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Just how good is this Defence ?

 
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LondonBengal


Joined: 07 Feb 2010
Posts: 3436
Location: London, England, UK
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:58 am    Post subject: Just how good is this Defence ? Reply with quote

I missed watching the Pats game live, but have just watched the game over. As has been said, our defence was stunningly good; but just how good ?

Looking at the numbers, in our 3 home victories, the defence has held Roethlisburger, Rogers and Brady to a combined crazy 8 of 37 on 3rd down. Defence on 3rd down has been our achilles heel in recent years.

We pretty much all wanted Maualuga and Mays gone this last off-season, but both have improved hugely to contribute to that number. People say that Dalton can't improve, but here's the evidence with Maualuga and Mays that you can improve after year 3/3 with good coaching.

Time will tell, but just how good is our 'D' ?
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Carson4MVP


Joined: 30 Mar 2007
Posts: 1714
Location: Hilliard
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Just how good is this Defence ? Reply with quote

LondonBengal wrote:
I missed watching the Pats game live, but have just watched the game over. As has been said, our defence was stunningly good; but just how good ?

Looking at the numbers, in our 3 home victories, the defence has held Roethlisburger, Rogers and Brady to a combined crazy 8 of 37 on 3rd down. Defence on 3rd down has been our achilles heel in recent years.

We pretty much all wanted Maualuga and Mays gone this last off-season, but both have improved hugely to contribute to that number. People say that Dalton can't improve, but here's the evidence with Maualuga and Mays that you can improve after year 3/3 with good coaching.

Time will tell, but just how good is our 'D' ?


What does Dalton's talent have to do with a post about the defense? We have discussed this ad nauseum in the past... Let's not go down that road in this discussion.

I think if you take into account the depth as well as the starters talent on this defense, it is the best in the NFL. We have starter level talent at pretty much every backup position across the board. How many teams can wave goodbye to a multiyear double digit sack guy like MJ93 as we will at the end of the year in his prime, and be ok with it. The Bengals are going to do that. While there is a drop from him to Gilberry and Hunt, those are 2 VERY GOOD backup's to have to compete to fill in for him. Not many if any teams have that depth with talent.
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theJ


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*Sigh*

I'm tired of talking about Dalton. Enough talk. Time to see what happens in weeks 6-17. Then we can talk again.

As for the defense. It's definitely a top 5 unit. I'll stop short of claiming it's the best in the league, because even with all the talent they've struggled in stretches this season. Right now, KC is clearly playing the best. But it's early yet.
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RedGreenShow


Joined: 06 Feb 2012
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Location: Nati
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bordering on elite forsure. Most definitely top 3 right now.

Defensive line looks vicious. Dunlap has turned into a fine pro. I think we made the right decision paying him over MJ93. Margus Hunt looked decent in his first action. He needs to turn his motor up and get after it. I'm still waiting for Geno to have a dominate performance.
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Beck Bristow


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Enough to be where we want.
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MrCincinnati


Joined: 10 Jul 2013
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Location: Hamilton, OH
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In one word: Crafty

There isn't alot of talent on this defense IMO. Its all thanks to Zimmer. Take him away and the defense is Mediocre at best.

Sure you got a couple of big name players, but other than that, not alot of good players, just great coaching.

But as so long as Zimmer is here, the defense will always keep this team in contention every year. This guy can NEVER leave cincinnati. I don't care what it takes to keep him here, he is the cornerstone of this team.
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Anonymous3


Joined: 09 Oct 2011
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Location: IU
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrCincinnati wrote:
In one word: Crafty

There isn't alot of talent on this defense IMO. Its all thanks to Zimmer. Take him away and the defense is Mediocre at best.


Geno Atkins, MJ93, Dunlap, Peko, Hall, Burfict, Nelson, Iloka, etc, etc...


I'd say there's a lot of talent on this defense. Take away Zimmer and we're still easily a top 15 unit. Easily
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Carson4MVP


Joined: 30 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MrCincinnati wrote:
In one word: Crafty

There isn't alot of talent on this defense IMO. Its all thanks to Zimmer. Take him away and the defense is Mediocre at best.
Sure you got a couple of big name players, but other than that, not alot of good players, just great coaching.

But as so long as Zimmer is here, the defense will always keep this team in contention every year. This guy can NEVER leave cincinnati. I don't care what it takes to keep him here, he is the cornerstone of this team.


There is a TON of talent on this roster defensively. I think we have the best defensive line in the NFL. Are they all top 5 pick talent? No. But we got some steals throughout the last several drafts and I think we have the best DL in football.

At LB there isn't a ton of talent like at DL, but we do have the NFL tackle leader right now, a former defensive MVP and a high 2nd round pick starting for us with decent depth behind them.

At DB, we're old. The youth we have at the position isn't anything special. Hall had his 1-2 great seasons early on, but looks like a different CB post achilles tear. However, when you have a dominant DL, any coach will tell you, your secondary is good because of this. Just about any CB in the league can cover for 3-4 seconds. As long as your DL is getting pressure within 4 seconds, your secondary is going to be average at worst.
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INbengalfan


Joined: 21 Jan 2006
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Location: Richmond, IN
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The defense has been good enough to win all of our home games. Now let's see a few dominating performances on the road.


