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Brock Osweiler's value
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Donut


Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 12489
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

elwayfan07 wrote:
I think Von nets at least as much as Jared Allen did.


I can't see any team give up 2 first for him right now. His issues and everything hurt his value to the point no team is going to discuss trading for him since the actual value to Denver and what they'll see what he's worth w/ suspensions will drastically differ. The 1 mistake from year long suspension is a huge deal though(and Denver will use it as leverage to pay him less and add things to his deal). If he was clean and playing he's worth at least that.

thebestever6 wrote:
elliot878 wrote:
The thread title puts forth a solid question, that is then ruined by the conversation in here.


As the thread title goes, Brock's probably worth a 2nd. He's done nothing to hurt, or help his stock. That may change tonight, if he gets a quarter and rocks it.

The better question, that can be posed next week, or the year after, is what is Dysert's value, because that's who we're most likely to be selling.

I disagree I thought Brock played well in pre season completing 65% to 69% of his passes. He looked much more comfortable reading defenses. He may of held the ball too long but Denver had no depth at wr. I also think the more looks he gets the more comfortable he will be at getting rid of the ball.

Brock has the physical tools of a first round pick. The thing about him was he was raw. To see him improving his mechanics ups his value. He is also getting better mentally sitting behind the most cerebral qb of all time this also helps his value.

Coming into the draft it was said Brock has a high football IQ. I'm not sure how good his functional football IQ was but his first season with Denver it was bad. Functional football IQ is pretty snap reads, reading defenses, throwing a wr open instead of when he is open. I know Peyton is elite in this category of Brock can develop half of that he will be a great player.

I think qbs with the potential Oz has warrant first round picks. If he proved himself during regular season game that's where you move up in class when it comes to trades. He would go up from one premier pick to multiple ala Cutler or RG3.

QB class matters. I can't see you getting a first in a good QB class. Granted I havent watched a ton this yr and Fales is regressing but if class ends up being as good as its supposed to be I cant see a team dealing a 1st instead of drafting a QB. Washington fans talking Cousins being worth a first in some places. I liked Cousins a lot but I wouldn't trade a first for him.
elliot878 wrote:
The better question, that can be posed next week, or the year after, is what is Dysert's value, because that's who we're most likely to be selling.

Pretty low right now. I like Dysert. He was one of the late round QBs I graded as a mid round pick. I think he's going to end up being a pretty good QB and I didn't buy into the he doesnt care concern because he isn't a very actively showing interest in his body language(I have no idea how to explain it; most Qbs you see something in their body language when happy or upset and Dysert lacked that enough it bothered some scouts). backup QBs are weird trying to value. Everyone wants to peg theirs as worth picks and more often than not they're over valued. Hoyer was a pretty good backup w/ solid potential and he was released and passed around the league a bit. Lombardi talked him up in articles prior to being on the Browns. Flynn's interest was really generated from his game vs Det and no picks were involved. So I can't see a 3rd stringer being traded.
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JerseysFinest27


Joined: 07 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Donut wrote:
elwayfan07 wrote:
I think Von nets at least as much as Jared Allen did.


I can't see any team give up 2 first for him right now. His issues and everything hurt his value to the point no team is going to discuss trading for him since the actual value to Denver and what they'll see what he's worth w/ suspensions will drastically differ. The 1 mistake from year long suspension is a huge deal though(and Denver will use it as leverage to pay him less and add things to his deal). If he was clean and playing he's worth at least that.

You couldnt be any more wrong. Allen went for a 1st, 2-3rd's and a 6th. He was 1 shot away as well. Thats a 1st and a 2nd value BTW. Being that Von is one of top-3 defensive players in football, hes worth at least 2-1sts.
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The Helicopter


Joined: 31 Dec 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Donut wrote:
I can't see any team give up 2 first for him right now.


Jerry Jones would...then play him at running back.

As for Brock, until he see's the prime time I don't think he has much value (for other teams).
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elwayfan07


Joined: 13 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JerseysFinest27 wrote:
Donut wrote:
elwayfan07 wrote:
I think Von nets at least as much as Jared Allen did.


I can't see any team give up 2 first for him right now. His issues and everything hurt his value to the point no team is going to discuss trading for him since the actual value to Denver and what they'll see what he's worth w/ suspensions will drastically differ. The 1 mistake from year long suspension is a huge deal though(and Denver will use it as leverage to pay him less and add things to his deal). If he was clean and playing he's worth at least that.

