. He can recognize a play to whether its a pass or a run and usually can react quickly. That is what I want to see out of our OLB's.

Our S's have to step up and be able to read plays and react. They have to be able to tackle. I don't think we have that right now.
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Brian23


Joined: 08 Feb 2010
Posts: 6725
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
Which is one of the big arguments for a new coaching staff. You're not gonna have a year like next year were you've got a lot of expiring contracts and a crap load of cap space again.


Very true. At the same time, unless you're talking only about replacing Haslett, you're going to make the new staff cram uber fast on the outgoing guys to see if they want them back, while scanning the free agent market and scouting the upcoming draftees in about two months to replace something like four to six guys in the two deep (depending if you switch back to the 4-3 or not).

BIG time gamble there.


Regardless, they could get guys -they- want. Instead of having to wait 3 years for a turn around, it could be a quick one year turnaround.
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TKellion


Joined: 07 Feb 2005
Posts: 1220
Location: Las Vegas Nevada
PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Woz wrote:
Secondary players under contract after the season ends:
CORNERS
David Amerson
Richard Crawford

SAFETIES
Bacarri Rambo
Trenton Robinson
Phillip Thomas


EXPIRING CONTRACTS
E.J. Biggers
Reed Doughty
Jose Gumbs
DeAngelo Hall
Brandon Meriweather [contract voids after the season (incurs dead cap)]
Jerome Murphy
Josh Wilson

Looking at that list, I think they bring back Doughty (though I wonder if they'll try to squeeze him a la Lorenzo Alexander ... and if he'll walk if they do) and Hall. My concern with Hall is that he's going to be looking for one last big deal. He's good, but not a guy I would break the bank on.

Of course, it's not as bad as the bleeding our linebacking corps is going to do:
Nick Barnett
London Fletcher [contract voids after the season]
Josh Hull
Bryan Kehl
Rob Jackson
Brian Orakpo
Perry Riley
Darryl Tapp

As of right now, if nothing changes, we're replacing 3 out of 4 starting linebackers and an entire starting secondary. For those of you who want to blow up the defense, there you go. Figure it out.
QB (3) – Griffin,Cousins
HB (3) – Morris,Helu
FB (1) – Young
TE (3) – Reed,
WR (5) – Garcon,Hankerson,
LT (2) – Williams,Compton
LG (2) – Lichtensteiger,Leribeye
C (1) – Montgomery
RG (2) – Chester,Gettis
RT (2) – Polumbus
DE (5) –Jenkins,Bowen,Baker
DT (2) – Cofield,Neild
OLB (4) – Kerrigan,
MLB (4) –
CB (6) – Amerson,Crawford
S (5) –Rambo,Phillips,Robinson
K (1) – Forbath
P (1) –
LS (1) - ....................Can you fill in the blanks for anyone with a contract for next season and remove anyone who is a FA
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mike23md wrote:
Woz wrote:
Brian23 wrote:
Which is one of the big arguments for a new coaching staff. You're not gonna have a year like next year were you've got a lot of expiring contracts and a crap load of cap space again.


Very true. At the same time, unless you're talking only about replacing Haslett, you're going to make the new staff cram uber fast on the outgoing guys to see if they want them back, while scanning the free agent market and scouting the upcoming draftees in about two months to replace something like four to six guys in the two deep (depending if you switch back to the 4-3 or not).

BIG time gamble there.


If we stick with the 3-4 I think a few things have to happen.

We have to find a true NT. A guy that can clog the middle and move lineman around.
I think that this would be a great thing to find, but it's not necessary because Cofield is playing at a high level even though he isn't the best fit at NT. I think next offseason, that's a position we will try to upgrade to develop behind Big Ole' Barry.

Quote:
We have to have true edge rushers that have finesse moves. I love Orakpo but he does not have that instinct of finesse, its pure strength and speed. Usually not a bad thing, but the OLB in a 3-4 has to have the ability to get around OT's with moves and not just speed.
while I think we could do better than Orakpo at ROlb (it would take a max contract OLB or a top 20 draft pick) we shouldn't be spending $ on either. Keeping Rak makes sense for our future, he should be affordable compared to someone who's in Demarcus Ware's price range and we don't need to create more holes on our defense by not re-signing Rak.

Quote:
If we could create Ryan Kerrigan again, I would rather have two of him. He can recognize a play to whether its a pass or a run and usually can react quickly. That is what I want to see out of our OLB's.
yeah, but it's not more of a necessity than a true playmaking Fs, an upgrade at LDE and better depth at CB behind Hall and Amerson.

Quote:
Our S's have to step up and be able to read plays and react. They have to be able to tackle. I don't think we have that right now.
yes, this our biggest problem. We're playing a starting SS at FS out of necessity (like we had to do with Landry after ST's death) with Meriweather and the rest of our safeties at this point are only back up material.
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