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OT Eugene Monroe traded to Baltimore Ravens for a 4th+5th
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tugboat wrote:
It's very possible.

But then, what if we get a bit further into the season and we're headed for a #1 pick and real QB and REAL offense next year? If he's swung from maybe staying to definitely not...maybe he swings right back if it looks like the offense could at least be exciting and competitive next year?

It just seems so strange to me...that 4 weeks in, Caldwell's team would be so bad that he HAD TO trade his starting LT who was previously on board with a rebuild. Did he not convey to Monroe that this team was going to be hysterically bad this year? Or did Caldwell honestly not know that the team was going to be hysterically bad this year? Either way... Confused
I'm not sure anyone expected the offense to be this bad, especially if Monroe was confident that MJD would be back and capable of being successful. Did you expect that through 2 games played, that Gabbert would have 0 TDs and 5 INTs? That we would have 1 passing TD? That MJD would only be averaging 2 YPC? That we'd have three games where we failed to score a legitimate TD? That we would have one non-garbage time TD? That type of production can sour anyone to the idea of sticking around, even if there is the possibility of greener pastures next year. It's essentially possible greener pastures vs actual greener pastures for Monroe if he hits Free Agency. It's not hard to see why a guy frustrated about how this season would want to just leave and go somewhere that he knows that things will be better, rather than staying here, hoping they will be..
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Adrenaline_Flux


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a lot of revisionism going on. Preseason, the consensus was the both sides of the ball would be bad but the offense would be up and down and the defense would be atrocious. Thus far, it has been a complete inverse of that.
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Tugboat


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
Who says Monroe was planning to leave the entire time? It's entirely plausible that he wanted to see how the season would go first before figuring out what he wanted to do. At this point, he probably figured that the offense doesn't fit what he would like and he doesn't want to be around for another QB. He's already went through one rookie QB in Gabbert. After speaking out, they sat down and talked with him and realized that he has decided he isn't coming back after this season and they shipped him out for the best deal they could get.

We may feel, even on a one year deal, that he is worth more than a 2014 4th, 5th, and 6th but we aren't in charge of football operations of any teams. Based purely off of reason, I believe Caldwell likely did his due diligence when it came to trading Monroe. It makes no sense for Caldwell not to get as much as he can for Monroe. A 1st or 2nd for a guy can't just be manufactured because we feel it's appropriate - it has to actually be offered and it's obvious that wasn't the case here.

A 4th, 5th, and 6th is nothing to scoff at especially when the alternative was a lot less in a later draft. We're rebuilding and this is the reality of a rebuild. Monroe is gone, but now we have 11 selections in the upcoming draft. We can use all 11 or we can use them to move around and acquire more draft selections or move up for a guy we covet. It gives us a lot of flexibility.

It wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility that we end up moving, let's say, one of our 4ths for a 2015 3rd. At that point do we not only have a day two selection in the 2015 draft, but we still retain a selection in the 4th round in 2014 as well.

I'm not in love with the trade, but I think it's reasonable and I have no reason to believe that it wasn't the best possible outcome for us. What is done is done and I'm excited for additional draft selections, regardless of what happens with Monroe or even at this particular moment in time if those selections pan out.


It's just really hard for me to fathom that Monroe and Caldwell sat down and he honestly thought he'd be interested in being part of a complete and total 'clear the decks' rebuild, only to realize 4 weeks in that yeah...Gabbert is still extremely poor and this team is in for a long rebuild. I mean, Monroe played with Gabbert...did he honestly also believe he was the answer? It's just weird to me, that it seems like Caldwell and Monroe were on such different pages regarding where this franchise was headed...that 4 weeks in, Caldwell was painted into a corner and had to move Monroe in a 'panic trade' for the aforementioned set of 'magic beans'.

I mean, around draft time last year, there were talks of a 2nd round pick being thrown around re:Brandon Albert. I'd say Monroe is a cut above there, and while obviously the deals didn't pan out for Albert...there wasn't a single peep about Monroe being on that same market...where he'd reasonably have garnered a superior return. Maybe a 2nd round pick.

Was Caldwell still thinking Monroe was going to stick around long term then? It's just a weird set of events, which i was skeptical of in the first place.
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Tugboat


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iPwn wrote:
Tugboat wrote:
It's very possible.

But then, what if we get a bit further into the season and we're headed for a #1 pick and real QB and REAL offense next year? If he's swung from maybe staying to definitely not...maybe he swings right back if it looks like the offense could at least be exciting and competitive next year?

It just seems so strange to me...that 4 weeks in, Caldwell's team would be so bad that he HAD TO trade his starting LT who was previously on board with a rebuild. Did he not convey to Monroe that this team was going to be hysterically bad this year? Or did Caldwell honestly not know that the team was going to be hysterically bad this year? Either way... Confused
I'm not sure anyone expected the offense to be this bad, especially if Monroe was confident that MJD would be back and capable of being successful. Did you expect that through 2 games played, that Gabbert would have 0 TDs and 5 INTs? That we would have 1 passing TD? That MJD would only be averaging 2 YPC? That we'd have three games where we failed to score a legitimate TD? That we would have one non-garbage time TD? That type of production can sour anyone to the idea of sticking around, even if there is the possibility of greener pastures next year. It's essentially possible greener pastures vs actual greener pastures for Monroe if he hits Free Agency. It's not hard to see why a guy frustrated about how this season would want to just leave and go somewhere that he knows that things will be better, rather than staying here, hoping they will be..