You couldnt be any more wrong. Allen went for a 1st, 2-3rd's and a 6th. He was 1 shot away as well. Thats a 1st and a 2nd value BTW. Being that Von is one of top-3 defensive players in football, hes worth at least 2-1sts.


Plus I believe Allen was only a year away from Free Agency.
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mke1010


Joined: 08 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even with all the issues, I would never trade VON for less than 3 first round picks. There, I said it! He's that good. A Line backer who can be dominant in all facets of the game- run defense, pass protection and has the potential to be the best pass rushing line backer to ever play the game.

Call me deluded but anyone who contacts me about trading for VON- thats where I put his market value and I will not budge much off this price.
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candyman93


Joined: 02 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who the hell from our forum suggested this...? Was it Buno?
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thebestever6


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 2187
PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Donut wrote:
elwayfan07 wrote:
I think Von nets at least as much as Jared Allen did.


I can't see any team give up 2 first for him right now. His issues and everything hurt his value to the point no team is going to discuss trading for him since the actual value to Denver and what they'll see what he's worth w/ suspensions will drastically differ. The 1 mistake from year long suspension is a huge deal though(and Denver will use it as leverage to pay him less and add things to his deal). If he was clean and playing he's worth at least that.

thebestever6 wrote:
elliot878 wrote:
The thread title puts forth a solid question, that is then ruined by the conversation in here.


As the thread title goes, Brock's probably worth a 2nd. He's done nothing to hurt, or help his stock. That may change tonight, if he gets a quarter and rocks it.

The better question, that can be posed next week, or the year after, is what is Dysert's value, because that's who we're most likely to be selling.

I disagree I thought Brock played well in pre season completing 65% to 69% of his passes. He looked much more comfortable reading defenses. He may of held the ball too long but Denver had no depth at wr. I also think the more looks he gets the more comfortable he will be at getting rid of the ball.

Brock has the physical tools of a first round pick. The thing about him was he was raw. To see him improving his mechanics ups his value. He is also getting better mentally sitting behind the most cerebral qb of all time this also helps his value.

Coming into the draft it was said Brock has a high football IQ. I'm not sure how good his functional football IQ was but his first season with Denver it was bad. Functional football IQ is pretty snap reads, reading defenses, throwing a wr open instead of when he is open. I know Peyton is elite in this category of Brock can develop half of that he will be a great player.

I think qbs with the potential Oz has warrant first round picks. If he proved himself during regular season game that's where you move up in class when it comes to trades. He would go up from one premier pick to multiple ala Cutler or RG3.

QB class matters. I can't see you getting a first in a good QB class. Granted I havent watched a ton this yr and Fales is regressing but if class ends up being as good as its supposed to be I cant see a team dealing a 1st instead of drafting a QB. Washington fans talking Cousins being worth a first in some places. I liked Cousins a lot but I wouldn't trade a first for him.
elliot878 wrote:
The better question, that can be posed next week, or the year after, is what is Dysert's value, because that's who we're most likely to be selling.

Pretty low right now. I like Dysert. He was one of the late round QBs I graded as a mid round pick. I think he's going to end up being a pretty good QB and I didn't buy into the he doesnt care concern because he isn't a very actively showing interest in his body language(I have no idea how to explain it; most Qbs you see something in their body language when happy or upset and Dysert lacked that enough it bothered some scouts). backup QBs are weird trying to value. Everyone wants to peg theirs as worth picks and more often than not they're over valued. Hoyer was a pretty good backup w/ solid potential and he was released and passed around the league a bit. Lombardi talked him up in articles prior to being on the Browns. Flynn's interest was really generated from his game vs Det and no picks were involved. So I can't see a 3rd stringer being traded.

I personally think other than Bridgewater this qb class is being over rated.
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broncosfan07


Joined: 21 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brett Smith is a legit QB in this class, not that we'll be in the market for one.
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germ-x


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2013 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unless Denver really likes Dysert and feels that he can be a better player than Osweiler, i feel that Osweiler is more valuable for the Broncos than for any other team. QB's as physically gifted as Osweiler aren't always available in the late 1st and 2nd rounds and with Manning under center that is where the Broncos will be drafting. Trading Osweiler would put Denver in a big game of chance to start the post Manning era.

