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Greatest Pats Team?
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Best team?
1985
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
1996
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
2001
3%
 3%  [ 1 ]
2003
6%
 6%  [ 2 ]
2004
46%
 46%  [ 15 ]
2007
43%
 43%  [ 14 ]
Total Votes : 32

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RMolloy24


Joined: 15 Jun 2013
Posts: 102
Location: Ireland
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:20 am    Post subject: Greatest Pats Team? Reply with quote

We've had many awesome teams, three Superbowl wins all lead by Tom Brady, but who do you think was the best? The '07 Pats were so dominant that it's crazy how they didn't win that Superbowl.
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I_GET_SAX


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

2004. Still a defensive oriented team. Brady just coming into goat form. Corey Dillion made this team complete.
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NextBigThing


Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Level of play is obviously 2007, but success is 2003 or 2004.
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24isthelaw


Joined: 15 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
Level of play is obviously 2007, but success is 2003 or 2004.


Rolling Eyes

The '04 Steelers were a better team than the '07 Pats, and the '04 Pats spanked them too.
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PatriotsWin!


Joined: 10 Jan 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
Level of play is obviously 2007, but success is 2003 or 2004.


I agree with this. The 2007 team was amazing to watch, i went into every game expecting a blowout Laughing . But they didn't win the Super Bowl, so I guess that's considered a failure. 2004 was the best Pats team to win the Super Bowl.
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mcmurtry86


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2004 and I don't think it's particularly close.
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NinjaZX6R


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

2004.
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NextBigThing


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

24isthelaw wrote:
NextBigThing wrote:
Level of play is obviously 2007, but success is 2003 or 2004.


Rolling Eyes

The '04 Steelers were a better team than the '07 Pats.


Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Dalton


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys are nuts. The 07' team was a fluke play away from the greatest season and team of all time.
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24isthelaw


Joined: 15 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dalton wrote:
You guys are nuts. The 07' team was a fluke play away from the greatest season and team of all time.


Look at it this way - do you really think, that if the '04 Pats played the '07 Pats, the '07 Pats would win????

They were a fluke play away, sure, but considering how many chances they had to defeat a mediocre team, if they were really that great it wouldn't have even come to that.

Reality is, the '07 team blew out a bunch of awful teams in the regular season, played poorly in the AFCCG, was God-awful in the Super Bowl. What's so impressive about that? The '07 Pats eeked one out versus a Chargers team that didn't have their best player, and then got beat by a Giants team that was completely mediocre.

The '04 Pats went 14-2, held the most prolific quarterback in league history to a field goal, demolished the 15-1 Steelers, who were one of the best teams of the decade, and then took down the NFC champs.

If you think the '04 Pats wouldn't have stomped the '07 Pats, I have a bridge to sell you.
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goldfishwars


Joined: 27 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcmurtry86 wrote:
2004 and I don't think it's particularly close.
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Richter


Joined: 11 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In terms of never making me worry that they were going to lose? The 2003 team. In terms of well-rounded roster construction? 2004. In terms of dominance over inferior competition? 2007. All depends on the criteria you'd like to use. Personally, I prefer the 2003 squad. Not quite as gifted offensively as 2004, but the defense was better.
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NextBigThing


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

24isthelaw wrote:
do you really think, that if the '04 Pats played the '07 Pats, the '07 Pats would win?


Is this a joke?

2004 Patriots defense: 4th in league, 16.3 PPG
2007 Patriots defense: 4th in league, 16.5 PPG

2004 Patriots offense: 4th in league, 27 ppg
2007 Patriots offense: greatest ever, 37 ppg



Frankly, I think it would be a great game & would be silly to think the 2007 team would easily win, but it is nothing other than sheer lunacy to think the 2004 team would be favored to win.

The 2004 defense would be unlikely to confuse Brady into becoming a turnover machine, and big receivers killed the Patriots that season. Eric Moulds, Lee Evans, Marty Booker, Koren Robinson, Torry Holt, Eddie Kinnison, Antonio Bryant, Chad Johnson, TK Houshmanzadeh, Hines Ward, and even T.O. with one leg all had big to huge games against them that year.

The 2004 Patriots defense ranked 17th in the league against the pass. Something tells me Tom Brady, Randy Moss, Wes Welker, and everyone else would have given them major problems.
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
24isthelaw wrote:
NextBigThing wrote:
Level of play is obviously 2007, but success is 2003 or 2004.


