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Bridgewater or Clowney?
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RandyMossIsBoss


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For some reason I keep thinking of our 3-4 as only a stop gap (probably because of how horrible and makeshift it looks), so yeah nevermind for us the answer is Bridgewater pretty easily. As I said it's very close, but when you throw in the fact that Clowney will be playing a slightly different position if we drafted him is enough to make me swap from him to Bridgewater.
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Remixxxxxxx


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trade the pick to Cleveland for both their first round picks and future compensation - take Barr with Cleveland's pick, and take Boyd/Mariotta/HaHa with the Colts pick.
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Bednarik60


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johnny Manzeil /troll
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Bednarik60


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would trade down and grab Mariota.

If it was some sorta of epic trade down and Mariotas gone, ide take McCarron. U mad?
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Kiltman


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bednarik60 wrote:
I would trade down and grab Mariota.

If it was some sorta of epic trade down and Mariotas gone, ide take McCarron. U mad?

McCarron would test my fandom
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Nabbs4u


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Broadway Joe wrote:
How do you not take a possible franchise QB when given the chance?

We need a QB of te future badly and this is QB driven league. I would be extatic (it's that the word?) if we were to come out of the draft with a top talent at QB.


It's never guaranteed that he becomes that Franchise QB you all believe him to be. It's not just black or white. Yes a Franchise QB is a game changer. That's also what the teams who took Akili Smith, Tim Couch, Jamarcus Russell, Vince Young, David Carr, Alex Smith, Ryan Leaf , Mark Sanchez , Sam Bradford among numerous others thought as well. Give me the "possible" once in a generation Pass Rusher in a draft where QB is in abundance. Just as it was in this past draft you will see QB's intentionally drop in the draft because 80% of the teams in the NFL either have their Franchise QB or have already rolled the dice on a young QB in hopes of becoming one the past few years. Give me the next Ware/Taylor hybrid! Unfortunately we won't get either.
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marky_b27


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On Clowney - he's this once in a generation defensive player, but then the great defensive players in the league, how many of them were drafted in the top 5?
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Kiltman


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Historically speaking a lot of the game's most dominate defensive players have been top five picks.....the same can't be said for QBs...they are all over the place.

In the league today three of the top Qbs weren't selected in the first, Rodgers was picked near the end of the round, and Peyton was the "once in a generation prospect" who stands alone as 1st overall

Looking at the last 10/11 drafts we had 2 maybe 3 QBs be the best top ten pick....and only two at the most are top ten QBs in the league

2002: Julius Peppers beats David Carr
2003: Andre Johnson wins.....but for the sake of this Carson Palmer
2004: You have Fitzgerald, Eli, and Phillip Rivers.....but Sean Taylor was probably the most special player out of that group.
2005: No brainer Demarcus Ware over anyone else, especially Alex Smith
2006: Tough argument can be made for many players....just not any of the QBs
2007: Ha Jamarcus Russell...Willis and Revis just miss out on the top ten....so Adrian Peterson obviously
2008: Matt Ryan by default....pretty terrible draft class looking at it.
2009: BJ Raji would beat out Stafford by a hair.....eh push
2010: At this point Suh over Bradford....but JPP or Earl Thomas have been better who were taken soon after.
2011: Von Miller, AJ Green, Julio Jones, Aldon Smith, Patrick Peterson....take your pick over The leagues #1 entertainer.
2012: Andrew Luck obvi
2013: Too early to tell....but no QBs were taken in the first anyway.

12 of the top 15 defensive players playing now were 1st round picks. Geno Atkins, Richard Sherman, and Navorro Bowman were the only ones who were not.


Reggie White, Bruce Smith, Mean Joe Greene, and Lawrence Taylor were all top 5 picks.....all four of them were some of the games most dominate players (regardless of what side they played on). Dan Marino was the highest drafted QB (#27) who would make a top QB list besides Peyton. Montana, Brady, Unitas, and a list of others at the top of the all time QB list were not 1st rounders.

eDIT: Now that I think of it Elway was top pick also so through him in there



Tl;dR if there is a "once in a generation" dominate defensive player you take him.
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marky_b27


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiltman wrote:
Historically speaking a lot of the game's most dominate defensive players have been top five picks.....the same can't be said for QBs...they are all over the place.

In the league today three of the top Qbs weren't selected in the first, Rodgers was picked near the end of the round, and Peyton was the "once in a generation prospect" who stands alone as 1st overall

Looking at the last 10/11 drafts we had 2 maybe 3 QBs be the best top ten pick....and only two at the most are top ten QBs in the league

2002: Julius Peppers beats David Carr
2003: Andre Johnson wins.....but for the sake of this Carson Palmer
2004: You have Fitzgerald, Eli, and Phillip Rivers.....but Sean Taylor was probably the most special player out of that group.
2005: No brainer Demarcus Ware over anyone else, especially Alex Smith
2006: Tough argument can be made for many players....just not any of the QBs
2007: Ha Jamarcus Russell...Willis and Revis just miss out on the top ten....so Adrian Peterson obviously
2008: Matt Ryan by default....pretty terrible draft class looking at it.
2009: BJ Raji would beat out Stafford by a hair.....eh push
2010: At this point Suh over Bradford....but JPP or Earl Thomas have been better who were taken soon after.
2011: Von Miller, AJ Green, Julio Jones, Aldon Smith, Patrick Peterson....take your pick over The leagues #1 entertainer.
2012: Andrew Luck obvi
2013: Too early to tell....but no QBs were taken in the first anyway.

12 of the top 15 defensive players playing now were 1st round picks. Geno Atkins, Richard Sherman, and Navorro Bowman were the only ones who were not.


