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Week 3: Detroit Lions vs Washington Redskins
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Geronimo


Joined: 07 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:

1. Alfred Morris:

He is averaging 6.1 yards a carry this year and RG3 has been no threat to run at all. We just haven't run the ball enough, more often than not when he gets the ball he goes for positive yardage and he's broken a few for big gains.

Last year when RG3 was barely a threat to run the ball after he hurt his knee and Kirk Cousins played vs the Browns, Morris carried this offense to the playoffs.

In those final 4 games averaged 84 yards rushing a game, 4.6 yards a carry and had 6 touchdowns

2. Roy Helu:

In 2011 before RG3 was even drafted he had 640 yards rushing on 151 carries for a 4.2 yard average and that OL wasn't as good at run blocking as this OL is because Kory Lichtensteiger was out for the year with his knee injury.

Helu also only started 5 games in 2011. He had 3 straight 100 yard games where he averaged 111 yards a game, 4.6 yards a carry and he had 2 touchdowns.



Numbers do not say everything. RG3 has put up good numbers in these two games. Helu has had good numbers in awful seasons.

Last year Kyle S. has found a golden mine with the read option. It forced the defenses to stay honest and focus on multiple options, setting our receivers open. This year he cannot rely on the read option, so we are going back to our old, bad gameplan and old, bad plays.

We do not play screen passes or slant passes on a regular basis, and we should.

In most of our passing plays, I see our receivers with their back towards the endzone, waiting for the ball. That is clearly a deflected, if not picked, pass. I have seen these situations with McNabb, with Grossman and I am seeing them now with RG3, on and on. I am no expert of X's and O's, but is that a well designed passing game?
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RSkinGM


Joined: 06 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Geronimo wrote:
Marcus21 wrote:
Im a little shocked that some of you guys are freaking out like this!! We are one game out of the division! ...


Well, no, it's not that simple. Our game is already over at half time.
I didn't realize the season ended after two games....


You didn't ? Where you been !? Didn't you hear the stats they were reading..Less than 12% of 0-2 teams make the playoffs .. Damn close to over .
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geronimo wrote:
turtle28 wrote:

1. Alfred Morris:

He is averaging 6.1 yards a carry this year and RG3 has been no threat to run at all. We just haven't run the ball enough, more often than not when he gets the ball he goes for positive yardage and he's broken a few for big gains.

Last year when RG3 was barely a threat to run the ball after he hurt his knee and Kirk Cousins played vs the Browns, Morris carried this offense to the playoffs.

In those final 4 games averaged 84 yards rushing a game, 4.6 yards a carry and had 6 touchdowns

2. Roy Helu:

In 2011 before RG3 was even drafted he had 640 yards rushing on 151 carries for a 4.2 yard average and that OL wasn't as good at run blocking as this OL is because Kory Lichtensteiger was out for the year with his knee injury.

Helu also only started 5 games in 2011. He had 3 straight 100 yard games where he averaged 111 yards a game, 4.6 yards a carry and he had 2 touchdowns.



Numbers do not say everything. RG3 has put up good numbers in these two games. Helu has had good numbers in awful seasons.

Last year Kyle S. has found a golden mine with the read option. It forced the defenses to stay honest and focus on multiple options, setting our receivers open. This year he cannot rely on the read option, so we are going back to our old, bad gameplan and old, bad plays.

We do not play screen passes or slant passes on a regular basis, and we should.

In most of our passing plays, I see our receivers with their back towards the endzone, waiting for the ball. That is clearly a deflected, if not picked, pass. I have seen these situations with McNabb, with Grossman and I am seeing them now with RG3, on and on. I am no expert of X's and O's, but is that a well designed passing game?
no doubt #s don't tell the whole story but people need to quit acting like we don't have the coaches and players to be a winning team.

The pessimism is beyond annoying surrounding our football team right now.

I'd say Kyle has a damn good track record and Mike Shanahan with offenses. I trust them to figure out this years formula soon and get this offense pumping out 30 point games with solid plays from the first quarter through the 4th like they had last year.

The passing game is well designed when we have a running game to set it up, but if there's no running game, then it's not as successful.

Every team in the NFL has receivers with their backs turned towards the endzone waiting in the ball to come. I think you should study every teams offense before just blasting ours. We're not doing anything different than anyone else in the league when we aren't doing our stretch zone running plays, bootlegs off of them or zone read option plays.

Victor Cruz, Wes Welker and Miles Austin have most of their slot receptions when they run come backs, curls or short zone read pass plays against defenses. Welker's done it in Denver and he did for 5 years in New England. All tight ends run plays where they have a come back, curl or sit down in a zone as do running backs out of the backfield.

