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Darius Slay's struggles
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LionsFTW


Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Posts: 18249
Location: Rock City, Arkansas
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
LionsFTW wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
LionsFTW wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
Funny people flipped when I said he played poorly and now get benched

Bright future still possible but highly overrated early by fans


Nobody expected him to come in and set the world on fire right away. QBs are completing 57% of passes to Slay's coverage with 94.3 QBR and has given up 0 TD's. Let's compare...

Dee Milliner:
33% completion with a 92.6 QBT to his coverage. Has given up 2 TD's.

DJ Hayden:
76% completion with a 103 QBR. Has given up 0 TD's.

Desmond Trufant:
68% completion with a 87 QBR. Has given up 0 TD's.

Xavier Rhodes:
50% completion with a 60 QBR. Has given up 0 TD's.

Jonathon Banks:
67% completion with a 112 QBR. Has given up 1 TD.

David Amerson:
50%; 96 QBR; 0 TD



So Rhodes is the only rookie CB that has been substantially better than Slay. Everyone else has been facing the same rookie troubles.


So he's best turd of rookie bunch. Best turd in toilet bowl still a turd. Doesn't mean he isn't struggling. I like his up side but struggling is struggling.


Rarely to rookie CBs make impacts. I wouldnt call him a struggling CB. I'd call him a rookie CB playing like a rookie CB.



No matter how u paint it starting CB who was struggling.



Based on expectations, no he isnt. Compared to Revis and Sherman and Hall, yeah.
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lions on top


Joined: 12 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Louis Friend wrote:
He's struggled, but so has Mathis, and Houston. Should we bench them too? We haven't gotten burned by Slays poor play. There is no reason to NOT play him. If you don't want to start him... fine. If you want Mathis is late in games... fine. But play the damn kid and let him learn. That's how you develop players. Maybe this is why so many of our draft picks don't pan out. We'd rather run average vets into the ground, then attempt to stick with an average young guy.

My point exactly!! Why do we keep taking valuable playing times away from young guys for the likes of vets who really aren't performing much better?
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TL-TwoWinsAway


Joined: 19 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LionsFTW wrote:
Rarely to rookie CBs make impacts. I wouldnt call him a struggling CB. I'd call him a rookie CB playing like a rookie CB.

Strongly agree. Houston allowed a few receptions last week, but still had a good game. Slay is young. It happens.
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detfan782004


Joined: 01 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lions on top wrote:
Louis Friend wrote:
He's struggled, but so has Mathis, and Houston. Should we bench them too? We haven't gotten burned by Slays poor play. There is no reason to NOT play him. If you don't want to start him... fine. If you want Mathis is late in games... fine. But play the damn kid and let him learn. That's how you develop players. Maybe this is why so many of our draft picks don't pan out. We'd rather run average vets into the ground, then attempt to stick with an average young guy.

My point exactly!! Why do we keep taking valuable playing times away from young guys for the likes of vets who really aren't performing much better?


Except they HAVE gotten burned by his play. Two huge ones in Minny game won't that's earned him pine that game
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LionsFTW


Joined: 25 Jan 2010
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Location: Rock City, Arkansas
PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

lions on top wrote:
Louis Friend wrote:
He's struggled, but so has Mathis, and Houston. Should we bench them too? We haven't gotten burned by Slays poor play. There is no reason to NOT play him. If you don't want to start him... fine. If you want Mathis is late in games... fine. But play the damn kid and let him learn. That's how you develop players. Maybe this is why so many of our draft picks don't pan out. We'd rather run average vets into the ground, then attempt to stick with an average young guy.

My point exactly!! Why do we keep taking valuable playing times away from young guys for the likes of vets who really aren't performing much better?


QBs are throwing 52 percent with a 67 qbr against Mathis. Add in 0 TDs allowed and 3 PDs and id say that Mathis isn't struggling.
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Nnivolcm


Joined: 07 Aug 2008
Posts: 9092
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LionsFTW wrote:
lions on top wrote:
Louis Friend wrote:
He's struggled, but so has Mathis, and Houston. Should we bench them too? We haven't gotten burned by Slays poor play. There is no reason to NOT play him. If you don't want to start him... fine. If you want Mathis is late in games... fine. But play the damn kid and let him learn. That's how you develop players. Maybe this is why so many of our draft picks don't pan out. We'd rather run average vets into the ground, then attempt to stick with an average young guy.

My point exactly!! Why do we keep taking valuable playing times away from young guys for the likes of vets who really aren't performing much better?


QBs are throwing 52 percent with a 67 qbr against Mathis. Add in 0 TDs allowed and 3 PDs and id say that Mathis isn't struggling.


Those stats are greatly helped by the Calvin Johnson rule that stopped a long TD from counting were Mathis was burnt badly last week. Both players have made plays, both have had bad plays. Looks like the benching isn't affecting Slay's confidence so maybe a little time on the bench will end up being a good thing.
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TL-TwoWinsAway


Joined: 19 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nnivolcm wrote:
LionsFTW wrote:
lions on top wrote:
Louis Friend wrote:
He's struggled, but so has Mathis, and Houston. Should we bench them too? We haven't gotten burned by Slays poor play. There is no reason to NOT play him. If you don't want to start him... fine. If you want Mathis is late in games... fine. But play the damn kid and let him learn. That's how you develop players. Maybe this is why so many of our draft picks don't pan out. We'd rather run average vets into the ground, then attempt to stick with an average young guy.

My point exactly!! Why do we keep taking valuable playing times away from young guys for the likes of vets who really aren't performing much better?


QBs are throwing 52 percent with a 67 qbr against Mathis. Add in 0 TDs allowed and 3 PDs and id say that Mathis isn't struggling.


