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Saints RB Mark Ingram expected to seek trade from Saints
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Harper41


Joined: 29 Aug 2009
Posts: 19726
Location: Roll Tide Country
PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sec104row6 wrote:
FLOODx wrote:
Sec104row6 wrote:
FLOODx wrote:
Pierre and Khiry have looked fine running the ball the last two games. The O Line needs improvement, but that doesn't mean Ingram doesn't suck.


We have what? 3 rushing TD's this year? ..and one of them was Brees...and we're ranked #24 in rushing in the league.

Yeah, right...it's all Ingrams fault...


Compare Ingrams production with every other back on our team.

PT 3.5 YPC, Khiry 4.4 YPC, Sproles 3.9 YPC, Ingram 1.8 YPC.

I never once said it was all Ingram's fault. The O line has struggled, and needs to get better. Ingram either isn't a good back for our system because he needs to get into a rythm and be the main back, or he just flat out isn't good.



Right..1.8 ypc. He only played 2 games and has been hurt.

Ingram averaged 3.9 the past 2 years.

So, if that "sucks", then what does that say about PT only averaging 3.5? Does he "suck", too?

What about Sproles?..If Ingram "sucks" at 3.9, then Sproles must "suck", too, right?


PT scored 6 TD's the past 2 years.

Sproles had 3

Ingram scored 10.

It's the O line.

They don't run block..and BARELY pass block. Brees has been sacked 18 times already this year. He won't survive at this rate.

The only reason we win is because Brees is unnaturally good. It surely isn't our "fearsome" running game.

If we had an ordinary QB and only averaged 75 yards rushing per game we'd be 1-6 instead of 6-1

Lol yeah lets completely ignore the fact that Sproles and Pierre are GREAT at catching the ball and working screens while Ingram is completely useless. Ingram sucks dude. He's NEVER produced, while many others have. Chris Ivory, Pierre Thomas and Darren Sproles have all looked WORLDS better than him in the past. He's just not good, accept it and move on. Players bust, it happens.
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Sec104row6


Joined: 22 Sep 2013
Posts: 41
PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Harper41 wrote:
Sec104row6 wrote:
FLOODx wrote:
Sec104row6 wrote:
FLOODx wrote:
Pierre and Khiry have looked fine running the ball the last two games. The O Line needs improvement, but that doesn't mean Ingram doesn't suck.


We have what? 3 rushing TD's this year? ..and one of them was Brees...and we're ranked #24 in rushing in the league.

Yeah, right...it's all Ingrams fault...


Compare Ingrams production with every other back on our team.

PT 3.5 YPC, Khiry 4.4 YPC, Sproles 3.9 YPC, Ingram 1.8 YPC.

I never once said it was all Ingram's fault. The O line has struggled, and needs to get better. Ingram either isn't a good back for our system because he needs to get into a rythm and be the main back, or he just flat out isn't good.



Right..1.8 ypc. He only played 2 games and has been hurt.

Ingram averaged 3.9 the past 2 years.

So, if that "sucks", then what does that say about PT only averaging 3.5? Does he "suck", too?

What about Sproles?..If Ingram "sucks" at 3.9, then Sproles must "suck", too, right?


PT scored 6 TD's the past 2 years.

Sproles had 3

Ingram scored 10.

It's the O line.

They don't run block..and BARELY pass block. Brees has been sacked 18 times already this year. He won't survive at this rate.

The only reason we win is because Brees is unnaturally good. It surely isn't our "fearsome" running game.

If we had an ordinary QB and only averaged 75 yards rushing per game we'd be 1-6 instead of 6-1

Lol yeah lets completely ignore the fact that Sproles and Pierre are GREAT at catching the ball and working screens while Ingram is completely useless. Ingram sucks dude. He's NEVER produced, while many others have. Chris Ivory, Pierre Thomas and Darren Sproles have all looked WORLDS better than him in the past. He's just not good, accept it and move on. Players bust, it happens.


sure....dude.
whatever you say.
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jcvoodoo


Joined: 26 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow...just wow! Are you just that hard-headed/stubborn or have a total man-crush on Ingram? Not that it matters either way, you're definately entitled to your opinion.

You have to admit though... Ingram has not been a good pick for the Saints. Flashes of promise...yes... but not nearly enough to stay IMO.
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FLOODx


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sec104row6, I don't want you to think we're a bunch of jerks since you're a new poster. We'd love to have you post in here as often as possible. We just don't like Ingram. Lol
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jcvoodoo


Joined: 26 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

FLOODx wrote:
Sec104row6, I don't want you to think we're a bunch of jerks since you're a new poster. We'd love to have you post in here as often as possible. We just don't like Ingram. Lol


THIS! Laughing


Welcome to the forum!!
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domepatrol91


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Joined: 26 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reggie Bush, who most would consider a bust (not that he was bad for us, just not #2 overall worthy) is in a totally different league (in a good way) than Ingram.