Rg3 hasn't had the best timing so far, nor been the most accurate with his receivers, but these guys have to help him out some also.

The first two games remind me of Pittsburgh and Carolina last year when everyone (including the head coach) were writing off the season and calling for Hasletts head.

Everyone needs to calm down!

Rg3 is not getting benched
Hasletts not getting fired mid season
And this team is going to turn things around and have a respectable season, if not a playoff season again
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Last edited by turtle28 on Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:25 pm; edited 2 times in total
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are the Giants talking about benching Eli?

He had 4 picks last game. Redskins fans are the most impatient fans in the world.

#ridiculous
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Geronimo


Joined: 07 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:

The pessimism is beyond annoying surrounding our football team right now.


Among the Redskins fans I am one of those who have least expectations. I predicted a record no better than 8-8 before the preseason.

turtle28 wrote:

I'd say Kyle has a damn good track record and Mike Shanahan with offenses. I trust them to figure out this years formula soon and get this offense pumping out 30 point games with solid plays from the first quarter through the 4th like they had last year.

The passing game is well designed when we have a running game to set it up, but if there's no running game, then it's not as successful.


Really? Do you forget 2010 and 2011? We are playing the same gameplan again. Helu put up good numbers in those seasons. Were we satisfied?

This offense without the read option needs huge improvements.

turtle28 wrote:

Every team in the NFL has receivers with their backs turned towards the endzone waiting in the ball to come. I think you should study every teams offense before just blasting ours. We're not doing anything different than anyone else in the league when we aren't doing our stretch zone running plays, bootlegs off of them or zone read option plays.

Victor Cruz, Wes Welker and Miles Austin have most of their slot receptions when they run come backs, curls or short zone read pass plays against defenses. Welker's done it in Denver and he did for 5 years in New England. All tight ends run plays where they have a come back, curl or sit down in a zone as do running backs out of the backfield.


True, no doubt. My question is: How often? I do not complain about receivers coming back, I see our receivers standing still too often. Is it because I am a fan and overreact to bad passing plays?


turtle28 wrote:


Everyone needs to calm down!


I do. Operation: Patience. Wink
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PSID412


Joined: 28 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going for the Skins to win by 7. Honestly the Lions are not much better then us IMO I mean they made a ton a mistake and I feel like we can win this.
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turtle28


Joined: 21 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

RSkinGM wrote:
turtle28 wrote:
Geronimo wrote:
Marcus21 wrote:
Im a little shocked that some of you guys are freaking out like this!! We are one game out of the division! ...


Well, no, it's not that simple. Our game is already over at half time.
I didn't realize the season ended after two games....


You didn't ? Where you been !? Didn't you hear the stats they were reading..Less than 12% of 0-2 teams make the playoffs .. Damn close to over .
Yes, but our division sucks as Marcus21 pointed out. We lost when we were shocked, confused and overwhelmed week 1 vs the Eagles- the young guys put too much pressure on themselves on offense and they cracked under the pressure.

We lost in Green Bay where no one wins!

We are one game out of first place. I'm not guaranteeing playoffs, I've never does that. I think the team will continue to improve every week though and challenge for the division crown when it's all said and done
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TheGreeK1973


Joined: 30 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Are the Giants talking about benching Eli?

He had 4 picks last game. Redskins fans are the most impatient fans in the world.

#ridiculous


yea but Eli is not coming off his 2nd major knee injury AND tying to come back in 8 months when most doctors agree it takes at least a year to be fully healed...AP be damned.

Eli has always been a turnover machine if you think about it, but he has also been clutch and has two SB rings.

finally who is going to replace Eli if they sit him. Painter? LMAO, come on Turtle there isn't a choice there. With the skins there is. A healthy Cousins right now looks a much better choice than an RGIII that is tentative.
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TheGreeK1973


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

turtle28 wrote:
Are the Giants talking about benching Eli?

He had 4 picks last game. Redskins fans are the most impatient fans in the world.

#ridiculous


yea but Eli is not coming off his 2nd major knee injury AND tying to come back in 8 months when most doctors agree it takes at least a year to be fully healed...AP be damned.

Eli has always been a turnover machine if you think about it, but he has also been clutch and has two SB rings.

finally who is going to replace Eli if they sit him. Painter? LMAO, come on Turtle there isn't a choice there. With the skins there is. A healthy Cousins right now looks a much better choice than an RGIII that is tentative.
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Thaiphoon


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The time to start Cousins was Week 1 fellas.

That ship has sailed.

We started RG3, Week 1.

Which means, unless you want an all-out war on your hands, RG3 is who we're going to be starting the rest of the year (barring injury).