Interestingly though, i had a friend call me last night who said, "If Denver can continue protecting Manning and keeping the weapons around him this guy could easily play out that 5 year contract. He doesn't look any different now than he did in his 5th season in Indianapolis." I must say, i agree with this. I don't know that Manning would stick around if he were going to take a beating or if his talent was so/so, but if Denver keeps improving those areas and making his job that much easier, i don't see any reason he won't be a Denver Bronco for the next 2 to 3 years.
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thebestever6


Joined: 03 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

broncosfan07 wrote:
Brett Smith is a legit QB in this class, not that we'll be in the market for one.

I never say never man Elway values the Qbs position. Who knows what can happen between now and then. I never thought I'd see Peyton on the Broncos at one point or Cutler traded but it happened. Smith concerns me for playing for a smaller school, and durability may be an issue. I can see him falling but he has potential . And I Like his versatility.
Denver doesn't have many holes so if he falls to the third or fourth elway may take him as a value pick. Or say Peyton shows no signs of slowing down and Arians calls to inquire about oz to run the verticle passing game and he dishes out a first. I think I'm a little bit higher on osweiler than others in this forum. I saw a lot of growth this year. In the NFL you never know .
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jsthomp2007


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

germ-x wrote:
Unless Denver really likes Dysert and feels that he can be a better player than Osweiler, i feel that Osweiler is more valuable for the Broncos than for any other team. QB's as physically gifted as Osweiler aren't always available in the late 1st and 2nd rounds and with Manning under center that is where the Broncos will be drafting. Trading Osweiler would put Denver in a big game of chance to start the post Manning era.

Interestingly though, i had a friend call me last night who said, "If Denver can continue protecting Manning and keeping the weapons around him this guy could easily play out that 5 year contract. He doesn't look any different now than he did in his 5th season in Indianapolis." I must say, i agree with this. I don't know that Manning would stick around if he were going to take a beating or if his talent was so/so, but if Denver keeps improving those areas and making his job that much easier, i don't see any reason he won't be a Denver Bronco for the next 2 to 3 years.



I have to agree. I mean, Elway selected Brock with the mission to have him groomed and ready, behind Manning. I don't think the Broncos have the intention of bringing him along so that they can trade him. He is the future of the team when Manning decides to retire.
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BroncoinGermany


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jsthomp2007 wrote:
germ-x wrote:
Unless Denver really likes Dysert and feels that he can be a better player than Osweiler, i feel that Osweiler is more valuable for the Broncos than for any other team. QB's as physically gifted as Osweiler aren't always available in the late 1st and 2nd rounds and with Manning under center that is where the Broncos will be drafting. Trading Osweiler would put Denver in a big game of chance to start the post Manning era.

Interestingly though, i had a friend call me last night who said, "If Denver can continue protecting Manning and keeping the weapons around him this guy could easily play out that 5 year contract. He doesn't look any different now than he did in his 5th season in Indianapolis." I must say, i agree with this. I don't know that Manning would stick around if he were going to take a beating or if his talent was so/so, but if Denver keeps improving those areas and making his job that much easier, i don't see any reason he won't be a Denver Bronco for the next 2 to 3 years.



I have to agree. I mean, Elway selected Brock with the mission to have him groomed and ready, behind Manning. I don't think the Broncos have the intention of bringing him along so that they can trade him. He is the future of the team when Manning decides to retire.


I agree. I don't think Oz will be trade unless it is for picks exceeding the value of the spot he was drafted in (even then, the offer would have to be absurdly good). No, the added competition and trade bait in the QB room is Dysert. If he shows promise over next few preseasons, I think the team would be willing to let him go to a desperate team in exchange for a mid round pick. Similar to the past cases of Feely, Flynn, Cassel and Kolb.
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AKRNA


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the last few posts nail it. The FO has invested a lot in Brock, both a draft choice and two years tutelage behind PM. He showed huge progress over his rookie season this year.

IMO he's the safest person on the roster. Very hard to replace and also, more valuable in the Bronco's eyes than in any one else's.
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champ+jay+al=SB


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AKRNA wrote:
I think the last few posts nail it. The FO has invested a lot in Brock, both a draft choice and two years tutelage behind PM. He showed huge progress over his rookie season this year.

IMO he's the safest person on the roster. Very hard to replace and also, more valuable in the Bronco's eyes than in any one else's.


Agreed. I don't think we let him go/get away even if PM plays longer than expected.
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paul-mac


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only thing that worries me a bit would be if Manning plays another 2 seasons after this one and wants to play on still after that, and then Brock would be out of contract and probably getting cold feet.


Maybe someone might pry him away
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