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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I_GET_SAX wrote:
SatireSphere wrote:
I hope we find a way to lock Talib up, he's been our best defensive player since Wilfork went down. It would kill me if he went to one of our rivals.


Most definitely. With our draft and development having such poor showings at the corner back and safety position it would be to me at least a huge mistake to let Talib go. He helped in solidifying McCourty as a FS. I would absolutely hate to see him go to say the least. Open up talks very generously stat and get it done. He is that veteran stud at CB we needed and can't afford to let go. He changed our defense for the better.


Sure, the 13 games a year he will give you will be great but chances are that eventually either his work ethic, legal/drug issues or injuries will catch up with him.

1 or 2 years at big money, I'd have no problem with. 4+ years? They will regret that IMO.
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NextBigThing


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Talib tried to shoot someone to death a few years ago, he was just a lousy shot.

Franchise him and see how he is. I would be very hesitant to lock him up after one year.
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I_GET_SAX


Joined: 17 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
I_GET_SAX wrote:
SatireSphere wrote:
I hope we find a way to lock Talib up, he's been our best defensive player since Wilfork went down. It would kill me if he went to one of our rivals.


Most definitely. With our draft and development having such poor showings at the corner back and safety position it would be to me at least a huge mistake to let Talib go. He helped in solidifying McCourty as a FS. I would absolutely hate to see him go to say the least. Open up talks very generously stat and get it done. He is that veteran stud at CB we needed and can't afford to let go. He changed our defense for the better.


Sure, the 13 games a year he will give you will be great but chances are that eventually either his work ethic, legal/drug issues or injuries will catch up with him.

1 or 2 years at big money, I'd have no problem with. 4+ years? They will regret that IMO.


Worry about the long term in the long term and pay him what it costs to keep him here. Our championship window with Brady isn't huge so we need to maximize our team for the short term. Long term contracts can be traded, cut or restructured among others so I am not worried about the longer term effects. He has been a game changer this season.

You know who else has been a game changer this season? And who leads the league in Rec. TDs? And who a lot of media and fans didn't think was worth the years he didn't end up getting but that's why we feel the Pats backed off on him and he got away? Wes Welker. In a season where our offense desperately needed him by evidence of the dropsies struggles. The later hats can be dealt with later. Do what everyone knows we don't and pay dat dude.
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Deadpulse


Joined: 16 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is extremely early, but what do people think of this draft?

2. Anthony Johnson - DT - LSU
2. Austin Seferian-Jenkins - TE - Washington
3. Shayne Skov - ILB - Stanford
4. Chris Burnette - OG - Georgia
4. Daniel McCullers - DT - Tennessee
6. Gabe Ikard - C - Oklahoma
6. Sean Parker - S - Washington
7. L'Damian Washington - WR - Missouri

Trade out of the first
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I_GET_SAX wrote:


Worry about the long term in the long term and pay him what it costs to keep him here. Our championship window with Brady isn't huge so we need to maximize our team for the short term.


The reason the Pats have had a 12 year championship window is because they balance both long and short term considerations. That's not going to change

Quote:
Long term contracts can be traded, cut or restructured among others so I am not worried about the longer term effects.


The issue here is the inherent risk in giving a bad character guy with possibly chronic hip problems a big deal. If we assume Brady has a 3 year window (2014-2016), do you want the salary cap the last two years significantly affected by dead money if Talib's hip goes out permanently or he gets suspended 8-16 games or gets arrested? Or if he gets lazy after getting paid? It's not like they can push that risk into a post-Brady period. Talib is going to want a ton of guaranteed money, which for a guy with his risks is quite worrisome.


Quote:
He has been a game changer this season.


Has he? In the Atlanta game, yes. But otherwise? He's been great, there's no denying that. But the Pats pass D has functioned decently without him and a lot of their early games were against bad QB's or teams with few high end weapons. I think the Pats probably win all of the games they have won - except Atlanta - without him.

Quote:
You know who else has been a game changer this season? And who leads the league in Rec. TDs? And who a lot of media and fans didn't think was worth the years he didn't end up getting but that's why we feel the Pats backed off on him and he got away? Wes Welker. In a season where our offense desperately needed him by evidence of the dropsies struggles. The later hats can be dealt with later. Do what everyone knows we don't and pay dat dude.


Totally different situation. Letting Welker go was the right move. Letting Talib go may or may not be the right move. You don't pay guys on what they have done, you pay them on what they will do. And I think there are very real and very questions about how much Talib will provide over the next 3-4 years. If the Pats do give him a big contract, it will be the riskiest longish-term deal they've made under Belichick.
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Donut


Joined: 13 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deadpulse wrote:
3. Shayne Skov - ILB - Stanford

Skov looked really slow at the start of the yr. If we're taking a mid round LBer I'd rather take a more athletic one and better in coverage to take Hightower off in passing situations.

Deadpulse wrote:
7. L'Damian Washington - WR - Missouri

He's a good guy. Leader of the offense. In the huddles he's the guy pumping up the team and giving speeches. He's real leader since Mauk has been starting. Smart guy and pretty cool overall he's definitely worth a late rounder on.

Though Ej Gaines is star of the team he's the guy from Mizzou we want.

I'd still just franchise him. We offered him a longterm deal over the offseason for what its worth though.
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goldfishwars


Joined: 27 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deadpulse wrote:
This is extremely early, but what do people think of this draft?

