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Tatupu_64


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If we cut Rice after the season is over, we only lose 2.4M compared to the ~10M his cap hit is for the next 2 years.

I'd still try and get him to restructure for something around 3 years, 3M a year, 3M of which is guaranteed. He's worth it at that price.
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...13 Seahawks one spot over the 08 Steelers

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LO freaking L...Seahawks aren't repeating crap and you can book that
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imani


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tatupu_64 wrote:
imani wrote:
Tatupu_64 wrote:
imani wrote:
Tatupu_64 wrote:
imani wrote:
Tatupu_64 wrote:
imani wrote:
canucks9314 wrote:
imani wrote:
SoS and I had a brief discussion on rice's trade value.

What do you guys thing we can get for Sidney? Is he even worth trading?


Value is probably a 6th. Rather keep him and release/restructure next year. He does add an element to our receiving corps that the others don't. All of our other receivers are too similar.


really? I would say height is the only similarity between the 4

Baldwin-Possession WR with great hands, great IQ, and good Route running
Tate-Playmaking WR with great YAC ability, above average hands, high vertical and solid speed
Kearse-Deep threat with solid speed and hands
Harvin-Pure playmaker with Elite Speed, Elite YAC ability, average hands, below average route running
Let's put it this way.

None of them are the big bodied possession receiver Rice is and even though Rice has sucked, none of them have the size to get that ball Rice tip-toed in on Sunday either.

With all that said, I'd want Rice to be playing at somewhere around 2.5M a year with how he's playing.


Obviously, but as you said, that can be had for much less. We've gone without a big possession receiver for over a decade in seattle (unless you want to count Williams or Jurevicious), it's not a huge need in a west coast offense.
D-Jax was a bigger bodied guy who was very good in the red zone.

We were also at our most prolific the year we had Jurevicious too


Darrell Jackson is 5'11......

And we were prolific because of our oline, run game and pass rush in 2005. JJ had 9-10 TD receptions (IIRC), but those were a result of SA literally absorbing all of the attention in the redzone and hasselbeck and this offense having one of the league's best playaction attacks as a result. 7 of his TD catches were within 25 yards of the endzone that year, 6 being in the redzone, 5 being within 10 yards. You could argue "exactly, and that's the redzone threat we need", but our offense is nowhere near as consistent, sound or potent at this point and Sidney Rice is a better player (with a larger catch radius, i might add) that hasn't produced the same results.

On "Reason the hawks made the superbowl in 2005", Joe wouldn't even grace the top 5. In 3 playoffs games that year he registered 7 catches and no TDs
Talking about our passing game...

And I was off by 2 inches on Jackson, but regardless, he was better than anyone on this team in the redzone. The man knew how to score.

This offense is not meant to work without a big guy out wide.


Well, rice is not that big guy....that's for damn certain.
You're delusional if you don't think Rice occupies that role. When Pete Carroll talks about size/big bodied guys, he's talking about height/length. He calls Sherman big bodied. That man is a twig. But he has height and wingspan.

Rice IS the big possession receiver. Just because he's only 210 doesn't mean otherwise. His main role in this offense is to function as the "catch radius" target who can make the intermediate catches and create mismatches in the endzone.


He doesn't occupy the role well, that's the point. If not for the jaguars game, Sidney rice is having a GARBAGE season right now. Our supposed #1 is being outplayed by our power RB in the passing game. Our UDFA making less than a 1 mil per year is outplaying him. It's just not acceptable

We either need more speed or physicality out of a #1, and I think someone like Josh Gordon would be a great idea. I wouldn't even bring Rice back for a discount, because frankly....i feel like he's just taking snaps away from other wideouts right now. It's getting to the point where the only downside to getting Harvin back will be Rice keeping a Tate or baldwin off of the field at times with his pedestrian play. It's time to go in another direction.
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I don't believe for one second that Seattle makes it out of their first playoff game.

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Tatupu_64


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rice isn't going to keep Tate or Baldwin off the field.

Baldwin and Percy's skillset is going to keep guys off the field. Neither Percy or Baldwin are really outside receivers. They limit themselves
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BlaqOptic wrote:
...13 Seahawks one spot over the 08 Steelers

ram29jackson wrote:
LO freaking L...Seahawks aren't repeating crap and you can book that
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imani


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tatupu_64 wrote:
Rice isn't going to keep Tate or Baldwin off the field.

Baldwin and Percy's skillset is going to keep guys off the field. Neither Percy or Baldwin are really outside receivers. They limit themselves


I see It as:

Z: Rice, Kearse, Harvin

x: Tate/Harvin

Y/slot: Harvin/Baldwin
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I don't believe for one second that Seattle makes it out of their first playoff game.

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Tatupu_64


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

imani wrote:
Tatupu_64 wrote:
Rice isn't going to keep Tate or Baldwin off the field.

