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Week 6 GDT: Its Chief Week, fellas.
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 34680
Location: Boston, MA
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way I look at Pryor's performance this week:

Brutal at times, made some good plays still. It would be hard to judge a QB with the poor OL play but we learned a lot about Pryor imo. At least about where he is right now.

It's definitely a herculean task for any QB to perform with the situation yesterday. But some things Pryor did just made me shake my head. As everyone and their mother has said, he regressed into all his old bad habits. Missed some pre-snap reads, not even including protection calls (which he admitted he missed a few). Missed a few reads on option plays. Poor accuracy on some passes. Those are going to happen every game at least a little bit, even as much as this in a bad game. But the key was how he responded to the pass rush.

I realize when the OL crumbling, you have to have constant vigilance and have a hard time trusting them. At the same time, when the world is running you down, you make the best of what's around. While there were very many plays in which he had defenders breathing down his neck, he had some chances to step up in the pocket and throw or scramble from there. Instead, he reverted to the 1 read and run. Hell, I'm cool with that even some of the time because he might break a big one as a result of that. But he needed to realize when he had those chances to make a play with his arm by stepping up. Russell used to do the same thing.

Another important thing I looked for was how he would respond with decision making and in the pocket when he had some time. Even with it collapsing. That's where the INTs come in. I was hoping he'd be smarter protecting the football in those situations and show he's grown out of some of that. Not the case yet unfortunately.

As for his other issues. Jump passes: need to stop. You aren't Kobe. See what happens when you launch a fade away? Demps knows. Getting plays off: really tough environment. But I feel like his deficiencies in that department were amplified by the hostility rather than solely because of it. To be fair, he had been improving with that before this game though.

All in all, I think this game gave us a good look at where Terrelle Pryor currently is in his overall progression. While it was don't-let-your-friends-know-about-her level of ugly in the 2nd half, he had a good first half. I'm not saying to throw out this game in terms of evaluating the guy, but I don't think its as big of a deal as some people are making it out to be. I'm interested to see if he can shake this off next game.
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raidr4life


Joined: 10 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
^This is what I was trying to say. Wink


You and someone else in here must have the most clean shoes ever from all the coattails you ride hahahaha

Not even going to make the comment on what it really is as it's not appropriate for this forum.
At least I don't have 15 posters on the forum that hate me. Think about that. Funny the most annoying person here can't see it.
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 34680
Location: Boston, MA
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

raidr4life wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
^This is what I was trying to say. Wink


You and someone else in here must have the most clean shoes ever from all the coattails you ride hahahaha

Not even going to make the comment on what it really is as it's not appropriate for this forum.
At least I don't have 15 posters on the forum that hate me. Think about that. Funny the most annoying person here can't see it.


I can think of a few more annoying posters that you're overlooking, but enough of making it personal.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 12363
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
raidr4life wrote:
^This is what I was trying to say. Wink


You and someone else in here must have the most clean shoes ever from all the coattails you ride hahahaha

Not even going to make the comment on what it really is as it's not appropriate for this forum.
At least I don't have 15 posters on the forum that hate me. Think about that. Funny the most annoying person here can't see it.


I can think of a few more annoying posters that you're overlooking, but enough of making it personal.


.... and thinking I care Smile

But yeah, I shouldn't have gone there. My bad, completely.
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Django


Joined: 03 May 2012
Posts: 3013
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 4:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
The way I look at Pryor's performance this week:

Brutal at times, made some good plays still. It would be hard to judge a QB with the poor OL play but we learned a lot about Pryor imo. At least about where he is right now.

It's definitely a herculean task for any QB to perform with the situation yesterday. But some things Pryor did just made me shake my head. As everyone and their mother has said, he regressed into all his old bad habits. Missed some pre-snap reads, not even including protection calls (which he admitted he missed a few). Missed a few reads on option plays. Poor accuracy on some passes. Those are going to happen every game at least a little bit, even as much as this in a bad game. But the key was how he responded to the pass rush.

I realize when the OL crumbling, you have to have constant vigilance and have a hard time trusting them. At the same time, when the world is running you down, you make the best of what's around. While there were very many plays in which he had defenders breathing down his neck, he had some chances to step up in the pocket and throw or scramble from there. Instead, he reverted to the 1 read and run. Hell, I'm cool with that even some of the time because he might break a big one as a result of that. But he needed to realize when he had those chances to make a play with his arm by stepping up. Russell used to do the same thing.