2. Anthony Johnson - DT - LSU
2. Austin Seferian-Jenkins - TE - Washington
3. Shayne Skov - ILB - Stanford
4. Chris Burnette - OG - Georgia
4. Daniel McCullers - DT - Tennessee
6. Gabe Ikard - C - Oklahoma
6. Sean Parker - S - Washington
7. L'Damian Washington - WR - Missouri

Trade out of the first


Okay, I'll have a go.

Quote:
2. Anthony Johnson - DT - LSU

I like him, but there are three techs I like more (Timmy Jernigan, Aaron Donald). He's quick off the snap, but doesn't know how to use his hands at this stage. One season as a starter is a concern if he comes out early, which is he probably will as he's at LSU. Not sure the position is as vital with the emergence of Chris Jones.

Quote:
2. Austin Seferian-Jenkins - TE - Washington

I like the position, but this guy was way over-hyped coming into the season. He looks pretty limited athletically, at best a nice red-zone weapon at the next level. Big guy, but doesn't block to his size. As a route runner, he looks pretty stiff.

Quote:
3. Shayne Skov - ILB - Stanford

I love his toughness, kind of reminds me of Brian Cushing in his ability to take on blockers and keep his hands free. I think he's a 3-4 ILB only, doesn't strike me as particularly rangy. Could be a nice replacement for Spikes if he's gone at the end of the year, but not if we're still running a lot of 4-3.

Quote:
4. Chris Burnette - OG - Georgia

Haven't seen enough of him to tell, but I'd prefer to take a Guard early on. I'm pretty big on Gabe Jackson and Cyril Richardson if available.

Quote:
4. Daniel McCullers - DT - Tennessee

I think he'll go much earlier that this, not necessarily because he'll deserve to based on his play - but because you don't often see guys with that kind of size. I wouldn't be against taking him in the 2nd, but I think DaQuan Jones from Penn State is a Nose guard that is a more intriguing player.

Haven't see enough of the others to comment really, seen a bit of Ikard and he seems solid. I love the positions you have, but would probably go for something like this in the same position:

2. Gabe Jackson - G - Mississippi State
I fear we've seen the best of Logan Mankins and other options are solid, low ceiling guys. I'm kind of tired seeing Tom get sacked on third and long. Jackson is an old fashioned road grader, who can move the furniture. Possibly goes in the first, but his game reminds me of Larry Warford who slipped to the third last year.

2. DaQuan Jones - NT - Penn State
Dropped around 20 pounds to near the 320 mark at the start of the year and looks a lot lighter on his feet for it. Huge part of a defensive front that's limiting opposition runner to 1.8 yards per carry. Big-time run stopper who can be developed alongside Vince.

3. Darqueze Dennard - CB - Michigan State
Wouldn't be a bad idea to draft another corner before seeing how the Talib situation shakes out and who better than Alfonzo's cousin? Has a remarkably similar game too, not an elite athlete by any stretch - but tough enough to play man coverage, excellent in run support and a surprisingly effective blitzer too.

4. Jeremiah Attaochu - DE/OLB - Georgia Tech
He can mix it up as a DE in a 4-3 or off the egde in a 3-4 and it would be nice to have another pass-rusher on the team assuming Jake Bequette is unlikely to be bought back.

4. Tyler Larsen - C - Utah State
Big strong dude who can more than hold his ground at the point of attack and is excellent in pass pro one on one.

6. Marcel Jensen - TE - Fresno State
Moveable, athletic Tight End at Fresno who's become one of David Carr's favorite targets this year. There's not a huge number of tight ends to get excited about in this draft and Jensen could be a nice developmental piece.

6. Jay Bromley - DT - Syracuse
Gets into the backfield in a hurry, leaner than your average defensive tackle - but production suggests he could make a living as a 3rd down interior pass specialist at the next level.

7. Ty Zimmerman - S - Kansas State
Limited athletically, but smart, can excel on special teams and is the type of player we have coveted before. Safety can do with some depth.
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NinjaZX6R


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like Dennard's cousin. Similar playing style but I think Alfonzo is better talented.
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dhunt2402


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bromley has really broken out this year, I think he's off the board by the 6th. Love that draft though.
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24isthelaw


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every time I turn on Kansas State, Ty Zimmerman is making plays. I'd say his deep coverage instincts look better than everyone other than Boyett and Jefferson last season.
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rabbisson


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grr. I'm not really a Zimmerman fan, but I think the team likes him.

1. Eric Ebron, TE, North Carolina
2. Travis Swanson, C/G, Arkansas
3. Ryan Carrethers, DT, Arkansas State
4. Jon Halapio, OG, Florida
6. Dri Archer, RB/KR, Kent State
7. Cornelius Lucas, OT, Kansas State
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Richter


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No more slow linebackers. Bad enough with Spikes and Hightower.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RB will need to be a consideration with Ridley and Vereen approaching free agency.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rabbisson wrote:

6. Dri Archer, RB/KR, Kent State


No way will Archer play RB in the NFL.
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24isthelaw


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 10, 2013 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
RB will need to be a consideration with Ridley and Vereen approaching free agency.


Not sure if he's declaring but I really love Jerron Seymour from Vanderbilt.
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