That's really saying something.
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Sec104row6


Joined: 22 Sep 2013
Posts: 41
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jcvoodoo wrote:
wow...just wow! Are you just that hard-headed/stubborn or have a total man-crush on Ingram? Not that it matters either way, you're definately entitled to your opinion.

You have to admit though... Ingram has not been a good pick for the Saints. Flashes of promise...yes... but not nearly enough to stay IMO.



hahahaha "man crush". Keep your fantasies to yourself.

I'm just saying that it's still too early to make a firm decision...especially since we have one of the worst offensive lines in the league.

I'm sure some of you initially thought Ditka was a great coach...or Haslett was a great coach and Brooks was a great QB..or Carl Smith was a great offensive coordinator...those of you old enough to even remember those teams.

I was studying football and attending Saints games before some of you were even born.
I've seen them all..every player and every coach.... and heard every excuse since '67.
It's still too early to declare Ingram a "bust". No one can run effectively behind this o line. Our rushing stats prove it every week.
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Sec104row6


Joined: 22 Sep 2013
Posts: 41
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jcvoodoo wrote:
FLOODx wrote:
Sec104row6, I don't want you to think we're a bunch of jerks since you're a new poster. We'd love to have you post in here as often as possible. We just don't like Ingram. Lol


THIS! Laughing


Welcome to the forum!!


Yeah, I see that.

LMAO..
Thanks for the welcome.
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Sec104row6


Joined: 22 Sep 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

domepatrol91 wrote:
Reggie Bush, who most would consider a bust (not that he was bad for us, just not #2 overall worthy) is in a totally different league (in a good way) than Ingram.

That's really saying something.


Reggie Bush has more rushing yards than anyone on our roster..THAT says a lot about our O line, too...


...or else ALL of our RB's "suck" and Reggie is "great"...
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whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
Posts: 3132
Location: Nawlins
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sec104row6 wrote:
domepatrol91 wrote:
Reggie Bush, who most would consider a bust (not that he was bad for us, just not #2 overall worthy) is in a totally different league (in a good way) than Ingram.

That's really saying something.


Reggie Bush has more rushing yards than anyone on our roster..THAT says a lot about our O line, too...


...or else ALL of our RB's "suck" and Reggie is "great"...


Man... not calling you out here but you criticize people when they show you the stats regarding the rushing numbers by runners compared to Ingram's then make your case for Ingram citing the stats?

Which is it...
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Jlowe22


Joined: 27 Dec 2009
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Location: South Mississippi
PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The point is that even if our run blocking was acceptable, Ingram gives us no reason to believe he would out-produce Sproles or Thomas or even Robinson. And if he's like Bush, then he needs to go anyway because this offense isn't a good environment for him.
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whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jlowe22 wrote:
The point is that even if our run blocking was acceptable, Ingram gives us no reason to believe he would out-produce Sproles or Thomas or even Robinson. And if he's like Bush, then he needs to go anyway because this offense isn't a good environment for him.


Here's my take on Ingram...

I was not opposed to drafting Ingram but was opposed to what we had to give up to get him. I felt at the time that Ingram and Stephen Ridley were the two best backs in the draft but both had high-mid 2nd round grades but understood if a team took one of them in the back half of the 1st round.

Ingram was not worth what the Saints gave up for him even before he put on a Saints uniform and the fact that the Saints surrendered what they did to get him put even more pressure on him from the fan base. Sean Payton likely thought he was getting a battering ram to solve his offense's short yardage woes but if so he picked the wrong back. Ridley was the battering ram and at LSU he was never taken down on first contact and lead the SEC in rushing with Jordan Jefferson at QB (think about that one for a second). Ridley's style at LSU was very similar of what we see in Khiry Robinson now.

Ingram on the other hand benefited from a superior offensive line at Bama where he was rarely contested at the LOS and never had to truly fight for tough yardage on a consistant basis. He was a product of the system that made a good back look great and Payton fell for it.

Mark Ingram didn't make the Saints trade up for him and as such isn't at fault for what was given up for him but it is what it is though and when a franchise gives up what the Saints did for a 1st round running back, expectations for that player is for him to become your teams bell cow. It also isn't Ingram's fault that the offensive he was drafted in really doesn't fit his skill set and the fact that his offensive coordinator (Sean Payton) for all his passing genius, is actually average at best in his running schemes. The superior power play of the Alabama offensive line and the holes Ingram was accustomed to running through isn't there anymore and hes been relegated behind a passive and soft offensive front who first job is to be pass blockers and not run maulers. Ingram's injury issues also has been a major problem during his time here as well as his inability to do anything more than be a runner from the HB position.

Once we got Ingram and when he did play, we found out a few more things we didn't see at Bama. For as big and as powerful as he is, Ingram is very easy to bring down on first contact. THis is NOT a good trait for a power back in the NFL!!! In this league you as a runner have to have the ability to make the first defender miss and Ingram has proven to be incapable of doing that. Ingram's vision has also become a concern. He just does not see what's around him, he simply sees whats in front of him and has tunnel vision (go see his last run on the goal line). Above all, Ingram through 3 seasons has shown zero progression in my opinion.