Those stats are greatly helped by the Calvin Johnson rule that stopped a long TD from counting were Mathis was burnt badly last week. Both players have made plays, both have had bad plays. Looks like the benching isn't affecting Slay's confidence so maybe a little time on the bench will end up being a good thing.

Burnt badly? He stayed with a speed WR and had his hand in the play.
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Nnivolcm


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Nnivolcm wrote:
LionsFTW wrote:
lions on top wrote:
Louis Friend wrote:
He's struggled, but so has Mathis, and Houston. Should we bench them too? We haven't gotten burned by Slays poor play. There is no reason to NOT play him. If you don't want to start him... fine. If you want Mathis is late in games... fine. But play the damn kid and let him learn. That's how you develop players. Maybe this is why so many of our draft picks don't pan out. We'd rather run average vets into the ground, then attempt to stick with an average young guy.

My point exactly!! Why do we keep taking valuable playing times away from young guys for the likes of vets who really aren't performing much better?


QBs are throwing 52 percent with a 67 qbr against Mathis. Add in 0 TDs allowed and 3 PDs and id say that Mathis isn't struggling.


Those stats are greatly helped by the Calvin Johnson rule that stopped a long TD from counting were Mathis was burnt badly last week. Both players have made plays, both have had bad plays. Looks like the benching isn't affecting Slay's confidence so maybe a little time on the bench will end up being a good thing.

Burnt badly? He stayed with a speed WR and had his hand in the play.


Define "in the play" because I don't remember it that way and can't find a video of it online to check. I remember him being a couple yards behind the receiver.
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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nnivolcm wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Nnivolcm wrote:
LionsFTW wrote:
lions on top wrote:
Louis Friend wrote:
He's struggled, but so has Mathis, and Houston. Should we bench them too? We haven't gotten burned by Slays poor play. There is no reason to NOT play him. If you don't want to start him... fine. If you want Mathis is late in games... fine. But play the damn kid and let him learn. That's how you develop players. Maybe this is why so many of our draft picks don't pan out. We'd rather run average vets into the ground, then attempt to stick with an average young guy.

My point exactly!! Why do we keep taking valuable playing times away from young guys for the likes of vets who really aren't performing much better?


QBs are throwing 52 percent with a 67 qbr against Mathis. Add in 0 TDs allowed and 3 PDs and id say that Mathis isn't struggling.


Those stats are greatly helped by the Calvin Johnson rule that stopped a long TD from counting were Mathis was burnt badly last week. Both players have made plays, both have had bad plays. Looks like the benching isn't affecting Slay's confidence so maybe a little time on the bench will end up being a good thing.

Burnt badly? He stayed with a speed WR and had his hand in the play.


Define "in the play" because I don't remember it that way and can't find a video of it online to check. I remember him being a couple yards behind the receiver.

He was within arms length when he caught it, then his right arm actually makes contact with both Robinsons' arm and the ball while falling.
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LionsFan630


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CB is one of those positions that it's rare to see someone come in and play great right away. Everyone should've expected some growing pains.
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sparty


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just another of many bad Lions 2nd round picks... I swear we should just trade every 2nd rounder we ever get.

That's an overreaction after 3 games, of course. But seriously- why do the Lions fail so miserably on what is supposed to be the best talent for the money in the 2nd round? Good teams are not built on 1st rounders, or diamond in the rough 5-6-7ths. They're built on consistently good picks in rounds 2-3-4.
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LionsFTW


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sparty wrote:
Just another of many bad Lions 2nd round picks... I swear we should just trade every 2nd rounder we ever get.

That's an overreaction after 3 games, of course. But seriously- why do the Lions fail so miserably on what is supposed to be the best talent for the money in the 2nd round? Good teams are not built on 1st rounders, or diamond in the rough 5-6-7ths. They're built on consistently good picks in rounds 2-3-4.


There was nothing wrong with that pick.

At all.
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nagahide13


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Posts: 11134
Location: Stumptown
PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Corners seem to be extremely misunderstood. Yes, it's one of the most physically demanding positions in all of football... but that doesn't mean it's purely physical. They almost never make immediate impact as rookies. It's a position that doesn't only demand unbelievable athleticism... it requires complete understanding of scheme and muscle memory that most of us can't even fathom.

In terms of all around difficulty, it's the only position in football that compares to QB.

Anyone ever heard the bit about Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers? (DHLF has me here I'm sure) She had to do everything he did... but backwards. In heels.

That's essentially what corners have to do in the NFL. Minus the heels. Laughing

Anyway... The point is this; Corners take a while to develop. We're trying to win games and develop our young talent at the same time... We play Slay because he has great upside and needs experience. We sub Mathis because he's currently smarter and more experienced, and isn't as likely to completely blow his coverage.

It's really not that big of a deal. Slay's getting his time and has a great attitude. He's going to work hard to get better.
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stylish313


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Janoris Jenkins sure looks great right out the gate. I know we're counting on Broyles to play a big role in our offense coming up, but what I would've given to trade up for Jenkins in last year's draft.

But Darius will be fine. Like Houston earlier in his career, he's struggling to find his equilibrium within our zone. We've played a lot of it since 2011 when Houston had all of those shoulder injuries.
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FootballPhreak


Joined: 09 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2013 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly I don't think he has looked all that bad. Great? No. Am I ready to compare him to vets and put him on top whatever lists? No. But I am not certain he has been bad enough for me to bench him. He is taking his lumps, he is going to, but overall I really think he has proven to be a player in this league. That he deserves to be in the NFL and he is good enough RIGHT NOW to learn on the job.

Clearly Schwartz disagrees with me, but I am not certain he has earned up enough credit at this point for me to take his opinion over my own without question anymore.
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