Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

GDT- Week Four: BAL Ravens @ BUF Bills
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 22, 23, 24  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Baltimore Ravens
View previous topic :: View next topic  

If we lose? Which Edward Norton are you?
Gif 1: Grr... but, I'd rather take it on on my computer..
44%
 44%  [ 4 ]
Gif 2: Grr... My computer costs too much, a nose is easily fixed.
33%
 33%  [ 3 ]
Neither: I'll be upset, but what would my girlfriend think?
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Other: I have a little brother for these things, so I'm covered. ;)
22%
 22%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 9

Author Message
Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 22921
Location: Parkville, MD
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BaltimoreTerp wrote:
I would estimate that around 70% of Torrey's catches this year have been on crossing routes.


Personally, I think this has more to do with Torrey being blanketed if he goes deep, but on crossing patterns he's able to break free and get open moreso than Caldwell calling too many for him.

Quote:
It was only when Caldwell mixed in a couple of deep passes in both cases to force them to back off and respect Joe's arm strength that we were getting plays in the passing game, both short and long. At least 2 of the interceptions yesterday, the first Alonso one and one of the Aaron Williams picks, were the result of the Bills defenders sitting in the short zones and waiting for Joe to throw short and into traffic again.


I can agree about the INTs being when they are sitting in short zones just waiting for it -- but again, I think that has a bit more to do with how they knew unless we were going max protect, Joe HAD to throw it short because he wouldn't have time to get it deep.

But overall, I think we're seeing another case where we have receivers struggling to get separation. Hopefully with Thompson back that will help due to his speed and may open things up opposite Torrey, but Brown has struggled a bit as he'd not physical enough a the LOS (and always seems to get stacked by the CB on deep balls), Doss has struggled, and so has Clark/Stokley.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Flaccomania


Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 22921
Location: Parkville, MD
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.10.E wrote:
This may be a little confusing but I'm going to try and say something.

You know how against us, half the time on crossing routes the receivers are wide open. Like, how come this can't happen to us. All of our receivers rarely seem to be open that much at all. I don't understand it.


Yep -- this contributed to my statement about quick slants. I don't know what it is -- I see it all the time with other teams -- a quick slant from shotgun formation and they get 8 yards. Or, 1st and goal from the 4, quick slant and bam, TD. We don't ever seem to be able to do that with the exception of last year against NYG with Torrey.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
M.10.E


Joined: 24 Dec 2007
Posts: 1068
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Flaccomania wrote:
M.10.E wrote:
This may be a little confusing but I'm going to try and say something.

You know how against us, half the time on crossing routes the receivers are wide open. Like, how come this can't happen to us. All of our receivers rarely seem to be open that much at all. I don't understand it.


Yep -- this contributed to my statement about quick slants. I don't know what it is -- I see it all the time with other teams -- a quick slant from shotgun formation and they get 8 yards. Or, 1st and goal from the 4, quick slant and bam, TD. We don't ever seem to be able to do that with the exception of last year against NYG with Torrey.


It just confuses me. Tom Brady is in a similar situation as us (better OL) and his receivers get open (just drop the ball).

Side note: Suggs was credited with 17 (!?!?!) tackles haha
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wackywabbit


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 7081
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RavensfanRD wrote:
wackywabbit wrote:


Um... doubtful. Both Marlon Brown and my boy Deonte Thompson looked good out there. We ended up with with Brown/Stokley/Thompson and of course Jacoby unable to finish the game. Not much we can do with that.


Jacoby played? Wow, didn't know that. Didn't even look at the post-game stuff on the websites because I'm still in shock that we lost to the Bills. Like there is nothing a person can say to convince me that this outcome could've happened. Screw that any given Sunday nonsense, this just shouldn't have happened and is inexcusable. Makes me question do I really wanna spend $250 to watch us play Greenbay?

... of course I do. In Flacco I trust!


No Jacoby didn't play. I was just emphasizing that 4 of the top 5 WRs on the depth chart didn't finish the game. We were basically forced at the end to throw to Clark and Doss, with Torrey being blanketed. That's not a recipe for success. I'm actually very disturbed with the amount of targets Clark is getting. We do not have the talent to be a TE centric offense and Caldwell HAS to adjust. Clark should not be an early read, nor should he be thrown at unless he is wide open. I really hope Brown and Thompson get healthy fast because they are the best hope we have for an improved passing game this year.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SnA ExclusiVe


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 26041
Location: Spokane, WA
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.10.E wrote:
This may be a little confusing but I'm going to try and say something.

You know how against us, half the time on crossing routes the receivers are wide open. Like, how come this can't happen to us. All of our receivers rarely seem to be open that much at all. I don't understand it.


