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The Running Game #3 best 10/29
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strat1080


Joined: 16 Apr 2010
Posts: 1866
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ronald323 wrote:
Siman08/OH wrote:
Ronald323 wrote:
Siman08/OH wrote:
Might get flamed for this...but...

I do like Lacy. Through 2 full games he is showing that he will be the answer for us for a long time. I would love to see some 100 yards games and a 1000 yard season. He adds another dimension to our offense.

But,

Did anybody else feel like the running game is effecting Rodgers and the receivers rhythm a little? The last few weeks have not looked like Packers football. Yes we had a few big plays and Nelson is making some nasty grabs, but overall i dont feel it. Especially compared to late 2010-2011 Green Bay. Finishing drives is especially ugly. We used to get hot and march all over the field. Now were fizzling out on short yardage third downs way more often then we should.

Just an observation.



not really the packers are 4th in passing


Just imagine how much better we would be. We have been leaving alot of points on the field this season as compared to the last 3 years.


i know the packers are running more but Arod never been a guy who pass the ball over 50 times a game . i never got why people think thats what the packers do all the time


And that is why Arod is incredibly underrated. He isn't like Brees who needs 40+ pass attempts to hit 300 yards on a regular basis. Rodgers rarely exceeds 40+ pass attempts yet routinely has big time yardage production in the passing game.

People think of the Packers and they think we throw it 40+ times a game. Rodgers has never thrown more than 552 passes in a season. That's 34.5 passes per game.

What Brees and the Saints do is kind of cheap. Year after year about 1/3 of Brees' passing yards come on dumpoffs to RBs. That is why Brees didn't get more MVP votes in 2011 when Rodgers won it. Rodgers' stats aren't inflated. They are legit.

Brees has eclipsed 650 pass attempts four times since he's been in NO. Some people look at that and think Brees is carrying that team. The reality is that the Saints use short passes to RBs in lieu of a run game. He averages well over 40 passes per game but a good chunk of those are short screens and dumpoffs to RBs. The Saints like to load their team with RBs that can catch the ball.
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Ronald323


Joined: 25 Jan 2009
Posts: 617
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HA green bay got some of that Alabama Crimson Tide running game from 2012 love it
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Willink


Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 11474
Location: Albany, NY
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who would have thunk this before the season:

http://pfref.com/tiny/OKlB2

Sitting at:

-7th in rush attempts
-4th in rush yards
-14th in rush TD's
-3rd in rush Y/A

According to FO (not updated for this week):
-1st in adj. line yards
-1st in RB yards per carry (Eagles + Redskins are ahead of us in gross Y/A thanks to QB's)
-5th in Power Success
-5th in least stuffed
-4th in second-level yards
-6th in open-field yards
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incognito_man


Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 30884
Location: Madison
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too bad we didn't get lacy 3 years ago...
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squire12


Joined: 15 Mar 2013
Posts: 2115
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Willink wrote:
Who would have thunk this before the season:

http://pfref.com/tiny/OKlB2

Sitting at:

-7th in rush attempts
-4th in rush yards
-14th in rush TD's
-3rd in rush Y/A

According to FO (not updated for this week):
-1st in adj. line yards
-1st in RB yards per carry (Eagles + Redskins are ahead of us in gross Y/A thanks to QB's)
-5th in Power Success
-5th in least stuffed
-4th in second-level yards
-6th in open-field yards


During last nights game, MM really stuck to the run game. Lacy started with the following:
Drive #1: 4, 0, -5, 1, 2, -1
Drive #2: 7, 5, 2 (Starks for 7, 2), 0, 17, 1
Drive #3: -2
First half totals: Lacy 13 rushes for 31 yards, Starks 2 for 9.

In past years, MM would likely not have kept running the rock (depleted WR/TE positions factors in) with those numbers. This year, he is certainly sticking with the run much more and it is paying dividends.
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MMcKay16


Joined: 03 Jan 2012
Posts: 325
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

squire12 wrote:
Willink wrote:
Who would have thunk this before the season:

http://pfref.com/tiny/OKlB2

Sitting at:

-7th in rush attempts
-4th in rush yards
-14th in rush TD's
-3rd in rush Y/A

According to FO (not updated for this week):
-1st in adj. line yards
-1st in RB yards per carry (Eagles + Redskins are ahead of us in gross Y/A thanks to QB's)
-5th in Power Success
-5th in least stuffed
-4th in second-level yards
-6th in open-field yards


During last nights game, MM really stuck to the run game. Lacy started with the following:
Drive #1: 4, 0, -5, 1, 2, -1
Drive #2: 7, 5, 2 (Starks for 7, 2), 0, 17, 1
Drive #3: -2
First half totals: Lacy 13 rushes for 31 yards, Starks 2 for 9.