And for what it's worth, NOTHING was said about Dalton in the first post, other than a simple comparison to Mays and Maualuga. And both have played much better in limited (Rey) or new (Mays) roles in this defense.
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Hokie


Joined: 01 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really, really good. Defensive line, when healthy, is one of the 3-5 best in the NFL. The secondary is very underrated. Hall has developed into a top 10 CB, Newman is vastly underrated (every Dallas fan was thrilled to see him sign here; oops!), Nelson is solid and Iloka has played very well. Even Mays is showing a lot of improvement this season; his coverage skills look vastly improved.

We're a little weak at LB outside of Burifict, even though Rey has had a great start to the season. Harrison simply isn't a good fit for the 4-3 defense, but I like the veteran presence he provides. Our depth at LB is very weak however; one injury to Burifict and we're in serious trouble. We miss Lamur.

We have a top 5 defense overall, possibly top 3. The defense is going to be good enough to finally get Zimmer a head coaching gig this off-season, IMO.
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LondonBengal


Joined: 07 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

INbengalfan wrote:
The defense has been good enough to win all of our home games. Now let's see a few dominating performances on the road.


And for what it's worth, NOTHING was said about Daltonin the first post, other than a simple comparison to Mays and Maualuga. And both have played much better in limited (Rey) or new (Mays) roles in this defense.


Its good to see Mays and Maualuga playing better in definite new roles. Rey seems to be coming out on 3rd down more, and Mays has lined up as a SLB almost. Maybe these guys are getting their heads on straight finally.

I think we are seeing Zimmer sprinkle a little magic dust on those two.

If you take away the 16 points off turnovers in the Packer game, we have conceded 10, 14 and 6 points to R'burger, Rogers and Brady combined for an average of 10 points conceded per home game. That average will win you some games.

Promise not to mention the 'D' word again.
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LondonBengal


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hokie wrote:
We're a little weak at LB outside of Burifict, even though Rey has had a great start to the season. Harrison simply isn't a good fit for the 4-3 defense, but I like the veteran presence he provides. Our depth at LB is very weak however; one injury to Burifict and we're in serious trouble. We miss Lamur.

Agreed.

The Boley signing is an interesting one; I was always quite impressed with him up in NJ, if he can stay healthy he might work out. He can play all the spots.
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MrCincinnati


Joined: 10 Jul 2013
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Location: Hamilton, OH
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anonymous3 wrote:
MrCincinnati wrote:
In one word: Crafty

There isn't alot of talent on this defense IMO. Its all thanks to Zimmer. Take him away and the defense is Mediocre at best.


Geno Atkins, MJ93, Dunlap, Peko, Hall, Burfict, Nelson, Iloka, etc, etc...


I'd say there's a lot of talent on this defense. Take away Zimmer and we're still easily a top 15 unit. Easily


I said "A COUPLE" of big names. I know Atkins and Michael Johnson are good. But it did take Johnson a while to develop. Dunlap it was all him early on. Hall and Peko weren't developed by Zimmer so those guys are the same. Everyone else its because of Zimmer.

Burfict was an undrafted rookie, Nelson was a bust with the jags and then gets traded here and all of a sudden is a stud. Iloka hasnt proven anything yet.....

Guys like Newman and Jones are also good now because of Zimmer. I'm just saying some of these guys were nobodies until Zimmer used them correctly.
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MrCincinnati


Joined: 10 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carson4MVP wrote:
MrCincinnati wrote:
In one word: Crafty

There isn't alot of talent on this defense IMO. Its all thanks to Zimmer. Take him away and the defense is Mediocre at best.
Sure you got a couple of big name players, but other than that, not alot of good players, just great coaching.

But as so long as Zimmer is here, the defense will always keep this team in contention every year. This guy can NEVER leave cincinnati. I don't care what it takes to keep him here, he is the cornerstone of this team.


There is a TON of talent on this roster defensively. I think we have the best defensive line in the NFL. Are they all top 5 pick talent? No. But we got some steals throughout the last several drafts and I think we have the best DL in football.

At LB there isn't a ton of talent like at DL, but we do have the NFL tackle leader right now, a former defensive MVP and a high 2nd round pick starting for us with decent depth behind them.

At DB, we're old. The youth we have at the position isn't anything special. Hall had his 1-2 great seasons early on, but looks like a different CB post achilles tear. However, when you have a dominant DL, any coach will tell you, your secondary is good because of this. Just about any CB in the league can cover for 3-4 seconds. As long as your DL is getting pressure within 4 seconds, your secondary is going to be average at worst.


The DL is very talented, and the only other names like James Harrison and Leon Hall are what jumps out on the team

Gilberry, Burfict, Nelson, Newman, and Jones are perfect examples of players that became good because of Zimmer IMO.
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ochocinco4pres


Joined: 04 Apr 2007
Posts: 23468
Location: Indianapolis Indiana
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

We still have some work to do, but this defense is a lot of fun to watch. They havE been consistent all year unlike our offense. Definitely the most talented defense we have had in a long time
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