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Cypher


Joined: 04 Mar 2008
Posts: 2287
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boondock wrote:
Rivera is not an offensive guy and probably knows nothing about running an effective offense and his choice of coordinators is poor. I think if we had gotten Hue Jackson, it's a different story in Carolina this year. I understand the deal with continuity with Shula, but Shula would have been just fine serving as the QB coach while Jackson was the OC.


My greatest fear with firing Rivera is that our phenomenal defense collapses. Everywhere Rivera has been, the defense has been tremendous. If we have to have a bottom-15 defense again just to fix Cam, in my opinion, it's not at all worth it.
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faccda01


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cypher wrote:
boondock wrote:
Rivera is not an offensive guy and probably knows nothing about running an effective offense and his choice of coordinators is poor. I think if we had gotten Hue Jackson, it's a different story in Carolina this year. I understand the deal with continuity with Shula, but Shula would have been just fine serving as the QB coach while Jackson was the OC.


My greatest fear with firing Rivera is that our phenomenal defense collapses. Everywhere Rivera has been, the defense has been tremendous. If we have to have a bottom-15 defense again just to fix Cam, in my opinion, it's not at all worth it.


We have a very large amount of talent on our D, as opposed to our offense where outside of Cam/Smith/Olsen/Williams we don't have much. I also would love to see McDermott stay on as DC. People don't realize that while he was fired from Philly, he didn't do a bad job there. Their D has only gotten worse since he left, and he was following a legand in the late Jim Johnson, who may have been one of the best DCs of all time.
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panattack86


Joined: 03 Feb 2009
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Location: Rockford,IL
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HC: Jay Gruden
OC/QB Coach: John Gruden
DC: Sean McDermott

2014 draft
1. Sammy Watkins WR
2. David Yankey OG/OT
3. Seantrel Henderson OT
4-7 BPA

Maybe sign Incognito if the price is right to solidfy the line. A younger FA CB if one is available.

This would be perfect to me.
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Cypher


Joined: 04 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First pick almost has to be an LT, unless all the top ones are gone.
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ericr0319


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i couldnt see us passing on jake matthews or taylor lewan with where we will be picking. unless we really like mike evans or sammy watkins.

at this point where we stand these should be the only 4 players in the discussion to be drafted. We need two OL and two WR before we even need 1 CB.
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ericr0319


Joined: 31 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

also this is a huge year for CB. if we are picking in the top 10 (maybe top 5), we can get 1st round talent CB in the 2nd round in any other year.
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boondock


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ericr0319 wrote:
i couldnt see us passing on jake matthews or taylor lewan with where we will be picking. unless we really like mike evans or sammy watkins.

at this point where we stand these should be the only 4 players in the discussion to be drafted. We need two OL and two WR before we even need 1 CB.


If it came down to OT vs. WR, we're going OT every time. Games are won in the trenches and a good line can improve WRs be allowing the QB to stay upright in the pocket to make good throws.
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Toughguy77


Joined: 04 Sep 2009
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Location: South Cackalack
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ericr0319 wrote:
i couldnt see us passing on jake matthews or taylor lewan with where we will be picking. unless we really like mike evans or sammy watkins.

at this point where we stand these should be the only 4 players in the discussion to be drafted. We need two OL and two WR before we even need 1 CB.


Sammy is a huge jump from Evans. I would consider Evans right now to be a mid second rounder as of right now
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Toughguy77


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boondock wrote:
ericr0319 wrote:
i couldnt see us passing on jake matthews or taylor lewan with where we will be picking. unless we really like mike evans or sammy watkins.

at this point where we stand these should be the only 4 players in the discussion to be drafted. We need two OL and two WR before we even need 1 CB.


If it came down to OT vs. WR, we're going OT every time. Games are won in the trenches and a good line can improve WRs be allowing the QB to stay upright in the pocket to make good throws.


I don't think you can pass up on talent like Sammy Watkins if he's laying right in your lap. I am done taking 2nd-3rd round receivers that never pan out
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boondock


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Toughguy77 wrote:
boondock wrote:
ericr0319 wrote:
i couldnt see us passing on jake matthews or taylor lewan with where we will be picking. unless we really like mike evans or sammy watkins.

at this point where we stand these should be the only 4 players in the discussion to be drafted. We need two OL and two WR before we even need 1 CB.