In past years, MM would likely not have kept running the rock (depleted WR/TE positions factors in) with those numbers. This year, he is certainly sticking with the run much more and it is paying dividends.


Best part is that even though it wasn't overly effective in the first half, come second half the Vikings front four were tired and giving Rodgers plenty of time to make his reads.
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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 13863
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No doubt Lacy has played a huge part here. Don't sell EDS short in terms of being the tone setter though either. EDS is very much so the OL version of Jolly on the other side.

EDS is anything but a premium talent but that guy was born a man and that rubs off in a big way. The guys in that room love him and his weight room numbers are starting to become a thing of legend in Green Bay. This is still a mans game and EDS does a ton of things men respect.

That said, none of this would add up to a hill of beans if Mac did not make a few changes along the way with his fits up front. Players will not respect you if your not playing high grade football as EDS has since week3.

It's going to be telling for a host of reasons to see if they sign EDS long term. What do they want to be up front? Crossroads!
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incognito_man


Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 30884
Location: Madison
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
No doubt Lacy has played a huge part here. Don't sell EDS short in terms of being the tone setter though either. EDS is very much so the OL version of Jolly on the other side.

EDS is anything but a premium talent but that guy was born a man and that rubs off in a big way. The guys in that room love him and his weight room numbers are starting to become a thing of legend in Green Bay. This is still a mans game and EDS does a ton of things men respect.

That said, none of this would add up to a hill of beans if Mac did not make a few changes along the way with his fits up front. Players will not respect you if your not playing high grade football as EDS has since week3.

It's going to be telling for a host of reasons to see if they sign EDS long term. What do they want to be up front? Crossroads!


EDS a smart cat? That's what I'd think is an absolute must for our staff there. Seems like if a guy makes himself trustworthy on line calls he's probably not gonna get shown the door if the price is anywhere close to right.
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Dunderhead


Joined: 13 Nov 2009
Posts: 2547
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
What do they want to be up front? Crossroads!


McCarthy is from Pittsburgh... I think he was really wounded by those comments about not being physical. For some reason they cut me as a fan too.
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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 13863
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

incognito_man wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
No doubt Lacy has played a huge part here. Don't sell EDS short in terms of being the tone setter though either. EDS is very much so the OL version of Jolly on the other side.

EDS is anything but a premium talent but that guy was born a man and that rubs off in a big way. The guys in that room love him and his weight room numbers are starting to become a thing of legend in Green Bay. This is still a mans game and EDS does a ton of things men respect.

That said, none of this would add up to a hill of beans if Mac did not make a few changes along the way with his fits up front. Players will not respect you if your not playing high grade football as EDS has since week3.

It's going to be telling for a host of reasons to see if they sign EDS long term. What do they want to be up front? Crossroads!


EDS a smart cat? That's what I'd think is an absolute must for our staff there. Seems like if a guy makes himself trustworthy on line calls he's probably not gonna get shown the door if the price is anywhere close to right.


Yes by league standard, average by TT/Mac's standard. Agree 100% that there clearly is a premium there in house. The guys on both sides of him are VERY high football IQ guys though and every snap he takes counts. I have little doubt that part of his game will be good enough by all given time(OK now). Clearly the long term issue with EDS is his shortcomings in a heavy zone fit. Man will hold his in a phone booth. But some of the second level/combo stuff is just not his game. Guys a try hard type that will give ya everything. Just falls short in the skills needed to grade out well in those fits. Maybe he could be better if he cut off some pounds(playing at 315lbs right now) but it's never going to be his game.

LIS, this thing is in a bit of a crossroads in terms of what they want to do up front with the run blocking.
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skibrett15


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1102
Location: nibelheim
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

screw the zone blocking.

With the back(s) we have, the way defenses want to play our pass game (smallish fast dudes on the line) we won't have any trouble pushing them out of the way for easy gains. With the zone stuff there's always penetration at some level and if a read is missed it's a negative play...

Why not just put hat on hat and push those (not-so) bigs out of the way!?

If they want to trot out 4 300 lbers then we'll just pass all day long anyway.
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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 13863
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clearly one could make a very strong case for your line of thinking there. Zone is nice for a host of reasons as well. One of them being a lack of talent at the RB position. Fact is, Lacy is many things but light on talent is sure as hell not one of them.
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CentralFC


Joined: 03 Feb 2011
Posts: 3913
Location: Evanston, IL
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

palmy50 wrote:
incognito_man wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
No doubt Lacy has played a huge part here. Don't sell EDS short in terms of being the tone setter though either. EDS is very much so the OL version of Jolly on the other side.

EDS is anything but a premium talent but that guy was born a man and that rubs off in a big way. The guys in that room love him and his weight room numbers are starting to become a thing of legend in Green Bay. This is still a mans game and EDS does a ton of things men respect.

