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My Opinion for Lack of Success on 3rd Down...
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daintrain28


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Joined: 04 Feb 2005
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Location: Bettendorf, Iowa
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:03 pm    Post subject: My Opinion for Lack of Success on 3rd Down... Reply with quote

I remember making a similar argument in 2009 and being shot down by many on this website. I honestly think that my thoughts are coming true.

Green Bay throws the ball WAY too much on short yardage situations. What is even more frustrating is the formations we use. I guess I'll give MM credit for being consistent, but they make no sense.

How many times do we see 3rd and short and Rodgers is in the shotgun? Sometimes with an empty backfield? If we do run in those situations, we go with our lightest back in tosses and draws. More often than not we throw and then cannot figure out why we can't move the chains.

Why not use a goal line offense? 2-3 TEs, Eddie Lacy in the backfield, god-forbid a FB (or maybe even the inverted wishbone we used to see. Bigs on bigs, and put your head down and get 1-2 yards.

To me, this is common sense.
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NormSizedMidget


Joined: 28 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd agree. My issue would be the second we do this with Lacy and we get no push and get stopped, then MM was too obvious.

I really feel like the man can't win.

When he makes a great play call. It was execution or Rodgers or Lacy or the OL.

When a play doesn't work, it wasn't anyone's fault but his play call.
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Kal-El


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
Posts: 3706
Location: Milwaukee, WI. Team: Packers.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:21 pm    Post subject: Re: My Opinion for Lack of Success on 3rd Down... Reply with quote

daintrain28 wrote:
How many times do we see 3rd and short and Rodgers is in the shotgun? Sometimes with an empty backfield? If we do run in those situations, we go with our lightest back in tosses and draws. More often than not we throw and then cannot figure out why we can't move the chains.

Why not use a goal line offense? 2-3 TEs, Eddie Lacy in the backfield, god-forbid a FB (or maybe even the inverted wishbone we used to see. Bigs on bigs, and put your head down and get 1-2 yards.



I think they (MM and Rodgers) seem to believe that passing on 3rd-and-short gives them the option of making a big play downfield if it's there, and if it's not, completing a short pass or having Rodgers scramble to convert isn't too difficult.

Running from the goal-line, OTOH, takes away the big-play opportunity.

I see nothing wrong with that strategy, either... provided you're actually converting consistently.
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MUOH


Joined: 31 Jul 2008
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Location: Tallahassee
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tendency to go shotgun on 3rd and shot is perplexing and the tendency to throw 20 yards plus with around a 50% completion rate is even more perplexing. In short, I think that you were right in 2009 and that you are right in 2013.

Form my perspective the 2013 version of the Packer offense is really struggling to fully integrate passes and runs that fully complement each other. At times the offense has felt very random as to how plays flow and feed off of each other and this random feel has very much been magnified on third and short.

Perhaps having to go with a lot two TE sets for the next couple of weeks will help get the Pack out of what sometimes feels like a forced game plan and help get them into a offense that has a little bit more of tempo and rhythm.
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UpTheSeam85


Joined: 23 Aug 2011
Posts: 835
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:42 pm    Post subject: Re: My Opinion for Lack of Success on 3rd Down... Reply with quote

Kal-El wrote:
daintrain28 wrote:
How many times do we see 3rd and short and Rodgers is in the shotgun? Sometimes with an empty backfield? If we do run in those situations, we go with our lightest back in tosses and draws. More often than not we throw and then cannot figure out why we can't move the chains.

Why not use a goal line offense? 2-3 TEs, Eddie Lacy in the backfield, god-forbid a FB (or maybe even the inverted wishbone we used to see. Bigs on bigs, and put your head down and get 1-2 yards.



I think they (MM and Rodgers) seem to believe that passing on 3rd-and-short gives them the option of making a big play downfield if it's there, and if it's not, completing a short pass or having Rodgers scramble to convert isn't too difficult.

Running from the goal-line, OTOH, takes away the big-play opportunity.

I see nothing wrong with that strategy, either... provided you're actually converting consistently.