Maybe its Ingram, maybe its the line or the play calling... my opinion is that it's a combination of the 3 but the one fact is that it simply isn't working after 3 years and it's time to move on. I do not hate Ingram as a player and if he returned from injury to explode into a great player for us I would be the happiest fan in New Orleans but my personally feeling is that when it comes to Ingram with the Saints, what you see is what you get and so far all I see is a bust.
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Canadian Saint


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

People may not agree with Sec104, but he's right on some level. None of our RBs have consistently produced. Yeah Ingram has sucked this season, but neither PT nor Sproles nor Khiry have consistently given us 4 YPC.

I'm not saying Ingram hasn't sucked, and his attitude hasn't helped, but people completely disregard the fact that the other RBs on this roster haven't produced. It's simple as that. Not to mention, it's been seen that when Ingram is on the field, he sees something like 8 people in the box consistently (he was top-10 last year). That combined with our crappy run blocking, forgive me for understanding where some of his struggles have come from.

And no, I don't have a man crush on Ingram or anything, so save me that nonsense.
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whodatworm23


Joined: 23 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Canadian Saint wrote:
People may not agree with Sec104, but he's right on some level. None of our RBs have consistently produced. Yeah Ingram has sucked this season, but neither PT nor Sproles nor Khiry have consistently given us 4 YPC.

I'm not saying Ingram hasn't sucked, and his attitude hasn't helped, but people completely disregard the fact that the other RBs on this roster haven't produced. It's simple as that. Not to mention, it's been seen that when Ingram is on the field, he sees something like 8 people in the box consistently (he was top-10 last year). That combined with our crappy run blocking, forgive me for understanding where some of his struggles have come from.

And no, I don't have a man crush on Ingram or anything, so save me that nonsense.


I think the problem with Ingram will and always be tied to the expectations with him. Ingram is a 1st & 2nd round selection and with that comes high expectations and while none of the other runners have done tremendously better... there production is still MUCH better than Ingram's.

We can talk all we want about how it doesn't matter how a player got here but the fact is that it does especially in the eyes of fans. Now as far as Ingram facing 8 in the box... blame that on Sean Payton for putting Ingram in a situation to fail because defense's understand, they watch tape. When Ingram is in the game 75% of the time the defense already knows whats coming. No that is not Ingram's fault, that is Payton's but what is Payton's reasoning behind the lack of diversity in his play calling when Ingram is in the game? Could it be that Ingram has still not proven to be anything more than a runner after 3 seasons in the NFL? If so then it's on both of them!

My point is that regardless of what and where you want to cast the blame on Mark Ingram's failures with the Saints, to me it all boils down to two things...

1. Sean Payton isn't going anywhere and isn't changing his style for no one.
2. Mark Ingram will never be successful in Sean Payton's offense.

So, what to do? I think the answer is clear...
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jcvoodoo


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

whodatworm23 wrote:
Canadian Saint wrote:
People may not agree with Sec104, but he's right on some level. None of our RBs have consistently produced. Yeah Ingram has sucked this season, but neither PT nor Sproles nor Khiry have consistently given us 4 YPC.

I'm not saying Ingram hasn't sucked, and his attitude hasn't helped, but people completely disregard the fact that the other RBs on this roster haven't produced. It's simple as that. Not to mention, it's been seen that when Ingram is on the field, he sees something like 8 people in the box consistently (he was top-10 last year). That combined with our crappy run blocking, forgive me for understanding where some of his struggles have come from.

And no, I don't have a man crush on Ingram or anything, so save me that nonsense.


I think the problem with Ingram will and always be tied to the expectations with him. Ingram is a 1st & 2nd round selection and with that comes high expectations and while none of the other runners have done tremendously better... there production is still MUCH better than Ingram's.

We can talk all we want about how it doesn't matter how a player got here but the fact is that it does especially in the eyes of fans. Now as far as Ingram facing 8 in the box... blame that on Sean Payton for putting Ingram in a situation to fail because defense's understand, they watch tape. When Ingram is in the game 75% of the time the defense already knows whats coming. No that is not Ingram's fault, that is Payton's but what is Payton's reasoning behind the lack of diversity in his play calling when Ingram is in the game? Could it be that Ingram has still not proven to be anything more than a runner after 3 seasons in the NFL? If so then it's on both of them!

My point is that regardless of what and where you want to cast the blame on Mark Ingram's failures with the Saints, to me it all boils down to two things...

1. Sean Payton isn't going anywhere and isn't changing his style for no one.
2. Mark Ingram will never be successful in Sean Payton's offense.

So, what to do? I think the answer is clear...


I think it is obvious what we need to do in the draft. Get young, explosive OW/RB and revamp the OL. This does not mean go purely offense this draft. If defensive BPA outweighs an offensive BPA, then you need to make 2 + 2 = 4 not 14. Just my two pennies... take it or leave it

Oh, and for the record I have been and will continue to show support/have faith in Mark Ingram. I will also be realistic too.
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