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Johnny Manziel is not a top tier quarterback prospect.
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Reality_Check


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:03 pm    Post subject: Johnny Manziel is not a top tier quarterback prospect. Reply with quote

I hate to be the guy who keeps beating this drum with the latest mobile flavor of the week quarterback, but apparently it needs to be done.

I see people out there claiming Manziel is a first rounder, which is so laughably absurd I really don't know what to tell them. I've talked to NFL teams who have Manziel "completely off their board." Aside from the physical limitations, which I'll cover in a minute, scouts and personnel guys call Manziel a "liar" and say you "can't trust a word out of his mouth."

On field you have a limited passer, who plays in an extremely quarterback friendly system, the same system and coach made Case Keenum look good.

Manziel plays sandlot football, similar to Tim Tebow. Capitalizing on the gaps in defense and wider field of play due to the collegiate hash mark location. The runs he routinely pulls of in college won't be there at the pro level, where defenses are more consistent in their ability to contain, and more athletic.

Manziel is playing behind one of the top offensive lines in college football, throwing to arguable the best receiver in college football, and has not one, but two excellent running backs behind him.

Mechanically you have a guy that throws flat footed, and has a propensity for the ball to sail on him. He's a one read and take off QB. Simply put, that doesn't fly in the NFL. If you can't progress through your reads you won't survive, no matter how athletic (ask Vince Young).

I continue to see two comparisons for Manziel that absolutely don't apply. Brett Favre and Russell Wilson. Manziel is nothing like Favre, at all, other than possibly in the mentality that he forces balls where he shouldn't, and the Russell Wilson comparisons are just as silly.

Wilson has a 6'3" wingspan, and one of the highest release platforms in football. Wilson has upper tier velocity where Manziel has middling collegiate velocity. Wilson is a multi-read, progressions quarterback who had experience with pro passing concepts, where Manziel is a one read Air Raid QB with mobility.

....and before anyone trots out RG3 as a counter to the mobile Air Raid guy statement, Griffin had elite arm strength, so don't bother with that one.
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PowerElite wrote:
Tannehill is a wide receiver... Wilson is the midget Seahawks QB who I absolutely wouldn't have drafted
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Luke1592


Joined: 11 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Johnny Manziel is not a top tier quarterback prospect. Reply with quote

Reality_Check wrote:
I hate to be the guy who keeps beating this drum with the latest mobile flavor of the week quarterback, but apparently it needs to be done.

I see people out there claiming Manziel is a first rounder, which is so laughably absurd I really don't know what to tell them. I've talked to NFL teams who have Manziel "completely off their board." Aside from the physical limitations, which I'll cover in a minute, scouts and personnel guys call Manziel a "liar" and say you "can't trust a word out of his mouth."

On field you have a limited passer, who plays in an extremely quarterback friendly system, the same system and coach made Case Keenum look good.

Manziel plays sandlot football, similar to Tim Tebow. Capitalizing on the gaps in defense and wider field of play due to the collegiate hash mark location. The runs he routinely pulls of in college won't be there at the pro level, where defenses are more consistent in their ability to contain, and more athletic.

Manziel is playing behind one of the top offensive lines in college football, throwing to arguable the best receiver in college football, and has not one, but two excellent running backs behind him.

Mechanically you have a guy that throws flat footed, and has a propensity for the ball to sail on him. He's a one read and take off QB. Simply put, that doesn't fly in the NFL. If you can't progress through your reads you won't survive, no matter how athletic (ask Vince Young).

I continue to see two comparisons for Manziel that absolutely don't apply. Brett Favre and Russell Wilson. Manziel is nothing like Favre, at all, other than possibly in the mentality that he forces balls where he shouldn't, and the Russell Wilson comparisons are just as silly.

Wilson has a 6'3" wingspan, and one of the highest release platforms in football. Wilson has upper tier velocity where Manziel has middling collegiate velocity. Wilson is a multi-read, progressions quarterback who had experience with pro passing concepts, where Manziel is a one read Air Raid QB with mobility.

....and before anyone trots out RG3 as a counter to the mobile Air Raid guy statement, Griffin had elite arm strength, so don't bother with that one.


Proof?
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simonwayne


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agree 100%
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Jaguarfan


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Johnny Manziel is not a top tier quarterback prospect. Reply with quote

Reality_Check wrote:

Manziel plays sandlot football, similar to Tim Tebow.

Confused
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Reality_Check


Joined: 04 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Johnny Manziel is not a top tier quarterback prospect. Reply with quote

Luke1592 wrote:


Proof?


You can believe or not believe it, there are several on this board who know me, and know what I do.

Don't know how I'd prove a conversation, but those who know me know if I say it, you can take it to the bank,
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PowerElite wrote:
Tannehill is a wide receiver... Wilson is the midget Seahawks QB who I absolutely wouldn't have drafted
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KamTrus20


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree 100%

Just out of curiosity have you had any convos with guys about Braxton Miller or Derek Carr?
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Luke1592


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Johnny Manziel is not a top tier quarterback prospect. Reply with quote

Reality_Check wrote:
Luke1592 wrote:


Proof?


You can believe or not believe it, there are several on this board who know me, and know what I do.

Don't know how I'd prove a conversation, but those who know me know if I say it, you can take it to the bank,



Ok can you tell us who you are then?

I have also talked to some NFL teams several actually and they all have Manziel as a first round QB.
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l3lind golfer


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about Marcus Mariota and a Colin Kapernick comparison as far as NFL QBing?
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Reality_Check


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Johnny Manziel is not a top tier quarterback prospect. Reply with quote

Luke1592 wrote:
Reality_Check wrote:
Luke1592 wrote:


Proof?


You can believe or not believe it, there are several on this board who know me, and know what I do.

Don't know how I'd prove a conversation, but those who know me know if I say it, you can take it to the bank,



Ok can you tell us who you are then?

I have also talked to some NFL teams several actually and they all have Manziel as a first round QB.


You can find me on Twitter <removed>

You'll pardon my skepticism as not a single scout or personnel guy I talked to would commit to a first round grade on Manziel. Not one.
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Tannehill is a wide receiver... Wilson is the midget Seahawks QB who I absolutely wouldn't have drafted
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Reality_Check


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

l3lind golfer wrote:
What about Marcus Mariota and a Colin Kapernick comparison as far as NFL QBing?


It's actually a pretty decent comp, as Mariota will need to sit, and clean up those mechanics and adjust to pro passing concepts.
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PowerElite wrote:
Tannehill is a wide receiver... Wilson is the midget Seahawks QB who I absolutely wouldn't have drafted
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IAmPacman


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well since you seem to know what you're talking about what is your opinion on Brett Hundley? I like him a lot but where do you see his potential being?
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bigboi


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No matter how much you hate Manziel, he will be a good QB in the NFL. The comparison to Tebow can't really be used because Manziel is a much better passer.
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Oregon Ducks


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about a Mariota/RGIII comparison? Or were RGIII's mechanics a lot better than Marcus' when he was coming out?
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skatebeanz


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Peter King said he spoke to two NFL teams that are QB needy. They love Mariota.
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[UMN]


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

obvious thread is obvious
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