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Week 7: VIKINGS (1-4) vs. Giants (0-6)
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Vikefan79


Joined: 05 Apr 2005
Posts: 29724
Location: Atlanta
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

husker_vikes3 wrote:
Vikefan79 wrote:
Lil Uno wrote:

The biggest problem with the team is clearly coaching. Between preparation, personnel decisions and scheming, they just can't get it done. This team doesn't develop talent very well and they refuse to admit mistakes. Several players are playing out of position or are underutilized. It's just a huge mess right now, but the talent is there.


I agree. I think the coaches have lost this team and noone is buying into what Frazier is saying anymore. Green Bay is going to beat us badly and Viking fans will want some heads to roll.

I wanted heads to roll after this week.


A Greenbay loss is when the management takes us seriously.
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SemperFeist


Joined: 13 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was painfully obvious that the team went to Josh Freeman way to soon. However with that said I came away very impressed with his pocket awareness and ability to slide around in the pocket, something we haven't from a Viking quarterback in some time. But I was also impressed with the majority of his decisions. Despite his unbelievable inaccuracy, he seemed to recognize single coverage and see the open receivers with ease. If he can get the accuracy under control, the team might have a competent QB.
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Klomp


Joined: 11 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SemperFeist wrote:
It was painfully obvious that the team went to Josh Freeman way to soon. However with that said I came away very impressed with his pocket awareness and ability to slide around in the pocket, something we haven't from a Viking quarterback in some time. But I was also impressed with the majority of his decisions. Despite his unbelievable inaccuracy, he seemed to recognize single coverage and see the open receivers with ease. If he can get the accuracy under control, the team might have a competent QB.


This is what my takeaway was as well. His only poor decision was on the INT. Otherwise, I had no issues with his performance.
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dante9876


Joined: 23 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So I heard that some think management forced Frazier to play freeman last night. Just want to know if Vikings fans buy that at all. It was to soon for him to play.
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SemperFeist


Joined: 13 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
So I heard that some think management forced Frazier to play freeman last night. Just want to know if Vikings fans buy that at all. It was to soon for him to play.

I don't know if Frazier was "told" to play Freeman, but he put himself in a no-win situation when he decided to start Cassel last week. Last week Ponder was cleared to play and was healthy, but the coaches went with Cassel, essentially benching Christian Ponder. As a coach you can't keep flip flopping with quarterbacks so this week it came down to Cassel or Freeman.
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El Raymundo


Joined: 02 Mar 2005
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Location: Northern Virginia
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm pretty patient with coaches and generally hesitate to call for someone's head. I think there are just too many variables that we fans don't see or know about that prevent us from knowing the whole story and who is culpable and who is underperforming.

Having said that, I'm pretty close to hopping on the "clean out the coaches" bandwagon.

I don't mind at all that Freeman was started - even if it was suspected that he would struggle. What I do mind is the apparent regression in the play of quality players and the inability of those players to execute what seems to me to be a pretty vanilla scheme.

Matt Kalil was in the Pro Bowl last year. Are you telling me he just forgot how to play or that he suddenly stopped paying attention in meetings or didn't learn his assignments?

Loadholt was decent last year but looks like a turnstile this year.

The OL as a unit has regressed significantly. Have all five men caught a collective amnesia?

On top of that, why on earth did the Vikings throw the ball 53 times last night? I know we were behind, but fifty-three? That seems excessive, whether struggling to run or not.

From my point of view - and I'm willing to be wrong and willing to be educated by someone who knows more - the problems lay with the coaching staff. I don't think players are given every opportunity to succeed by the coaching staff. They don't seem prepared to play, they don't seem to aware of the nuances of execution and position. The best thing a manager - or a coach - can do to ensure the success of a team is remove obstacles blocking the path to success. That is what I don't see happening in Minnesota.