That said, none of this would add up to a hill of beans if Mac did not make a few changes along the way with his fits up front. Players will not respect you if your not playing high grade football as EDS has since week3.

It's going to be telling for a host of reasons to see if they sign EDS long term. What do they want to be up front? Crossroads!


EDS a smart cat? That's what I'd think is an absolute must for our staff there. Seems like if a guy makes himself trustworthy on line calls he's probably not gonna get shown the door if the price is anywhere close to right.


Yes by league standard, average by TT/Mac's standard. Agree 100% that there clearly is a premium there in house. The guys on both sides of him are VERY high football IQ guys though and every snap he takes counts. I have little doubt that part of his game will be good enough by all given time(OK now). Clearly the long term issue with EDS is his shortcomings in a heavy zone fit. Man will hold his in a phone booth. But some of the second level/combo stuff is just not his game. Guys a try hard type that will give ya everything. Just falls short in the skills needed to grade out well in those fits. Maybe he could be better if he cut off some pounds(playing at 315lbs right now) but it's never going to be his game.

LIS, this thing is in a bit of a crossroads in terms of what they want to do up front with the run blocking.


But will the mentality change? Will the grind-it-out, punch you in the mouth style be affected if we choose to swap out EDS for a young buck or Tretter? I can't imagine losing the identity we've been slowly progressing toward.

I still remember EDS's demolition of Fairley in the Lion game at Green Bay last season. Awesome stuff.
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Defense Rules


Joined: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 106
Location: Alaska
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

skibrett15 wrote:
screw the zone blocking.

With the back(s) we have, the way defenses want to play our pass game (smallish fast dudes on the line) we won't have any trouble pushing them out of the way for easy gains. With the zone stuff there's always penetration at some level and if a read is missed it's a negative play...

Why not just put hat on hat and push those (not-so) bigs out of the way!?

If they want to trot out 4 300 lbers then we'll just pass all day long anyway.



Absolutely! Took MM years to get past pure ZB and to where this run game is now. ZB is all about coaches and system play taking over, and how much holding you can get away with. Which is what cost us the SB against Denver when Shanahan ZB moved laterally and got away with holding all game long. Too many teams tried to copy that, including MM. This Packer run game is for real, and has been long overdue.

Add Jolly on the other side of the line, and kiss that "soft' label goodbye....this team is nasty.
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palmy50


Joined: 26 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CentralFC wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
incognito_man wrote:
palmy50 wrote:
No doubt Lacy has played a huge part here. Don't sell EDS short in terms of being the tone setter though either. EDS is very much so the OL version of Jolly on the other side.

EDS is anything but a premium talent but that guy was born a man and that rubs off in a big way. The guys in that room love him and his weight room numbers are starting to become a thing of legend in Green Bay. This is still a mans game and EDS does a ton of things men respect.

That said, none of this would add up to a hill of beans if Mac did not make a few changes along the way with his fits up front. Players will not respect you if your not playing high grade football as EDS has since week3.

It's going to be telling for a host of reasons to see if they sign EDS long term. What do they want to be up front? Crossroads!


EDS a smart cat? That's what I'd think is an absolute must for our staff there. Seems like if a guy makes himself trustworthy on line calls he's probably not gonna get shown the door if the price is anywhere close to right.


Yes by league standard, average by TT/Mac's standard. Agree 100% that there clearly is a premium there in house. The guys on both sides of him are VERY high football IQ guys though and every snap he takes counts. I have little doubt that part of his game will be good enough by all given time(OK now). Clearly the long term issue with EDS is his shortcomings in a heavy zone fit. Man will hold his in a phone booth. But some of the second level/combo stuff is just not his game. Guys a try hard type that will give ya everything. Just falls short in the skills needed to grade out well in those fits. Maybe he could be better if he cut off some pounds(playing at 315lbs right now) but it's never going to be his game.

LIS, this thing is in a bit of a crossroads in terms of what they want to do up front with the run blocking.


But will the mentality change? Will the grind-it-out, punch you in the mouth style be affected if we choose to swap out EDS for a young buck or Tretter? I can't imagine losing the identity we've been slowly progressing toward.

I still remember EDS's demolition of Fairley in the Lion game at Green Bay last season. Awesome stuff.


I would be the first one to tell ya EDS has some flaws ya need to live with. That said, I think I'm just about ready to pay the man if I'm TT and that in bold plays a huge part in it. It's not like we are talking about Barclay at tackle long term here. Pending what you do up front EDS is a very solid starter.

EDIT: And yes. If you get in EDS face, it will not take him long to let you know your there. Say what you want about his talent. Trust me, I get it. Fact is, you can't coach that mindset. You have it or you don't.....period!
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