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Which week will Weeden become the backup QB?
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What week does Weeden become the backup QB?
Week 3
9%
 9%  [ 2 ]
Between weeks 4-7
14%
 14%  [ 3 ]
Between weeks 8-12
19%
 19%  [ 4 ]
Between weeks 13-17
9%
 9%  [ 2 ]
Never Weeden is awesome
47%
 47%  [ 10 ]
Total Votes : 21

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Thomas5737


Joined: 23 Dec 2009
Posts: 5239
Location: WV
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of all of the Weeden debates, this one is my favorite...don't know why.


I like Weeden's accuracy, it isn't pinpoint but it is good.

Yeah he needs work on his pocket presence. (just a time thing)
Yeah he isn't a scrambler. (doesn't have to be)
Yeah he takes too long to make decisions. (so does Ben and Romo. Could also be a "nobody open issue")
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toneloke23


Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 374
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fact that he was a rookie that sucked in a West Coast Offense doesn't make him any better. A great QB should be able to play in several different styles of offense if he has a wide set of talent.

I do agree that the West Coast was a very poor fit for Weeden's skillset and that was ridiculous for him to even have been drafted to run the WCO.
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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Posts: 2736
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thomas5737 wrote:
Of all of the Weeden debates, this one is my favorite...don't know why.


I like Weeden's accuracy, it isn't pinpoint but it is good.

Yeah he needs work on his pocket presence. (just a time thing)
Yeah he isn't a scrambler. (doesn't have to be)
Yeah he takes too long to make decisions. (so does Ben and Romo. Could also be a "nobody open issue")


Hey Thomas, the good QBs complete passes for TDs even when there aren't even receivers on the field--so of course they don't need anyone to be 'open'. Very Happy


But yes, you are absolutely right. I think you just nailed it. Thanks!
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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Posts: 2736
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

toneloke23 wrote:
The fact that he was a rookie that sucked in a West Coast Offense doesn't make him any better. A great QB should be able to play in several different styles of offense if he has a wide set of talent.

I do agree that the West Coast was a very poor fit for Weeden's skillset and that was ridiculous for him to even have been drafted to run the WCO.


He didn't suck as a rookie in the WCO. That's what you're ignoring LOL
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toneloke23


Joined: 06 Mar 2005
Posts: 374
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What doesn't suck about 14 TD's and 17 INT's on the season for a 72.6 passer rating leading us to a 5-11 record.

That is the epitome of suck.
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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

toneloke23 wrote:
What doesn't suck about 14 TD's and 17 INT's on the season for a 72.6 passer rating leading us to a 5-11 record.

That is the epitome of suck.


Really? Show me a rookie in the WCO that did better...
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toneloke23


Joined: 06 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RGIII comes to mind. Its not even close. He smoked Weeden in his rookie season in the WCO.

Andy Dalton also outperformed Weeden in his rookie season in the WCO.
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Entropy


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

toneloke23 wrote:
RGIII comes to mind. Its not even close. He smoked Weeden in his rookie season in the WCO.


Why do you think that RGIII ran the WCO?

Are you not familiar with the offense that Shanny runs?

It was a zone-read type of offense with a ZBS. It centers around running the ball.

Much easier for the QB than a super-complicated WCO.
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toneloke23


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am familiar with it and its still a WCO based offense whether you ascertain that or not. Offenses develop hybrid versions of standard offenses so they are not predictable. I figure you know this but it sounds maybe you do not.
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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

toneloke23 wrote:
I am familiar with it and its still a WCO based offense whether you ascertain that or not. Offenses develop hybrid versions of standard offenses so they are not predictable. I figure you know this but it sounds maybe you do not.


No, Shanny's offense is not a WCO--sorry

Dalton is a good example as Gruden runs a fairly complicated WCO scheme.

Anyone else?
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toneloke23


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kaepernick obviously... how many examples do you need. Others can handle the WCO as a rookie much better Weeden. You haven't made a strong argument yet about Weeden and his talent.
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Entropy


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

toneloke23 wrote:
Kaepernick obviously... how many examples do you need. Others can handle the WCO as a rookie much better Weeden. You haven't made a strong argument yet about Weeden and his talent.


You have Dalton so far...Kaep wasn't a rookie

Anyone else you want to add to the pool of 'better' rookie WCO QBs?

If not we'll just move on to comparing AJ Green to Josh Gordon--both guys were late arriving expansion draftees that didn't play the last year before they were drafted right?
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

toneloke23 wrote:
Kaepernick obviously... how many examples do you need. Others can handle the WCO as a rookie much better Weeden. You haven't made a strong argument yet about Weeden and his talent.


Oh, and where is your argument that Weeden will never be any good?
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bungleodeon


Joined: 19 Mar 2009
Posts: 8925
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

toneloke23 wrote:
I am familiar with it and its still a WCO based offense whether you ascertain that or not. Offenses develop hybrid versions of standard offenses so they are not predictable. I figure you know this but it sounds maybe you do not.
You are really in a lose/lose fight here. If we are talking about pure WCO's, there's probably 1 offense that is running a pure WCO right now. Maybe 3-4 over the last 5-6 years. Before that, it was pretty unusual to see any team starting a rookie in the first place, and obviously much more unusual for a rookie to be starting in the WCO. Since you probably only have 5-6 QB's to choose from since the turn of the century, the question itself was loaded and you shouldn't have bothered attempting to answer it.

I mean, what teams do you think would be "acceptable" WCO's for this topic of discussion?

Packers - Haven't started a rookie
Rams (shurmur) - Bradford was probably just a tad bit better than Weeden as a rookie.
Browns - Colt McCoy was probably just a tad bit wore as a rookie.
Eagles - McNabb only started 6 games as a rookie. Have to go clear back to 1999 for any QB to compare, so it's already a pretty sad comparison.
Detroit - Ok, so Brandon Weeden is clearly better than Joey Harrington as a rookie.
Bengals - Dalton was clearly better.
Texans - Didn't start a rookie during the years that would be considered as a pure WCO.
Dolphins - Think Tannehill was slightly better as a rookie.
Cardinals - Leinart had a pretty comparable season.

Am I missing anyone?

So basically he was asking you, was Weeden better as a rookie than:
Joey Harrington (yes)
Andy Dalton (no)
Ryan Tannehill (no)
Colt McCoy (maybe)
Sam Bradford (not really)
Leinart (maybe)

Long story short, the point that you were asked to prove really isn't a point at all. None of the even points at the fact that Weeden was about 6-8 years older than every other QB that we have to compare him against in this outrageously bad comparison. Where's that tom brady comparison again...
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freakygeniuskid


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Joined: 04 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't this the same person who started the stupid "Should we bench Weeden for Campbell" thread and then never posted in it again?

Weeden is the starter, no reason to not be.
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