Reggie White, Bruce Smith, Mean Joe Greene, and Lawrence Taylor were all top 5 picks.....all four of them were some of the games most dominate players (regardless of what side they played on). Dan Marino was the highest drafted QB (#27) who would make a top QB list besides Peyton. Montana, Brady, Unitas, and a list of others at the top of the all time QB list were not 1st rounders.

eDIT: Now that I think of it Elway was top pick also so through him in there



Tl;dR if there is a "once in a generation" dominate defensive player you take him.


On the top defensive players - how many of the current ones were top 5 picks though? It seems to me that the real difference makers (Watt, Matthews III, Atkins for example) weren't top 5, though you could say Miller and Peterson were.

Anyway, I'd still say take the QB over the DE/OLB purely because of the importance of the QB position (if you think he's what you think is a franchise qb)
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AZ_Eaglesfan


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiltman wrote:
Historically speaking a lot of the game's most dominate defensive players have been top five picks.....the same can't be said for QBs...they are all over the place.

In the league today three of the top Qbs weren't selected in the first, Rodgers was picked near the end of the round, and Peyton was the "once in a generation prospect" who stands alone as 1st overall

Looking at the last 10/11 drafts we had 2 maybe 3 QBs be the best top ten pick....and only two at the most are top ten QBs in the league

2002: Julius Peppers beats David Carr
2003: Andre Johnson wins.....but for the sake of this Carson Palmer
2004: You have Fitzgerald, Eli, and Phillip Rivers.....but Sean Taylor was probably the most special player out of that group.
2005: No brainer Demarcus Ware over anyone else, especially Alex Smith
2006: Tough argument can be made for many players....just not any of the QBs
2007: Ha Jamarcus Russell...Willis and Revis just miss out on the top ten....so Adrian Peterson obviously
2008: Matt Ryan by default....pretty terrible draft class looking at it.
2009: BJ Raji would beat out Stafford by a hair.....eh push
2010: At this point Suh over Bradford....but JPP or Earl Thomas have been better who were taken soon after.
2011: Von Miller, AJ Green, Julio Jones, Aldon Smith, Patrick Peterson....take your pick over The leagues #1 entertainer.
2012: Andrew Luck obvi
2013: Too early to tell....but no QBs were taken in the first anyway.

12 of the top 15 defensive players playing now were 1st round picks. Geno Atkins, Richard Sherman, and Navorro Bowman were the only ones who were not.


Reggie White, Bruce Smith, Mean Joe Greene, and Lawrence Taylor were all top 5 picks.....all four of them were some of the games most dominate players (regardless of what side they played on). Dan Marino was the highest drafted QB (#27) who would make a top QB list besides Peyton. Montana, Brady, Unitas, and a list of others at the top of the all time QB list were not 1st rounders.

eDIT: Now that I think of it Elway was top pick also so through him in there



Tl;dR if there is a "once in a generation" dominate defensive player you take him.


EJ was taken in the first Kilt.

While this trend makes sense, QB is the one position that reaches are always acceptable, if it is a need. The only reason you pass on Clowney is if there is a QB that is almost as talented as he is. I think Teddy is at that level. He has everything you want in a pocket passing QB, and he has plenty of mobility. I look at his game and I see Aaron Rodgers honestly. The accuracy downfield, the ability to throw on the run, he is as good of a prospect as I have seen since Luck/RGIII

Plus, it is very possible to find a stud OLB in the second round, not so much QB.
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Kiltman


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

marky_b27 wrote:
[On the top defensive players - how many of the current ones were top 5 picks though? It seems to me that the real difference makers (Watt, Matthews III, Atkins for example) weren't top 5, though you could say Miller and Peterson were.

Anyway, I'd still say take the QB over the DE/OLB purely because of the importance of the QB position (if you think he's what you think is a franchise qb)

Yea alot of them were taken picks 11-15......part of which is because such an importance has been put on the QB that they get jumped, whereas at one time they would not have been.

I spread it really to just first round in general for the argument.

If a QB and a pass rusher are equal after evaluation and you need both I agree with you.....but I wouldn't say that's the case between Teddy and Clowney. But I will admit I haven't been able to see too much of Teddy.


Ah.....forgot about EJ
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marky_b27


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This might be a silly question, but where does Clowney fit in a the 34 - he seems a little too heavy for OLB (similar to what Williams was) and he'd be a waste as a 2 gap DE
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Kiltman


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 4:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

marky_b27 wrote:
This might be a silly question, but where does Clowney fit in a the 34 - he seems a little too heavy for OLB (similar to what Williams was) and he'd be a waste as a 2 gap DE

They've constantly talked about fitting the scheme to the players.....as of now we really lack players who you'd build around.....so in theory you would employ the scheme that made the most out of him and fit the pieces around him.

If we are sticking with a 34 though I agree it's not a great fit..
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marky_b27


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kiltman wrote:
marky_b27 wrote:
This might be a silly question, but where does Clowney fit in a the 34 - he seems a little too heavy for OLB (similar to what Williams was) and he'd be a waste as a 2 gap DE

They've constantly talked about fitting the scheme to the players.....as of now we really lack players who you'd build around.....so in theory you would employ the scheme that made the most out of him and fit the pieces around him.

If we are sticking with a 34 though I agree it's not a great fit..


I think we've seen if the first 4 games that the scheme comes first (which is stupid btw) and the players must adapt or 'die'.
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marky_b27


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 5:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This may be a contradiction to what I said before, but it really depends how you rank the other QBs/OLBs in the draft.

Say you have 3 QBs (one of which is Bridgewater) with similar grades and then you have Clowney who is far away the best OLB, then there is an argument that you go with Clowney and then role the dice to try and get one of your three QBs with a trade up.
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