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Dreadymatt


Joined: 05 Feb 2010
Posts: 1039
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
I doubt any team offers DMAC a lot of money after the last two years. If that's the case I'd be happy enough to sign him up for relatively cheap.


what would DMC sign for though? What would be the minimum 2-year deal say that he'd sign? If its low, of course, I'd be happy to keep him, but he really isn't worth much anymore
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dreadymatt wrote:
Raidin wrote:
I doubt any team offers DMAC a lot of money after the last two years. If that's the case I'd be happy enough to sign him up for relatively cheap.


what would DMC sign for though? What would be the minimum 2-year deal say that he'd sign? If its low, of course, I'd be happy to keep him, but he really isn't worth much anymore


what happened to the OC preaching about playing to his strengths?

all i see are runs up the gut
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green24 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN > all of you


Raider X wrote:
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Darbsk


Joined: 21 Oct 2008
Posts: 1998
Location: Wales, UK
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
Dreadymatt wrote:
Raidin wrote:
I doubt any team offers DMAC a lot of money after the last two years. If that's the case I'd be happy enough to sign him up for relatively cheap.


what would DMC sign for though? What would be the minimum 2-year deal say that he'd sign? If its low, of course, I'd be happy to keep him, but he really isn't worth much anymore


what happened to the OC preaching about playing to his strengths?

all i see are runs up the gut


I think it's relatively low risk running philosophy given that we're on backups and 3rd string players all across our line. If we start running stretch plays and off tackle we expose those players more and have a lot more potential for negative plays. Just my opinion though!
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 15392
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dreadymatt wrote:
Raidin wrote:
I doubt any team offers DMAC a lot of money after the last two years. If that's the case I'd be happy enough to sign him up for relatively cheap.


what would DMC sign for though? What would be the minimum 2-year deal say that he'd sign? If its low, of course, I'd be happy to keep him, but he really isn't worth much anymore


If he's not worth anything, why would you be happy keeping him? If he's worthless (which he is) wouldn't you want to cut ties w/ him altogether and get someone in here who can actually produce??
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Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 5711
Location: Dublin
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dreadymatt wrote:
Raidin wrote:
I doubt any team offers DMAC a lot of money after the last two years. If that's the case I'd be happy enough to sign him up for relatively cheap.


what would DMC sign for though? What would be the minimum 2-year deal say that he'd sign? If its low, of course, I'd be happy to keep him, but he really isn't worth much anymore



I'd be happy to give him about 2-3m a year. It'll be tricky to find a good replacement for him tbh.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 15392
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
Dreadymatt wrote:
Raidin wrote:
I doubt any team offers DMAC a lot of money after the last two years. If that's the case I'd be happy enough to sign him up for relatively cheap.


what would DMC sign for though? What would be the minimum 2-year deal say that he'd sign? If its low, of course, I'd be happy to keep him, but he really isn't worth much anymore



I'd be happy to give him about 2-3m a year. It'll be tricky to find a good replacement for him tbh.


Why do you feel he's worth that? I also don't agree that it'll be tricky to replace him. RB is probably the easiest position to find. They are everywhere and can be factors immediately as the transition period is very little. If the RB isn't producing, go find another. I remember a year I was discussing this on a different message board, I looked at the top 10 back in the league and 5-6 of them had been drafted in rounds 5 or later.

I just say we let him go. We can find a cheap replacement somewhere and match his production (or lack-there-of) unless you have some ideas I'm just not thinking about. Definitely curious.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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Location: Stockton via East Palo Alto
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Raidin wrote:
Dreadymatt wrote:
Raidin wrote:
I doubt any team offers DMAC a lot of money after the last two years. If that's the case I'd be happy enough to sign him up for relatively cheap.


what would DMC sign for though? What would be the minimum 2-year deal say that he'd sign? If its low, of course, I'd be happy to keep him, but he really isn't worth much anymore



I'd be happy to give him about 2-3m a year. It'll be tricky to find a good replacement for him tbh.


Why do you feel he's worth that? I also don't agree that it'll be tricky to replace him. RB is probably the easiest position to find. They are everywhere and can be factors immediately as the transition period is very little. If the RB isn't producing, go find another. I remember a year I was discussing this on a different message board, I looked at the top 10 back in the league and 5-6 of them had been drafted in rounds 5 or later.

I just say we let him go. We can find a cheap replacement somewhere and match his production (or lack-there-of) unless you have some ideas I'm just not thinking about. Definitely curious.
this. Dmac will have played out his contract pathetically and should get cut
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NCOUGHMAN > all of you


Raider X wrote:
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Silver&Black88


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Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
Dreadymatt wrote:
Raidin wrote:
I doubt any team offers DMAC a lot of money after the last two years. If that's the case I'd be happy enough to sign him up for relatively cheap.


what would DMC sign for though? What would be the minimum 2-year deal say that he'd sign? If its low, of course, I'd be happy to keep him, but he really isn't worth much anymore


what happened to the OC preaching about playing to his strengths?

all i see are runs up the gut


Well, our guards are horrid and suck at pulling and we're on our 3rd string OT's and OC. You tell me.