If it came down to OT vs. WR, we're going OT every time. Games are won in the trenches and a good line can improve WRs be allowing the QB to stay upright in the pocket to make good throws.


I don't think you can pass up on talent like Sammy Watkins if he's laying right in your lap. I am done taking 2nd-3rd round receivers that never pan out


Not saying you are wrong in any way. Sammy is a talent, but his play does not affect every play; a OT does. Sammy would be hard to pass up and wouldn't be hard pressed if we got him over Lewan. I just think Lewan is more valuable to us right now simply due to his play affecting every play, keeping our QB upright; which can make the WRs better at the end of the day. OT play dictates the run game, passing game; both.

The case could be made that teams have to game plan around Sammy, but teams also know that at some point we have to do something different than throw to Watkins. That's why you see WRs often go for 10 catches, 150 yards one game, then 2 catches for 15 yards the next. They just do not get involved enough to warrant a pick over an OT at times.

At this juncture, we need improvement at WR and OL. I'll take it any way we can get it.
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Grizzly224


Joined: 29 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand your point that the OL is a position that effects every play more than a WR does but to get a stud WR has more effect on the O more than just the times he catches that ball.

Put a stud wr on the edge and the RBs will see less stacked boxes.
Put a stud WR on the edge and you open up the swing passes and screens more.
Put a WR on the edge and you see more single coverage on your other WRs.

The same could be said for a stud CB. Getting a guy that has the ability to cover the other teams stud WR man on man and you give the rest of your D the ability to make more plays.
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faccda01


Joined: 25 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grizzly224 wrote:
I understand your point that the OL is a position that effects every play more than a WR does but to get a stud WR has more effect on the O more than just the times he catches that ball.

Put a stud wr on the edge and the RBs will see less stacked boxes.
Put a stud WR on the edge and you open up the swing passes and screens more.
Put a WR on the edge and you see more single coverage on your other WRs.

The same could be said for a stud CB. Getting a guy that has the ability to cover the other teams stud WR man on man and you give the rest of your D the ability to make more plays.


I understand where you are coming from with this, but I tend to look at it the opposite way. I think that good teams are built from the lines out, and I think that is also the approach that Gettleman is taking. When you have a great OL, you give the QB time to find the WRs. No CB in the world can cover a WR forever. A good OL will also give your RB holes and allow for more diverse playcalling

As for the DL, I think we've already seen that a bad secondary can be made to look good by a great front 7. I think that CB is perhaps the most overrated position in football. While it is great to have a guy like Revis or Peterson, getting constant pressure on the QB will make any CB look good. I do think we need to address that position, but WR and OL is far more of a pressing need.
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Grizzly224


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that a team is built from the inside out but I think you have an easier time finding good OL later in the draft than finding good position players. The drop off from the #1 WR to the #5 WR is much greater than the drop off from the #1 OT to the #5 OT in most cases.

I also agree with you on CB being an overrated positions but there are a few guys that do change the game with their play. Could you imagine a Joe Haden or a Richard Sherman on our D right now. We could rush more than just the front 4, call more blitz packages knowing that we had a sencond line of defence.
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Cypher


Joined: 04 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grizzly224 wrote:
I agree that a team is built from the inside out but I think you have an easier time finding good OL later in the draft than finding good position players. The drop off from the #1 WR to the #5 WR is much greater than the drop off from the #1 OT to the #5 OT in most cases.


Honestly that couldn't be more wrong. If you pick an LT outside of the top 10-15, it's a complete crapshoot.
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boondock


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cypher wrote:
Grizzly224 wrote:
I agree that a team is built from the inside out but I think you have an easier time finding good OL later in the draft than finding good position players. The drop off from the #1 WR to the #5 WR is much greater than the drop off from the #1 OT to the #5 OT in most cases.


Honestly that couldn't be more wrong. If you pick an LT outside of the top 10-15, it's a complete crapshoot.


Agreed. Everything is virtually a crapshoot outside the top 10, that's why teams pay a pretty penny to move up in the draft, especially the top 10. Heck even the top 10 is a crapshoot; sure the higher picked players generally are put in better positions or have better chances to succeed.

A lot of people thought Cam Newton was not even a 1st round QB, but we took him because of his ceiling; if played right, could lurk around the GOAT due to his physical prowess. Now, if he could just sort out the mental.
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