Another important thing I looked for was how he would respond with decision making and in the pocket when he had some time. Even with it collapsing. That's where the INTs come in. I was hoping he'd be smarter protecting the football in those situations and show he's grown out of some of that. Not the case yet unfortunately.

As for his other issues. Jump passes: need to stop. You aren't Kobe. See what happens when you launch a fade away? Demps knows. Getting plays off: really tough environment. But I feel like his deficiencies in that department were amplified by the hostility rather than solely because of it. To be fair, he had been improving with that before this game though.

All in all, I think this game gave us a good look at where Terrelle Pryor currently is in his overall progression. While it was don't-let-your-friends-know-about-her level of ugly in the 2nd half, he had a good first half. I'm not saying to throw out this game in terms of evaluating the guy, but I don't think its as big of a deal as some people are making it out to be. I'm interested to see if he can shake this off next game.


We saw Colin Kaepernick in the first half (obviously not the same zip..) and we saw Joe Webb/Tim Tebow in the 2nd half.

That on switch....considering the defense, enviornment, lack of weapons....was impressive.

Watching the game again...Sure we just scored 7 points in the first half...But I liked the fight and decision making....at the time. The game changed when Pryor was chased down from behind. He should have thrown it away...but then again...it did look like a Horse Collar. Pryor got angry and upset. He lost composure and then went off the deep in the 2nd half.

The 2nd half was one of the worst QBing half's I've ever seen. No command, no leadership, no energy, no idea what he was doing.

With that said.... Olson had to do a better job of play calling upon review. Max protect, more rollouts, etc etc. Something needed to be done.

Obviously Pryor is dreadful with getting the plays in..... but damn I was practically begging for Olson to say screw it and run some no huddle. The noise was obviously a factor so we needed some kind of adjustment. I'm not being hindsight 20/20 when I say this......Olson had MAJOR problems in Tampa with getting plays in from his QBs and with A. Starting slow....B. Lack of 2nd half adjustments.

Is it his fault? No! But it truly shows how with a raw QB...in a tough situation...he cant overcome it. I still believe he would have done well with Palmer. (Although Palmer has been kinda crappy this year to be honest)

Lets see how Pryor bounces back....before I officially bury him as believing we can go into 2014 with him as QB. However, I'm hoping Reggie is scouting the heck out of QBs.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 15297
Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NickButera wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
early43 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
early43 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
early43 wrote:

Obviously the Oline didnt cause the mistakes. The constant presure they gave up led to the poor mistakr by Pryor. Young QB, 5th career start, depleted Oline.. was going to lead to mistakes against that defense. Like BP said, this was a learning experience that Pryor has to learn from. From whaf i saw, Pryor had a good frist half. Once the defense figured our offense out and the pressure started coming, Pryors play went to hell. Happens to a lot of you young QB's.

But go ahead and make an argument that they are not legit excuses and Pryor should just know to stay composed and make smart decisions all the time... Logical.


When is the situation ever perfect for a QB? Flynn was only in his 3rd start against Washington and got no such excuses. Why?

I have said that this is a team game, no one person wins and loses, but all these excuses for Pryor b/c people favor him is absolutely laughable. If it were Flynn, he would be getting DRILLED for this performance.... oh wait, he did against Washington but for Pryor, it's a list of excuses not held on the QBs shoulders LOL. Let's talk about logic, early43, let's chat about it.


We will when yoh start using some.

You just compared Wash defense to KC. Althouvh not directly but made enough of a point to make the comparisson... and now, you will try and backpeddle and make a argument that you didnt, ect, ect... same thing you regarding th subject matter.

Let me know when you find this "logic" so we can continue this argument... Dont worry sir,ill wait.

And im going to go out on a limb here and assuming that if tbis converstauo. Does continue, your following post will starf including gifs, and memes that make a refference to how you think im being irrational, stupid, ect... maybe a face symbol doing the eye roll? Your great at trying cover up your poor arguments and filling your "logical responses" with garbage filler.

Again, i want to point out that you called for a logical conversation from me, while also comparing Wash defense to KC...

And im sure i used "your" in the wrong context a time or two as well so make a point say something about that as well.

... waiting...


You lost like every time in this post:

JTagg7754 wrote:
Where did I say they were the same defenses? I have never even implied that b/c it's totally false. What I did imply is our QB got destroyed behind our offensive line in two different games. One person gets castrated, the other, excused.


Lol I lost and you only respond to one part of my post? And its literally on subject of what I predicted you would do... keep it up pal. I said you would backpeddle and not own uo to the claim that you are trying to make but dont have the courage to outright say it. You compared the two defense, which are no where near comparable... yeah, that logical.