I completely agree! I see pretty much every team run crossing routes vs man coverage and those guys are getting 2 yards of separation and we are throwing INT's to 4th string CB's against them! HOW?!

It just puzzles me.
_________________


Steve Smith Sr. on Panthers Secondary wrote:
"I'm 35 years old and I ran around those boys like they was schoolyard kids."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SnA ExclusiVe


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 26041
Location: Spokane, WA
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.10.E wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
M.10.E wrote:
This may be a little confusing but I'm going to try and say something.

You know how against us, half the time on crossing routes the receivers are wide open. Like, how come this can't happen to us. All of our receivers rarely seem to be open that much at all. I don't understand it.


Yep -- this contributed to my statement about quick slants. I don't know what it is -- I see it all the time with other teams -- a quick slant from shotgun formation and they get 8 yards. Or, 1st and goal from the 4, quick slant and bam, TD. We don't ever seem to be able to do that with the exception of last year against NYG with Torrey.


It just confuses me. Tom Brady is in a similar situation as us (better OL) and his receivers get open (just drop the ball).

Side note: Suggs was credited with 17 (!?!?!) tackles haha


Yeah Suggs was literally everywhere yesterday. He's been an absolute force for us.
_________________


Steve Smith Sr. on Panthers Secondary wrote:
"I'm 35 years old and I ran around those boys like they was schoolyard kids."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mancunian Raven


Joined: 09 Oct 2012
Posts: 2281
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And so much for not being a defensively led team. How often did we hear talk about how the offense was going to take over and carry the load, how they were going to repay the defense for all those years of hard, grinding, heavy work to keep this team in games, week after week?

And now, it's worse than it's been in years. And honestly, the more I look at it, the more it all stems from the play of the O-line. They can't get the run game working, so Joe has to throw it fifty times a game, so defenses know what to expect and smother receivers, keeping their eyes open for errant passes.

Yes, the skill players on offense, including Flacco, could be doing better, but they're hamstrung by the O-line as well.

The fact that the Offense gave up five turnovers yesterday (some in tremendous field positions for the Bills), and yet the Defense only gave up two TDs, is an amazing validation of the players Ozzie brought in, and the work done by the coaches (even Pees) and the players to form a coherent unit.

I just wish those clownshoes on the O-line (excluding Yanda) would repay them for all their hard work.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BaltimoreTerp


Most Valuable Poster (4th Ballot)

Joined: 13 Feb 2005
Posts: 29736
Location: Washington, DC
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just saw these postgame comments from Harbaugh regarding Dickson... certainly eye opening compared to the usual coachspeak:

Quote:
Aaron Wilson ‏@RavensInsider 14m

John Harbaugh on Ed Dickson: 'You got that kind of talent and those kind of gifts, go play ball.'

John Harbaugh on Ed Dickson catching 54 passes two seasons ago: 'He's not the same player now that he was then.'

John Harbaugh on Ed Dickson: 'Ed needs to catch the ball. If he's thinking about anything besides that, he's doing himself a disservice.'

Aaron Wilson ‏@RavensInsider 10m

John Harbaugh on Ed Dickson, who has six dropped passes this season: 'If he has a confidence problem, that's on him.'


He also called out Gradkowski, though not quite in the same sort of biting way the Dickson comments were. I've never really hard Harbaugh call out players before like this, it's a bit risky but I think it's the right move. They need to be angry and get rid of any remaining complacency after a game like that. You don't pat anyone (on offense) on the back after a game as bad as that one. Though in Dickson's case I don't think it's a matter of trying to build him back up in any way - I doubt we'll see much of him moving forward. Gave him all sort of chances and he has bombed spectacularly.

I feel embarrassed for thinking back in August that he could step in and mitigate the damage of losing Pitta. I knew he'd be a downgrade but I didn't expect him to have completely forgotten how to play football. Joe is already afraid to throw it in his direction and he's lost Harbs now, too. He's done here and it wouldn't surprise me if they make the switch to Furstenburg soon (probably give him some practice time with Joe over the next week or 2 before making the move full-time). I dunno, we'll see. There's no role for Dickson here but it's also hard to know how much trust they have in Furstenburg. But Dickson just flat out sucks. Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
diamondbull424


Moderator
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Posts: 12982
Location: Baltimore, MD
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.10.E wrote:
Flaccomania wrote:
M.10.E wrote:
This may be a little confusing but I'm going to try and say something.

You know how against us, half the time on crossing routes the receivers are wide open. Like, how come this can't happen to us. All of our receivers rarely seem to be open that much at all. I don't understand it.


Yep -- this contributed to my statement about quick slants. I don't know what it is -- I see it all the time with other teams -- a quick slant from shotgun formation and they get 8 yards. Or, 1st and goal from the 4, quick slant and bam, TD. We don't ever seem to be able to do that with the exception of last year against NYG with Torrey.