Rolling Eyes

The '04 Steelers were a better team than the '07 Pats.


Laughing Laughing Laughing


I don't think it's that crazy. The Steelers D that year was absolutely dominant.

The 2007 Patriots after about week 8 or 9 of the season were not an all time great team. They put up ridiculous numbers blowing out some pretty bad teams in the first half of the season. The last 10 games or so there were your run of the mill good playoff team. Even had they won that Super Bowl, I'm not sure I would have considered them the overall best team. Just the one which finished with the overall best record.

Here's the thing though, if you're saying "the 2007 Patriots were so great because they were 18-1 and 1 play away from a perfect record" then clearly you are basing their "greatness" on their record and wins and losses. In that case, I'd say a team that goes 17-2 and actually wins the Super Bowl is every bit as good or more impressive, especially when you factor in strength of opponents and such.

For all the talk of how dominant the 2007 offense was, here's a stat for you. Over the final 11 games (week 9 through the Super Bowl), the offense averaged 371 yards per game. Only 4 times did they top 400 yards (and once had 400 exactly). That's not even close to a dominant offense and we've seen better in New England over the last couple of years. People on this board were crying disaster when this year's Patriots "only" put up 431 ugly yards against Buffalo week 1. What's 371 yards look like? Well the 2010 Patriots that got "shut down" by the Jets in the playoffs? They had 372 yards offense in that game. That's how not dominant the 2007 Patriots were after midseason in 2007.

Forget the epic choke at the end of the year, that team is one of the most overrrated teams of all time in terms of the way they are remembered. If they lose 1 regular season game (say the Baltimore game that Bart Scott lost for the Ravens) and it's just another excellent but not particularly memorable team. Yes, the 16-0 season was a great achievement and I'm not trying to diminish the team's results in terms of wins/losses. But in terms of on-field performance, that team was probably not in the top 15 all time teams. There were a number of regular season games that were within 1 or 2 plays of swinging the other way. Just like a lot of 14-2 or 15-1 teams over the course of history. 16-0 is special but it is also flukey and requires luck more than anything. Just like they were 1 fluke play from being 19-0, they were one more fluke play away from being 17-2 (etc).

In other words, I think there are a lot of teams that went 17-2, 17-1, 16-2 etc who were every bit as good or better than the 2007 Patriots. Whether or not it was the weight of the undefeated streak or the 2nd half Patriots being much closer to that team's true ability level, I'm not sure. But 8 great games against some bad teams isn't historic nor is it the sign IMO of a truly great "team".

Back to the 2004 Steelers - that defense allowed more than 300 yards just 5 times (including the loss to the Patriots in the AFCCG). That defense was better than the 2007 Pats offense.
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NextBigThing


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

24isthelaw wrote:
They were a fluke play away, sure, but considering how many chances they had to defeat a mediocre team, if they were really that great it wouldn't have even come to that.


Are you saying the Giants were a mediocre team? The same Giants who went in Dallas and owned the 13-3 Cowboys, and then into Lambeau to own the Packers?

All credibility is lost the second you insinuate the Giants were playing at anything other an extremely elite level when they played the Patriots in the super bowl.

Quote:
Reality is, the '07 team blew out a bunch of awful teams in the regular season, played poorly in the AFCCG, was God-awful in the Super Bowl. What's so impressive about that?


The Cowboys went 13-3, and we beat them 48 to 27. The colts did pretty well and we beat them. The Steelers were a great team, and we blew them out.

Quote:
The '07 Pats eeked one out versus a Chargers team that didn't have their best player, and then got beat by a Giants team that was completely mediocre.


Giants completely mediocre? Please pass me what you are smoking.

Quote:
The '04 Pats went 14-2, held the most prolific quarterback in league history to a field goal, demolished the 15-1 Steelers, who were one of the best teams of the decade, and then took down the NFC champs.


None of those teams feature offense even comparable to the 07 Pats; not even the Colts. Moss and Welker are ridiculous duo; getting to Brady was the only wy to stop them and I highly doubt the 04 pats get to brady regularly enough to win the game.

Quote:
If you think the '04 Pats wouldn't have stomped the '07 Pats, I have a bridge to sell you.


17th ranked passing defense against Tom Brady, Randy Moss, and everybody else is going to have problems. One good game against Peyton Manning does not mean jack. If you do not think that, you're the one in the market for phony real estate.
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