... still waiting


JTagg7754 wrote:

I guess it's how you take it. That notion never crossed my mind. I compared two QBs getting killed behind the same line and how our fans reacted to each. One gets run out, the other gets excuses. That is literally all that I meant from it. To say the defenses are similar is just flat out wrong. While Washington's line is the best part of their defense, it's still not KC's and it's not even close.


But you see it's not the same offensive line.

You say you watch people making excuses for Pyor because they like him, that's not what I'm reading at all. I see people trying to show people like yourself a sad fact of the game. Previously, I saw Flynn get destroyed behind a bad o-line, and then I saw Pryor have success behind that same o-line. And he's done it in multiple games thus far, that comparison ends there.

The 'excuse' I'm seeing is that yesterday's o-line wasn't that. It was something so atrociously bad that it can't even be compared with any past circumstance, on any other team in the league even. A 3rd string LT, 3rd string practice squad RT, our guard who hasn't played Center since 2007 in Europe, a practice squad guard and another back up guard. This isn't an excuse. It's a sad fact that needs to be addressed when talking about Pryor bad performance. They directly correlate with each other. To pretend they don't is the laughable part.

You point out that Pryor made bad decisions. They point out that he was effected by the o-line. Both are true. Would Pryor have made that many of those bad throws, or that many run backs if he hadn't been behind that line? Would he have looked that bad if he had a slightly better o-line? The only answer we have lies in the past 4 games. In which he looked a lot better, and made much fewer mistakes. Yesterday's game was something so extreme that it has to be looked at in it's own light.


this and thanks for the part i enlarged cause i was trying to figure out where all these guys were on the depth chart.

plus ill add...

-Gurode is a injury waiting to happen. did we really enter the game with only one OC? Who was behind Breezell? condo?

-I doubt Breezzell has spent any time at OC since he has been in oak and he did ok under fire. but if he couldnt hear tp why were we in shotgun most of the time? I was begging for olsen to put tp under center. People thought tp couldnt see the clock but most of the time breezzell couldnt hear tp.

-imo this season tp has shown he can be accurate when given at least a
"C-" grade o-line. When Gurode and the RT went down the o-line became a "D-" one and no qb could do anything with that.

btw i turned it off in the 3rd fwiw
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NCOUGHMAN > all of you


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This is football, not pussology 101
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Baggabonez


Joined: 29 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Pryor should definitely finish the season and enter the next as the incumbent starter. Imvho, the Raiders have an opportunity to win MOST games with his style. That being said, didn't the same OL that everyone is attributing his 4th quarter meltdown to the same OL that held water for 3 quarters?

I think we are seriously discounting KC's scheme. IF opponents are able to deploy the same scheme KC did it won't be a regression but insight of the limitations of Pryor's style. Unless Pryor learns to move in the pocket and hit WRs while defenders are around him.
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NCOUGHMAN


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

imo the melt down started when the oc and rt went down. kc smelled blood in the water and the rest is history. we held kc for the first and barely the 2nd.
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Darkness


Joined: 24 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baggabonez wrote:
I think Pryor should definitely finish the season and enter the next as the incumbent starter. Imvho, the Raiders have an opportunity to win MOST games with his style. That being said, didn't the same OL that everyone is attributing his 4th quarter meltdown to the same OL that held water for 3 quarters?

I think we are seriously discounting KC's scheme. IF opponents are able to deploy the same scheme KC did it won't be a regression but insight of the limitations of Pryor's style. Unless Pryor learns to move in the pocket and hit WRs while defenders are around him.


I think you're giving too much credit to their scheme and not enough to their overwhelming talent advantage. It's safe to say we have the worst tackle tandem in football, but we've been able to get by because the 4 teams Pryor played before KC all had below average pass rushes. In an environment like KC against Hali and Houston with our backup C and RT going down during the game, we were just extremely outmatched and Pryor got more and more rattled as the game went along.
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Professor Oak


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't really have any gripes with Greg Olsen's play calling, but why do we rarely ever have runs to the outside? It seems like every touch our RB's get are inside runs or handoffs from the read option. I think McFadden's best plays are when he can get outside.

I can't even remember the last time I saw a designed pitch to the outside.
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Dessie


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Professor Oak wrote:
I don't really have any gripes with Greg Olsen's play calling, but why do we rarely ever have runs to the outside? It seems like every touch our RB's get are inside runs or handoffs from the read option. I think McFadden's best plays are when he can get outside.