Too bad every time we pass on 3rd on short and Rodgers has a clear lane to run for the first, he passes and our receiver drops the ball or he tries to force a throw. I've seen it happen too many times and Rodgers needs to run for the first.
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Ronald323


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 622
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lol GUYS dont forget the packers won.

uhhh everyone around here acting like the packers lost, the packers played 3 very good D in a row in now another very good D vs the browns
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driftwood


Joined: 20 Aug 2008
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Location: Milwaukee
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ronald323 wrote:
lol GUYS dont forget the packers won.

uhhh everyone around here acting like the packers lost, the packers played 3 very good D in a row in now another very good D vs the browns


there is a standard we hold for a team that's window isnt shut yet.


please stand by...
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ChaRisMa


Joined: 08 Mar 2007
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Location: @_G_Tom
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been this way since McCarthy/Rodgers era began. So many times do we see playcall that hurts the conversion percentage AND Rodgers gets greedy downfield instead of taking the 95% chance for a five yard gain and conversion, he opts for the 65% chance at a fifteen yard gain. This is why if I ever hear Finley complain about where the ball is going I'm just gonna side with him..
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ajdodge09


Joined: 01 Mar 2008
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Location: Monterey Bay
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd love to see some draws or just straight up pound it with a 2 or 3 tight end set with Lacy. I think we might have to start doing more of that with our reliable receiving threats dwindling.
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daintrain28


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It isn't even that we can't throw the ball, it's the formation that I have an issue with. Shotgun formation signals throw. A goal line situation signals run, then when you go play action fake, it truly catches the defense with their pants down.
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Iskra


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finley needs to catch the damned ball. And where is this ridiculous 3rd down/goal-line threat that was advertised?

At this point, I wish we had Ed West or Bubba Franks instead.

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Packerraymond


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iskra wrote:
Finley needs to catch the damned ball. And where is this ridiculous 3rd down/goal-line threat that was advertised?

At this point, I wish we had Ed West or Bubba Franks instead.

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Have you watched the games? Laughing
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UpTheSeam85


Joined: 23 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Packerraymond wrote:
Iskra wrote:
Finley needs to catch the damned ball. And where is this ridiculous 3rd down/goal-line threat that was advertised?

At this point, I wish we had Ed West or Bubba Franks instead.

Toolbox!


Have you watched the games? Laughing

lol seriously, sure Finley may not be catching the tough ones right now, but how many of those opportunities does he get? Give him a bigger role in the passing and stick with it and I bet he improves and is a great target. It's not like he doesn't have the talent, remember 09' and early 10'? He just needs the targets down field and a bigger role and if we stick with it, he will get better.

All we throw him are little 5 yard slants or quick passes that are easy catches, though the dude is a MONSTER after the catch.
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Ketchup


Joined: 13 May 2009
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Location: Milwaukee, WI
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UpTheSeam85 wrote:
Packerraymond wrote:
Iskra wrote:
Finley needs to catch the damned ball. And where is this ridiculous 3rd down/goal-line threat that was advertised?

At this point, I wish we had Ed West or Bubba Franks instead.

Toolbox!


Have you watched the games? Laughing

lol seriously, sure Finley may not be catching the tough ones right now, but how many of those opportunities does he get? Give him a bigger role in the passing and stick with it and I bet he improves and is a great target. It's not like he doesn't have the talent, remember 09' and early 10'? He just needs the targets down field and a bigger role and if we stick with it, he will get better.

All we throw him are little 5 yard slants or quick passes that are easy catches, though the dude is a MONSTER after the catch.
Have been very impressed with his YAC this year. Drops are still killing him but he did have a very clutch reception to help seal the game against Baltimore.
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squire12


Joined: 15 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

daintrain28 wrote:
It isn't even that we can't throw the ball, it's the formation that I have an issue with. Shotgun formation signals throw. A goal line situation signals run, then when you go play action fake, it truly catches the defense with their pants down.


I will agree with the formations and personnel packages being issues and that those lead to the play calling issues in the short yardage situations.
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