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
Dmac will have played out his contract pathetically and should get cut


Can't help injuries. That part does suck big time, but he can't help it. He's just not a zone runner and we tried to force him to do it for at least half of his time here. Put Arian Foster in a PBS and he's a bum. But since he isn't, he's lauded as a star. DMC was a baller under Hue.


If you said "The guy is just never healthy enough to be reliable and we can't justify paying him well for that" then I'd be alright with it. But "he played out his contract pathetically" is bull. That distinction is reserved for guys like Javon Walker, Matt Giordano or your boy JR.
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Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 5711
Location: Dublin
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Raidin wrote:
Dreadymatt wrote:
Raidin wrote:
I doubt any team offers DMAC a lot of money after the last two years. If that's the case I'd be happy enough to sign him up for relatively cheap.


what would DMC sign for though? What would be the minimum 2-year deal say that he'd sign? If its low, of course, I'd be happy to keep him, but he really isn't worth much anymore



I'd be happy to give him about 2-3m a year. It'll be tricky to find a good replacement for him tbh.


Why do you feel he's worth that? I also don't agree that it'll be tricky to replace him. RB is probably the easiest position to find. They are everywhere and can be factors immediately as the transition period is very little. If the RB isn't producing, go find another. I remember a year I was discussing this on a different message board, I looked at the top 10 back in the league and 5-6 of them had been drafted in rounds 5 or later.

I just say we let him go. We can find a cheap replacement somewhere and match his production (or lack-there-of) unless you have some ideas I'm just not thinking about. Definitely curious.




I don't think running backs are as easy to find as people make it out to be imo. Who would you get into replace him? The running back free agent list this year isn't great, lots of old guys who are injury prone and don't have the potential of McFadden. Drafting one to replace him immediately isn't a option either. Look through the list of those players who are top 10 backs and tell me how many of them produced in their first year, I'd say the number is very very small. Not to mention I could probably list about 20 running backs draft in rounds 3+ every year who've never made it in the nfl. The value of running back isn't as important, but that doesn't mean the ability to find a good one has become any easier.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 25678
Location: ATL
PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Raidin wrote:
Dreadymatt wrote:
Raidin wrote:
I doubt any team offers DMAC a lot of money after the last two years. If that's the case I'd be happy enough to sign him up for relatively cheap.


what would DMC sign for though? What would be the minimum 2-year deal say that he'd sign? If its low, of course, I'd be happy to keep him, but he really isn't worth much anymore



I'd be happy to give him about 2-3m a year. It'll be tricky to find a good replacement for him tbh.


Why do you feel he's worth that? I also don't agree that it'll be tricky to replace him. RB is probably the easiest position to find. They are everywhere and can be factors immediately as the transition period is very little. If the RB isn't producing, go find another. I remember a year I was discussing this on a different message board, I looked at the top 10 back in the league and 5-6 of them had been drafted in rounds 5 or later.

I just say we let him go. We can find a cheap replacement somewhere and match his production (or lack-there-of) unless you have some ideas I'm just not thinking about. Definitely curious.




I don't think running backs are as easy to find as people make it out to be imo. Who would you get into replace him? The running back free agent list this year isn't great, lots of old guys who are injury prone and don't have the potential of McFadden. Drafting one to replace him immediately isn't a option either. Look through the list of those players who are top 10 backs and tell me how many of them produced in their first year, I'd say the number is very very small. Not to mention I could probably list about 20 running backs draft in rounds 3+ every year who've never made it in the nfl. The value of running back isn't as important, but that doesn't mean the ability to find a good one has become any easier.
'

Are we not past the 'potential' argument w/ McFadden. We know what he is capable of by now. He's a north/south runner who needs a hole. He's never going to create space for himself.

And that's the issue. Oakland's awful Oline isn't creating holes for him to be successful. In 2011, the Oline was solid in run blocking and he was able to get downhill into the second level and punish. That just hasn't been the case this year.

Need a new LG/RG to run block and get those lanes open inside. And obviously having JV back will help on the stretch plays that the current tackles can't block.
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NCOUGHMAN


Joined: 25 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN wrote:
Dreadymatt wrote:
Raidin wrote:
I doubt any team offers DMAC a lot of money after the last two years. If that's the case I'd be happy enough to sign him up for relatively cheap.


what would DMC sign for though? What would be the minimum 2-year deal say that he'd sign? If its low, of course, I'd be happy to keep him, but he really isn't worth much anymore


what happened to the OC preaching about playing to his strengths?

all i see are runs up the gut


Well, our guards are horrid and suck at pulling and we're on our 3rd string OT's and OC. You tell me.

NCOUGHMAN wrote:
Dmac will have played out his contract pathetically and should get cut


Can't help injuries. That part does suck big time, but he can't help it. He's just not a zone runner and we tried to force him to do it for at least half of his time here. Put Arian Foster in a PBS and he's a bum. But since he isn't, he's lauded as a star. DMC was a baller under Hue.