I'm pissed too. But playing Cousins now is the wrong move. We just have to realize that we're watching RG3's "preseason" now...

Unfortunately its in games that count.
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Geronimo


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thaiphoon wrote:
The time to start Cousins was Week 1 fellas.

That ship has sailed.

We started RG3, Week 1.

Which means, unless you want an all-out war on your hands, RG3 is who we're going to be starting the rest of the year (barring injury).

I'm pissed too. But playing Cousins now is the wrong move. We just have to realize that we're watching RG3's "preseason" now...

Unfortunately its in games that count.


I agree with the bolded sentences. Do not with the previous. No matter when you start off an injury, it will take time. Week 1, week, 5 or week 17, if it is your start, it is week 1 for you.

However, let's not overemphasize RG3's role. He is one of the players. The most important, but you can't win only with an elite QB. RG3 is not playing bad. Does anybody think Rex would put up better numbers?

Is it the players? Is it bad execution? Is it coordination (OC, DC)?
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Thaiphoon


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geronimo wrote:
Thaiphoon wrote:
The time to start Cousins was Week 1 fellas.

That ship has sailed.

We started RG3, Week 1.

Which means, unless you want an all-out war on your hands, RG3 is who we're going to be starting the rest of the year (barring injury).

I'm pissed too. But playing Cousins now is the wrong move. We just have to realize that we're watching RG3's "preseason" now...

Unfortunately its in games that count.


I agree with the bolded sentences. Do not with the previous. No matter when you start off an injury, it will take time. Week 1, week, 5 or week 17, if it is your start, it is week 1 for you.

However, let's not overemphasize RG3's role. He is one of the players. The most important, but you can't win only with an elite QB. RG3 is not playing bad. Does anybody think Rex would put up better numbers?

Is it the players? Is it bad execution? Is it coordination (OC, DC)?


He's hesitant...off target...late on throws...and doesn't want to try to extend plays (he's a virtual statue on passing downs now). Even Peyton Manning tries to extend plays.

Also - take a look at his #'s. I can bet most of them are in garbage time. So yeah, while the stat line may look good from a fantasy perspective, he's not been the sharp QB we saw last year. And a big part of this is the playcalling and his lack of willingness to extend plays. The former I place on the coaches. The latter I place on his lack of confidence in the knee.
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Geronimo


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thaiphoon wrote:


Also - take a look at his #'s. I can bet most of them are in garbage time. So yeah, while the stat line may look good from a fantasy perspective, he's not been the sharp QB we saw last year. And a big part of this is the playcalling and his lack of willingness to extend plays. The former I place on the coaches. The latter I place on his lack of confidence in the knee.


I agree with you to some extent on this (I still think Rex would have worse numbers even in garbage time). Do you think he would take confidence with training without playing on Sundays? I don't. He needs to play. There are no exhibition games until August 2014, should he wait until then?

It is a lose-lose situation, because of his injury in January. He has to go through some games with mediocre-to-normal performance. I also think that a better playcalling would help him.
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turtle28


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://tracking.si.com/2013/09/18/reggie-bush-injury-practice-lions-redskins-nfl/?xid=nl_siextra

Reggie Bush absent from today's Lions practice. Good chance he will miss Sundays game
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Thaiphoon


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geronimo wrote:
Thaiphoon wrote:


Also - take a look at his #'s. I can bet most of them are in garbage time. So yeah, while the stat line may look good from a fantasy perspective, he's not been the sharp QB we saw last year. And a big part of this is the playcalling and his lack of willingness to extend plays. The former I place on the coaches. The latter I place on his lack of confidence in the knee.


I agree with you to some extent on this (I still think Rex would have worse numbers even in garbage time). Do you think he would take confidence with training without playing on Sundays? I don't. He needs to play. There are no exhibition games until August 2014, should he wait until then?

It is a lose-lose situation, because of his injury in January. He has to go through some games with mediocre-to-normal performance. I also think that a better playcalling would help him.


Nope. I understand rust is a factor. Which is why I was willing to deal with rust after the bye (so-as to ensure beyond a shadow of a doubt that the knee is healthy) and to let Cousins run the offense.

But if we were hell-bent on playing him Week 1, then he needed to be out in the preseason games knocking off that rust.

And anyone who actually believes the story his knee wasn't 100% until just after the end of the last preseason game, well, I have a bridge to sell you. Rehabs don't work that way. If his knee was healthy for Week 1 (as we are led to believe) then it was healthy a few weeks before. And he could've knocked the rust off during preseason games.

Still, we are where we are now. Which means we have to deal with him looking like a very average QB until he knocks that rust off.
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