I'm not going to pretend i believed the offense could be THIS epic bad. But i do distinctly recall suggesting that it looked like a bogus college offense with nothing thrown beyond 5-10 yards down field, and that it wouldn't stand up vs. real defenses come regular season. And i also recall suggesting that MJD was done at this point in his career. And really, i'm not some master prognosticator football expert...but if i can see some of the writing on the wall...

And again, i wasn't sat down with Caldwell this offseason to discuss where the team was headed and what the offense would look like this year. Was Monroe...? I'd sure hope he was given his contract status and role in the offense. But maybe he wasn't...and that's why we are where we are now?
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also entirely possible that the entire time Monroe was on the fence and made up his mind after getting frustrated enough to ask to leave.

There's several scenarios that could have played out, and the last one I want to believe is that our GM was too incompetent to realize what was happening with the only quality upcoming free agent on our team.
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Bad meets Evil


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After the initial shock, Im ok with this. Give me players like Ace and Evans in exchange for someone who won't resign. Sounds like a deal to me.

The real question is, who's next?
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AngryPirate


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
AngryPirate wrote:
So we traded Monroe and a 4th round pick in 2015 for a 4,5,6 round picks this year. So pretty much we got a 5,6 round pick for him, lol.


... we didn't send a 4th...


The ravens get the comp pick if Monroe doesn't stay with them, correct
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AngryPirate wrote:
Adrenaline_Flux wrote:
AngryPirate wrote:
So we traded Monroe and a 4th round pick in 2015 for a 4,5,6 round picks this year. So pretty much we got a 5,6 round pick for him, lol.


... we didn't send a 4th...


The ravens get the comp pick if Monroe doesn't stay with them, correct
They could. We wouldn't. To get a high comp pick, you have to spend less money on Free Agents than you lose (could happen, given the contract Monroe would get), and sign fewer Free Agents than you have signed (MJD and Monroe are our only guys that will get interest, we'll sign probably 4-5 guys). The highest we would get is a 6th, and probably only a 7th, and that's if we don't target a big name guy and get nothing.

TVM (time value of money, a basic principle of economics) says that a 6th rounder in 2015 is worth a 7th rounder in 2014, a 2015 7th rounder is worth nothing in 2014. So we got a 4th, 5th and 6th (or upgrade over a 7th) for him compared to what we would get if he walked.
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jags28


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 7:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they had no view to signing him at the end of the season. Then fair play for trading him. It's a nothing season anyways so may as well get some picks while we can.
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corry


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My first thought was why trade away arguably your best player, but the more I've thought about it the more I like it. If we get a comp pick for losing DC and TK and the rumors of this trade are true. We'll have 12 picks in next years draft. For a team is need of a complete overhaul that's a good thing. The downside is 9 of those picks are in rounds 4-7.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm reading some things online and it appears that some people with knowledge think that Eugene got kinda jaded because of the way JDR and Mularkey threw people under the bus, the mess that Gene caused, and having to feel the unsettledness of Weaver selling the team. Apparently Monroe had been hesitant to "buy-in" to what was going on, and this whole situation with the offense's production through 4 weeks may have soured him on everything with the team.
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iPwn


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If that's all true, it's possible that they knew before the draft that he likely wasn't going to resign - ergo drafting Joeckel. Seeing not much of a market for a Tackle (same reason the Chiefs couldn't move Albert), they decided to sit on him and hope he would buy in. Then the complaining (which probably led to a discussion) + the Ravens offer gets us where we are now.
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corry


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well there goes hoping he signs with us at the end of the season Laughing
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Darbsk


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you guys think that Joeckel is the long term answer at LT??

He didn't look too good the opening few weeks of the season at RT. Of course it's very early in his NFL career but (assuming you take a QB high in the draft) it seems a little dangerous to trust a relatively untried and untested player like Joeckel to look after the new QBs blindside. Will he immediately shift over to LT now?

If it was me, I'd much rather have an experienced top 10 LT in Monroe looking after my QBoTF while he settles in. There is potential to ruin both players confidence in one fell swoop.
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.Buzz


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Darbsk wrote:
Do you guys think that Joeckel is the long term answer at LT??

He didn't look too good the opening few weeks of the season at RT. Of course it's very early in his NFL career but (assuming you take a QB high in the draft) it seems a little dangerous to trust a relatively untried and untested player like Joeckel to look after the new QBs blindside. Will he immediately shift over to LT now?

If it was me, I'd much rather have an experienced top 10 LT in Monroe looking after my QBoTF while he settles in. There is potential to ruin both players confidence in one fell swoop.


Joeckle is going to be just fine. He has looked solid to me with awful inside protection next to him. Having an awful qb who runs out of the pocket too soon and has awful awareness and sometimes just takes sacks makes our O-Line look worse than it really is as well.

If we didn't think Joeckel could be our long term fix at LT, this trade likely wouldn't have been made.
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