I can't even remember the last time I saw a designed pitch to the outside.


Not having Guards that can get out and pull and having tackles that are the worst in the league, probably has something to do with it.
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early43


Joined: 06 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dessie wrote:
Professor Oak wrote:
I don't really have any gripes with Greg Olsen's play calling, but why do we rarely ever have runs to the outside? It seems like every touch our RB's get are inside runs or handoffs from the read option. I think McFadden's best plays are when he can get outside.

I can't even remember the last time I saw a designed pitch to the outside.


Not having Guards that can get out and pull and having tackles that are the worst in the league, probably has something to do with it.


This.

Easily the least talented Oline in the league. And Id actually rank our Guard tandem ahead of our Tackle tandem as in terms of league worse.
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early43


Joined: 06 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
early43 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
early43 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
early43 wrote:

Obviously the Oline didnt cause the mistakes. The constant presure they gave up led to the poor mistakr by Pryor. Young QB, 5th career start, depleted Oline.. was going to lead to mistakes against that defense. Like BP said, this was a learning experience that Pryor has to learn from. From whaf i saw, Pryor had a good frist half. Once the defense figured our offense out and the pressure started coming, Pryors play went to hell. Happens to a lot of you young QB's.

But go ahead and make an argument that they are not legit excuses and Pryor should just know to stay composed and make smart decisions all the time... Logical.


When is the situation ever perfect for a QB? Flynn was only in his 3rd start against Washington and got no such excuses. Why?

I have said that this is a team game, no one person wins and loses, but all these excuses for Pryor b/c people favor him is absolutely laughable. If it were Flynn, he would be getting DRILLED for this performance.... oh wait, he did against Washington but for Pryor, it's a list of excuses not held on the QBs shoulders LOL. Let's talk about logic, early43, let's chat about it.


We will when yoh start using some.

You just compared Wash defense to KC. Althouvh not directly but made enough of a point to make the comparisson... , ect, ect... same thing you regarding th subject matter.

Let me know when you find this "logic" so we can continue this argument... Dont worry sir,ill wait.

And im going to go out on a limb here and assuming that if tbis converstauo. Does continue, your following post will starf including gifs, and memes that make a refference to how you think im being irrational, stupid, ect... maybe a face symbol doing the eye roll? Your great at trying cover up your poor arguments and filling your "logical responses" with garbage filler.

Again, i want to point out that you called for a logical conversation from me, while also comparing Wash defense to KC...

And im sure i used "your" in the wrong context a time or two as well so make a point say something about that as well.

... waiting...


You lost like every time in this post:

JTagg7754 wrote:
Where did I say they were the same defenses? I have never even implied that b/c it's totally false. What I did imply is our QB got destroyed behind our offensive line in two different games. One person gets castrated, the other, excused.


Lol I lost and you only respond to one part of my post? And its literally on subject of what I predicted you would do... keep it up pal. I said you would backpeddle and not own uo to the claim that you are trying to make but dont have the courage to outright say it. You compared the two defense, which are no where near comparable... yeah, that logical.



... still waiting


JTagg7754 wrote:

I guess it's how you take it. That notion never crossed my mind. I compared two QBs getting killed behind the same line and how our fans reacted to each. One gets run out, the other gets excuses. That is literally all that I meant from it. To say the defenses are similar is just flat out wrong. While Washington's line is the best part of their defense, it's still not KC's and it's not even close.


Quote:
and now, you will try and backpeddle and make a argument that you didnt
...

Bravo sir, Bravo.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

early43 wrote:

Bravo sir, Bravo.


Quit trolling, kid. How in the world are you even going to attempt to tell me what my thoughts and intentions were?? That is beyond stupid. Give it up.
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early43


Joined: 06 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
early43 wrote:

Bravo sir, Bravo.


Quit trolling, kid. How in the world are you even going to attempt to tell me what my thoughts and intentions were?? That is beyond stupid. Give it up.


LOL Im trolling?? Just trying to get you to be an adult and continue that conversation you wanted to have about logical responses... Being logical, rational, and mature is obviously too much to ask of you when the topic involves Pryor.

And I don't attempt to explain your thoughts and intentions because you are ignorant. And apparently a coward because you called me out remember:

Quote:
Let's talk about logic, early43, let's chat about it.


... still waiting for this "logic" from you... think its going to be a long wait tho.

Also, this feeling you have about me trolling is what most of this forum feels in regards to you when the topic involves TP... Go ahead and say you don't care what others think, even though we all know that's not true since you will take the time to say as much in your following post...
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