Baldwin and Percy's skillset is going to keep guys off the field. Neither Percy or Baldwin are really outside receivers. They limit themselves


I see It as:

Z: Rice, Kearse, Harvin

x: Tate/Harvin

Y/slot: Harvin/Baldwin
Harvin and Tate as your go to outside receivers on a consistent basis is a recipe for disaster.

I like Kearse, but I don't trust him consistently yet. He makes big plays, but part of that is the Obo factor. Guys don't give him the respect they give a player like Rice.
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...13 Seahawks one spot over the 08 Steelers

ram29jackson wrote:
LO freaking L...Seahawks aren't repeating crap and you can book that
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Plush


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's just time for Rice to go, personally. Even with a pay cut I don't feel like he makes the most out the amount snaps he gets. Ive seen Tate open more this year and that's a really bad look for Sidney. I think he has the talent to thrive elsewhere, I just don't think he fits our plans. He's on pace for less than 30 receptions and he hasn't missed a game.
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Tatupu_64


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would not argue that Rice has had a good year, especially not statistically. But I wouldn't want Rice catching more than 50-60 balls in this offense. It's designed to spread the rock and Rice occupies a specific role within that scheme. Tate should be getting open more... He's a quicker guy, his game is built on separation. Rice's game is built on having a huge catch radius and making catches even while "covered" because of ball placement.
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BlaqOptic wrote:
...13 Seahawks one spot over the 08 Steelers

ram29jackson wrote:
LO freaking L...Seahawks aren't repeating crap and you can book that
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Plush


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tatupu_64 wrote:
I would not argue that Rice has had a good year, especially not statistically. But I wouldn't want Rice catching more than 50-60 balls in this offense. It's designed to spread the rock and Rice occupies a specific role within that scheme. Tate should be getting open more... He's a quicker guy, his game is built on separation. Rice's game is built on having a huge catch radius and making catches even while "covered" because of ball placement.


I've seen Tate getting more 50/50 looks than rice. Also Tate was a terrible route runner just two years ago, he shouldn't be getting open more than rice consistently. I just think a more physical receiver would be much bEttr in this offense.
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Tatupu_64


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plush wrote:
Tatupu_64 wrote:
I would not argue that Rice has had a good year, especially not statistically. But I wouldn't want Rice catching more than 50-60 balls in this offense. It's designed to spread the rock and Rice occupies a specific role within that scheme. Tate should be getting open more... He's a quicker guy, his game is built on separation. Rice's game is built on having a huge catch radius and making catches even while "covered" because of ball placement.


I've seen Tate getting more 50/50 looks than rice. Also Tate was a terrible route runner just two years ago, he shouldn't be getting open more than rice consistently. I just think a more physical receiver would be much bEttr in this offense.
I would prefer Vincent Jackson to Rice, I agree. I'm not saying Rice is ideal, just that I am not ready to cut him without a plan in place.
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BlaqOptic wrote:
...13 Seahawks one spot over the 08 Steelers

ram29jackson wrote:
LO freaking L...Seahawks aren't repeating crap and you can book that
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imani


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plush wrote:
Tatupu_64 wrote:
I would not argue that Rice has had a good year, especially not statistically. But I wouldn't want Rice catching more than 50-60 balls in this offense. It's designed to spread the rock and Rice occupies a specific role within that scheme. Tate should be getting open more... He's a quicker guy, his game is built on separation. Rice's game is built on having a huge catch radius and making catches even while "covered" because of ball placement.


I've seen Tate getting more 50/50 looks than rice. Also Tate was a terrible route runner just two years ago, he shouldn't be getting open more than rice consistently. I just think a more physical receiver would be much bEttr in this offense.


Agreed
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I don't believe for one second that Seattle makes it out of their first playoff game.

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sirensong


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dwayne Bowe anyone?
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imani


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sirensong wrote:
Dwayne Bowe anyone?


I'd trade them rice and a 4th for Bowe
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wwhickok wrote:
I don't believe for one second that Seattle makes it out of their first playoff game.

Russell Wilson Fan since July 2012
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thedudehi


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All I've heard is that Bowe has been playing like garbage. Have you guys actually watched him play or are you just going off name and Bowe's perceived strengths?
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SoS


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thedudehi wrote:
All I've heard is that Bowe has been playing like garbage. Have you guys actually watched him play or are you just going off name and Bowe's perceived strengths?


Alex Smith is a huge detriment to what he can do on the field.
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sirensong


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thedudehi wrote:
All I've heard is that Bowe has been playing like garbage. Have you guys actually watched him play or are you just going off name and Bowe's perceived strengths?


Hes not getting anything close to the looks he got with Smith spreading it around.

Bowe is still an elite possesion receiver whos put in a situation to fail. Hes leaps and bounds better than Rice and always has been. Rice got a payday off Favre making him looking like an elite player. Bowe hasnt ever had that kind of help.
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