Again, I'm willing to be wrong.
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disaacs


Joined: 13 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm in the same boat as you, El Ray. However, it's become increasingly clear over the past few weeks that the players have no faith in the coaching staff. And unfortunately, that falls on the one person I think most of us like personally, the head coach. It's readily apparent that the coaches on the staff must not all be on the same page, and that's his responsibility.
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Vikefan79


Joined: 05 Apr 2005
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Location: Atlanta
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

following @musgraves_playcard on Twitter.

funny stuff!
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swiss_vike


Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 777
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frazier stated today that if he had to make change, he wouldn't make any changes to yesterdays game plan for starting or preparing Freeman.
Stated turnovers and lack of forcing turnovers were reason team lost.

I mean really? There's nothing that you as a head coach could have done differently? You were perfect in gameplanning and preparation? All platers fault? Frazier, tge players coach, is loosong is players, this very moment.

May I quote Bill Walsh:
"It's inexcusable to fail because you are unwilling to admit that your way was the wrong way and that a change of course is your path to victory"
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this providence


Joined: 28 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lil Uno wrote:
Adrian Peterson
Jerome Felton
Greg Jennings
Cordaralle Patterson
Kyle Rudolph
John Sullivan
Matt Kalil
Phil Loadholt
Brian Robison
Everson Griffen
Sharrif Floyd
Xavier Rhodes
Harrison Smith


Of those, how many are play at or near (comfortably) the top 16 in their position in the league? List of talent a bit more light:

Adrian Peterson
Jerome Felton
John Sullivan (when healthy, he isn't now nor has he had the propensity to be)
Matt Kalil (short body of work, yes. this year, no)
Harrison Smith

The rest of your list of "talented" players every team in the league can easily boast.

Then you get into the discussion of how many of those 5, at their positions, can make a significant change to the outcome of the game given their skill set relative to the league:

Adrian Peterson
John Sullivan
Harrison Smith

And it was a bit of a struggle to concede that Sullivan's spot deserves to be there but, in theory, his calls at the line should be an asset. But really, John Sullivan isn't changing games.

Lil Uno wrote:
It's just a huge mess right now


Agree.

Lil Uno wrote:
but the talent is there.


Don't see it. Especially in comparison to replacement level league-wide.

No one is going to say that this coaching staff is up to par. But at the same token, I have no idea how people are watching these games and coming away with the conclusion the this team is set up properly (even ignoring the QB elephant in the room) and believe the rest of this roster is close. So much so that all that's needed is a serviceable QB and a quality coaching staff and they'll be on their way.

From my view on my couch, I see a coaching staff that was set up for failure the moment they arrived to camp. I don't see how that's being neglected in any of these coaching staff discussions. Even if I wouldn't bat an eye if the entire staff is jettisoned.
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byuvike88


Joined: 21 Jun 2007
Posts: 580
Location: Shelley Idaho
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SemperFeist wrote:
It was painfully obvious that the team went to Josh Freeman way to soon. However with that said I came away very impressed with his pocket awareness and ability to slide around in the pocket, something we haven't from a Viking quarterback in some time. But I was also impressed with the majority of his decisions. Despite his unbelievable inaccuracy, he seemed to recognize single coverage and see the open receivers with ease. If he can get the accuracy under control, the team might have a competent QB.


Yeah I agree. Not everything Freeman did las night was his fault. Simpson dropped a couple passes, one for a touchdown. But I did like how Freeman moved and stepped into throws(maybe he shouldn't have). I think more time with these receivers will help too.

The team played hard. Our guards struggle a lot. They are to blame as much as Freeman. Defense played well. But the story of Chris Cooks career is that he has good position but can't make the big play. IMO he should have picked off mannings touchdown.

It was an ugly game but there is still hope for some good things to happen.
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vike daddy


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Joined: 12 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Allen's sack of Eli, all the time being held on to by an o-lineman.
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rpmwr19


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That sack was one of the only redeeming things from the game.
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vikingsrule


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rpmwr19 wrote:
That sack was one of the only redeeming things from the game.


Patterson had a brilliant kick return about as deep as one could possibly return it. That guy is something special in space, which makes me hate the kickoff from the 35 rule.
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PeteyPercyPonde


Joined: 06 Sep 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rpmwr19 wrote:
That sack was one of the only redeeming things from the game.


I know Shaerels made the back to back plays that want you to immediately cut him, but that punt return was pretty fancy.

I did mention it before too, it was by far the best tackling I have seen from this group all season long.
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