It just confuses me. Tom Brady is in a similar situation as us (better OL) and his receivers get open (just drop the ball).

Side note: Suggs was credited with 17 (!?!?!) tackles haha

It's like c0 mentioned. It's because Dean Pees always gives other teams 10-15 yard cushions with our corners when he blitzes. He's a fool. It's so easy to figure out. And thus QBs know right away that we're blitzing and audible to a slant or a hitch pattern to destroy our coverage by just playing backyard football. That's why that route is always working against us.

In terms of our receivers inability to get separation like other teams, well I saw a few times where we had open guys on crossing patterns, the Flacco interception for example... Doss was pretty open, but Flacco went with Brown and tossed an interception into their zone. Had he tossed it to Doss, that's probably a 15-20 yard play. So it's probably partly decision making and part of it is probably our WRs coach... Jim Hostler, he has our receivers rounding out their routes as opposed to making sharp cuts, that lack of COD probably has something to do with our lacking ability to get separation as well. Rounding routes is such an outdated design, similar to the Air Coryell offense. It's probably much simpler to defend. Though I'm just speculating on that last part.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SnA ExclusiVe


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 26041
Location: Spokane, WA
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fact is that if you're not going to have an elite offensive line to give your QB time to throw the ball, you need elite skill position guys.

I'm sorry but the Ravens do not have that, even with Pitta healthy I do not believe we would've seen much difference because teams would just double him and put a safety over Torrey and play 1v1 everywhere else and shut us down.

You've got to have 3 or more guys who can beat 1v1's and we only have one of those right now.
_________________


Steve Smith Sr. on Panthers Secondary wrote:
"I'm 35 years old and I ran around those boys like they was schoolyard kids."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
diamondbull424


Moderator
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Posts: 12982
Location: Baltimore, MD
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
The fact is that if you're not going to have an elite offensive line to give your QB time to throw the ball, you need elite skill position guys.

I'm sorry but the Ravens do not have that, even with Pitta healthy I do not believe we would've seen much difference because teams would just double him and put a safety over Torrey and play 1v1 everywhere else and shut us down.

You've got to have 3 or more guys who can beat 1v1's and we only have one of those right now.

There would have been a difference though. Because now you drag two guys onto Pitta and a guy like Deonte Thompson can definitely beat his man over the top with his speed. Jacoby Jones also showed throughout the playoffs that if you single cover him with no deep safety, he can make some big plays deep. Neither guy is going to be consistent, but it would definitely give them more opportunities deep. And if they draw their focus away, Pitta would definitely shred his single coverage AND make the catch.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SnA ExclusiVe


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 26041
Location: Spokane, WA
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
The fact is that if you're not going to have an elite offensive line to give your QB time to throw the ball, you need elite skill position guys.

I'm sorry but the Ravens do not have that, even with Pitta healthy I do not believe we would've seen much difference because teams would just double him and put a safety over Torrey and play 1v1 everywhere else and shut us down.

You've got to have 3 or more guys who can beat 1v1's and we only have one of those right now.

There would have been a difference though. Because now you drag two guys onto Pitta and a guy like Deonte Thompson can definitely beat his man over the top with his speed. Jacoby Jones also showed throughout the playoffs that if you single cover him with no deep safety, he can make some big plays deep. Neither guy is going to be consistent, but it would definitely give them more opportunities deep. And if they draw their focus away, Pitta would definitely shred his single coverage AND make the catch.


Still I don't think it would be that much of a difference. Pitta surprised people last year, this year he wouldn't have done that, especially with no Boldin now.

You will rarely find a team that has 1 WR and 1 TE as their best duo. Many teams have 2 WR's and a TE or 3 WR's who can get it done.

I just don't believe that having 2 above-average guys is going to cut it if you want to have an offense that scores lots of points, but this FO isn't willing to spend money/draft picks to get those talented guys we need.
_________________


Steve Smith Sr. on Panthers Secondary wrote:
"I'm 35 years old and I ran around those boys like they was schoolyard kids."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wackywabbit


Joined: 20 Dec 2009
Posts: 7081
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

diamondbull424 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
The fact is that if you're not going to have an elite offensive line to give your QB time to throw the ball, you need elite skill position guys.

I'm sorry but the Ravens do not have that, even with Pitta healthy I do not believe we would've seen much difference because teams would just double him and put a safety over Torrey and play 1v1 everywhere else and shut us down.

You've got to have 3 or more guys who can beat 1v1's and we only have one of those right now.

There would have been a difference though. Because now you drag two guys onto Pitta and a guy like Deonte Thompson can definitely beat his man over the top with his speed. Jacoby Jones also showed throughout the playoffs that if you single cover him with no deep safety, he can make some big plays deep. Neither guy is going to be consistent, but it would definitely give them more opportunities deep. And if they draw their focus away, Pitta would definitely shred his single coverage AND make the catch.