If you said "The guy is just never healthy enough to be reliable and we can't justify paying him well for that" then I'd be alright with it. But "he played out his contract pathetically" is bull. That distinction is reserved for guys like Javon Walker, Matt Giordano or your boy JR.
at least they were available to play minus walker. But meh tomato tomatoe
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green24 wrote:
NCOUGHMAN > all of you


Raider X wrote:
This is football, not pussology 101
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Raidin


Joined: 05 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
Raidin wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Raidin wrote:
Dreadymatt wrote:
Raidin wrote:
I doubt any team offers DMAC a lot of money after the last two years. If that's the case I'd be happy enough to sign him up for relatively cheap.


what would DMC sign for though? What would be the minimum 2-year deal say that he'd sign? If its low, of course, I'd be happy to keep him, but he really isn't worth much anymore



I'd be happy to give him about 2-3m a year. It'll be tricky to find a good replacement for him tbh.


Why do you feel he's worth that? I also don't agree that it'll be tricky to replace him. RB is probably the easiest position to find. They are everywhere and can be factors immediately as the transition period is very little. If the RB isn't producing, go find another. I remember a year I was discussing this on a different message board, I looked at the top 10 back in the league and 5-6 of them had been drafted in rounds 5 or later.

I just say we let him go. We can find a cheap replacement somewhere and match his production (or lack-there-of) unless you have some ideas I'm just not thinking about. Definitely curious.




I don't think running backs are as easy to find as people make it out to be imo. Who would you get into replace him? The running back free agent list this year isn't great, lots of old guys who are injury prone and don't have the potential of McFadden. Drafting one to replace him immediately isn't a option either. Look through the list of those players who are top 10 backs and tell me how many of them produced in their first year, I'd say the number is very very small. Not to mention I could probably list about 20 running backs draft in rounds 3+ every year who've never made it in the nfl. The value of running back isn't as important, but that doesn't mean the ability to find a good one has become any easier.
'

Are we not past the 'potential' argument w/ McFadden. We know what he is capable of by now. He's a north/south runner who needs a hole. He's never going to create space for himself.

And that's the issue. Oakland's awful Oline isn't creating holes for him to be successful. In 2011, the Oline was solid in run blocking and he was able to get downhill into the second level and punish. That just hasn't been the case this year.

Need a new LG/RG to run block and get those lanes open inside. And obviously having JV back will help on the stretch plays that the current tackles can't block.




that's what I mean by potenial. We know if you create holes McFadden will be an excellent runner. We have to create those holes. There is no one else is FA who, even if we creates the holes, will be able to produce to the level that McFadden can.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:

I don't think running backs are as easy to find as people make it out to be imo. Who would you get into replace him? The running back free agent list this year isn't great, lots of old guys who are injury prone and don't have the potential of McFadden. Drafting one to replace him immediately isn't a option either. Look through the list of those players who are top 10 backs and tell me how many of them produced in their first year, I'd say the number is very very small. Not to mention I could probably list about 20 running backs draft in rounds 3+ every year who've never made it in the nfl. The value of running back isn't as important, but that doesn't mean the ability to find a good one has become any easier.


I think we could get numerous people to replicate his 3.9 YPC this season. I doubt that would be difficult and I bet it could be done cheaper than McFadden will demand.

As for your top 10 thing.... well.... So far we have the following as our top ten:

McCoy - Was just fine his rookie season.
Foster - Didn't play but he did play well in limited fashion
Lynch - Was just fine
AD - Nothing needed
Gore - Just fine
Charles - Didn't play but did well when he got touches
Forte - Just fine
Murray - Limited role but was just fine
Martin - His was last year and we all remember that.
Williams - Yeah, he sucks. Shocked to see him at 10 anyway.

We can always name players who didn't make it, that's easy but it's the fact that many of the good ones have been found in later rounds also. This list above doesn't really go w/ that notion but if you look at past years and compare, I would consider this to be the exception unless my few times researching it were just lucky haha.

McFadden's production will be easy to duplicate and much cheaper. I see no need for him coming back. I know people love his potential and still think he's going to be good but how many years do we give him??
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Baggabonez


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raidin wrote:
that's what I mean by potenial. We know if you create holes McFadden will be an excellent runner. We have to create those holes. There is no one else is FA who, even if we creates the holes, will be able to produce to the level that McFadden can.


Jtagg & BP killed it. My sentiments exactly .

If I could humbly add to to their statements, as fans we are enamored with the"potential" of our own FAs. Branch, Seymour, Kelly, Shaggy & Des are all guys that at the time we said "we HAVE to bring them back". Yet they we're replaced more cheaply with equal or better production. DMC isn't potential. He is a known. A known that can make way for "potential". DMC is going to get more than the veteran minimum. You're just hoping he doesn't so you don't have to buy a new jersey.
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Basically, how I'd approach McFadden after this year: Offer him a 2 or 3 year deal at a rate we're happy with. If he comes back, great. If not, see ya. I love what he brings to the table, the issue is that he's not at the table enough. His contract should reflect that.

At the same time, I'd look for another back to pair with him. I don't think Jennings is good enough. I don't trust Murray yet. Stewart is nothing more than a backup/STer.
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