Time for some 'day-after' optimism. Thompson WILL become that consistent go-to guy opposite Smith, this year. 4 catches on 5 targets, including a big downfield catch in his first regular season action with Flacco. He's done nothing but impress me every time he gets on the field. His bandwagon cleared after ONE preseason drop when everyone else's drops started to freak us out. Our coaching staff/front office isn't stupid, as the shiny hardware will attest to. They are going to see what isn't working (almost everything other than Torrey Smith) and realize we need to try something new. And no, Jacoby Jones isn't the answer.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SnA ExclusiVe


Joined: 01 Jun 2011
Posts: 26041
Location: Spokane, WA
PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2013 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wackywabbit wrote:
diamondbull424 wrote:
SnA ExclusiVe wrote:
The fact is that if you're not going to have an elite offensive line to give your QB time to throw the ball, you need elite skill position guys.

I'm sorry but the Ravens do not have that, even with Pitta healthy I do not believe we would've seen much difference because teams would just double him and put a safety over Torrey and play 1v1 everywhere else and shut us down.

You've got to have 3 or more guys who can beat 1v1's and we only have one of those right now.

There would have been a difference though. Because now you drag two guys onto Pitta and a guy like Deonte Thompson can definitely beat his man over the top with his speed. Jacoby Jones also showed throughout the playoffs that if you single cover him with no deep safety, he can make some big plays deep. Neither guy is going to be consistent, but it would definitely give them more opportunities deep. And if they draw their focus away, Pitta would definitely shred his single coverage AND make the catch.


Time for some 'day-after' optimism. Thompson WILL become that consistent go-to guy opposite Smith, this year. 4 catches on 5 targets, including a big downfield catch in his first regular season action with Flacco. He's done nothing but impress me every time he gets on the field. His bandwagon cleared after ONE preseason drop when everyone else's drops started to freak us out. Our coaching staff/front office isn't stupid, as the shiny hardware will attest to. We might have another sputtering offensive performance against the Dolphins, but during the bye they are going to see what isn't working (almost everything other than Torrey Smith) and realize we need to try something new. And no, Jacoby Jones isn't the answer.


We all know what the answer is: An offensive line that can block and being more creative in using what weapons we have to deal with.

It sickens me watching the Saints and the way they use Darren Sproles because Rice is a poor mans Darren Sproles and we don't even try to use him like that Sad
_________________


Steve Smith Sr. on Panthers Secondary wrote:
"I'm 35 years old and I ran around those boys like they was schoolyard kids."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GaTechRavens


Joined: 25 Nov 2006
Posts: 17673
Location: Madison, WI
PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2013 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BaltimoreTerp wrote:
Just saw these postgame comments from Harbaugh regarding Dickson... certainly eye opening compared to the usual coachspeak:

Quote:
Aaron Wilson ‏@RavensInsider 14m

John Harbaugh on Ed Dickson: 'You got that kind of talent and those kind of gifts, go play ball.'

John Harbaugh on Ed Dickson catching 54 passes two seasons ago: 'He's not the same player now that he was then.'

John Harbaugh on Ed Dickson: 'Ed needs to catch the ball. If he's thinking about anything besides that, he's doing himself a disservice.'

Aaron Wilson ‏@RavensInsider 10m

John Harbaugh on Ed Dickson, who has six dropped passes this season: 'If he has a confidence problem, that's on him.'


He also called out Gradkowski, though not quite in the same sort of biting way the Dickson comments were. I've never really hard Harbaugh call out players before like this, it's a bit risky but I think it's the right move. They need to be angry and get rid of any remaining complacency after a game like that. You don't pat anyone (on offense) on the back after a game as bad as that one. Though in Dickson's case I don't think it's a matter of trying to build him back up in any way - I doubt we'll see much of him moving forward. Gave him all sort of chances and he has bombed spectacularly.

I feel embarrassed for thinking back in August that he could step in and mitigate the damage of losing Pitta. I knew he'd be a downgrade but I didn't expect him to have completely forgotten how to play football. Joe is already afraid to throw it in his direction and he's lost Harbs now, too. He's done here and it wouldn't surprise me if they make the switch to Furstenburg soon (probably give him some practice time with Joe over the next week or 2 before making the move full-time). I dunno, we'll see. There's no role for Dickson here but it's also hard to know how much trust they have in Furstenburg. But Dickson just flat out sucks. Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane.

Ed Dickson caught 54 passes two years ago? Wow. I remember, like, one of those.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Baltimore Ravens All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 22, 23, 24  Next
Page 23 of 24

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group