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Why didn't the FO plug obvious holes?
They were content to get their D front seven in place
13%
 13%  [ 3 ]
They don't expect to win, didn't want to worsen our draft position
27%
 27%  [ 6 ]
They believe/know Weeden isn't the solution and want to conserve assets
18%
 18%  [ 4 ]
They are complete idiots and believe the Browns can win with the players they have
22%
 22%  [ 5 ]
Some other reason and here is what it is:
18%
 18%  [ 4 ]
Total Votes : 22

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MalcolmBrown


Joined: 26 Jul 2011
Posts: 618
Location: 2013 Adopt a Brownie: Leon McFadden: 1 solo tackle, 1 assist
PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entropy wrote:
As one of the advocates for drafting Milliner, I wonder how some would have reacted if the Browns had drafted him and then THIS happened.

Quote:
Rookie cornerback Dee Milliner, who the New York Jets hope will take over the Island formerly named after Darrelle Revis, was benched during Thursday's 13-10 loss to the New England Patriots after a series of miscues and miscommunications.


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000243577/article/rex-ryan-benches-rookie-cb-dee-milliner-in-jets-loss

Would we be willing to be patient while he developed, or would we be clamoring for firings in the FO for drafting a 1st round guy that gets benched early in the season for poor play?


I'm of the opinion that the draft is always a gamble anyway. They can't all become stars right away. A lot of them will just become average. But so long as someone is willing to give them a chance, there's an opportunity for growth. Many will never become what was expected of them.

Milliner was only one of the best CB prospects in the 2013 draft.

I don't think people (us Browns fans) would be clamoring for firings, but obviously some would already feel like he's a bust, I don't doubt that at all. If he doesn't clean up his game, then eventually this would fall on the heads of the the FO for making a bad pick, but week 2 is way early for that. But it doesn't mean that Milliner will ever be any good.
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NickZambo


Joined: 03 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entropy wrote:
As one of the advocates for drafting Milliner, I wonder how some would have reacted if the Browns had drafted him and then THIS happened.

Quote:
Rookie cornerback Dee Milliner, who the New York Jets hope will take over the Island formerly named after Darrelle Revis, was benched during Thursday's 13-10 loss to the New England Patriots after a series of miscues and miscommunications.


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000243577/article/rex-ryan-benches-rookie-cb-dee-milliner-in-jets-loss

Would we be willing to be patient while he developed, or would we be clamoring for firings in the FO for drafting a 1st round guy that gets benched early in the season for poor play?


Football fans would most likely say that it is game two of his career and he needs time.

Cleveland fans would more than likely call for people to be fired while enlightening the masses in Madden25 terms how to really draft and make trades.
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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the responses from Zambo and Malcolm. Thanks guys!

So, had we drafted Milliner, it would be likely that he would not be the guy playing the #2 CB spot right now--and it would still probably be Skrine.

But, Milliner could still be a very good solution to the #2 CB spot--just not for right now (maybe by the end of the year).

Well, I think that McFadden is in a similar position, with the difference being that he may have a lower ceiling (probably), but he only cost a 3rd round pick.

Comments?
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Mastercheddaar


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 2:56 pm    Post subject: hmmmm Reply with quote

They knew they were not going to win and wanted to save for next year... however knowing our luck I went with complete idiots.

that is all

Mastercheddaar
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toneloke23


Joined: 06 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think they are trying to build for sustainability. So stockpiling all the best older free agents and winning one season isn't the answer. Through the draft is the only way to build a long term sustainable dynasty. I get just as frustrated as the next Browns fan, but they are going about the right way. Sure we need a QB, CB, S, G, backup RB, #2 WR but Rome wasn't built in a day right..
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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

toneloke23 wrote:
I think they are trying to build for sustainability. So stockpiling all the best older free agents and winning one season isn't the answer. Through the draft is the only way to build a long term sustainable dynasty. I get just as frustrated as the next Browns fan, but they are going about the right way. Sure we need a QB, CB, S, G, backup RB, #2 WR but Rome wasn't built in a day right..



Yeah, and since stockpiling all the best older free agents just got the Eagles a 4-12 record and one of the best head coaches in the NFL fired--that's probably a really stupid thing to do.

It remains to be seen if we need a QB, CB, S, backup RB, and #2 WR.

I think that's what we'll find out this year.
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NickZambo


Joined: 03 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 13, 2013 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entropy wrote:
bruceb wrote:
Entropy wrote:
bruceb wrote:
Entropy wrote:
bruceb wrote:
Entropy wrote:
Estonianzulu wrote:
pmk wrote:
Estonianzulu wrote:
When they realized that Grimes was not going to sign soon they should have done something to stabilize the position. Instead they were left holding the bag, for the second time in one offseason. How many times have we heard that if someone leaves without a contract, they're gone? The FO is like a kid who ends up in community college because they only applied to Harvard and then didn't get in.

They're either naive, stupid or they don't care about the success of that position this season.
Not buying it. Grimes visited Miami the day before he visited Cleveland. Didn't make up his mind until 2 weeks after. Cleveland was very much still in play until the very end according to reports. They also signed Chris Owens as a hedge against Grimes going to Miami. They got screwed by Grimes taking 2 weeks to decide, don't see how anyone can say otherwise.


They let themselves get screwed is my point. Their goal was to improve the #2 cornerback position, through their inability to sign a #2 Corner they failed.

Or, their goal was to sign Brent Grimes and they had not interest in improving the #2 CB outside of that singular move. Either way, our team is the one that was left without a #2 CB. It doesnt matter what Brent Grimes decided, we were left without a player in an important position and our Front Office failed to correct it.

That's a failure, regardless of the circumstances.


Serious question...

Did you really read what pmk said?

There is no 'other' way to improve #2 CB aside from signing Grimes. And we did sign a player--Owens.

Please provide your list of available FA options at #2 CB that are clearly better than Grimes. When doing so (or not doing so), tell us who you would have signed while you were waiting for an answer from Grimes.

Better yet, please provide a list of all FA CBs that you would have preferred we signed, except Grimes, of course.

Please then exclude guys from that list that are likely to have forced Grimes to take Miami's offer sooner.

Yes, that's the best way to cut through all this theoretical [inappropriate/removed].


Must agree with EZ, and it's not just because its you, Entropy.

They were fixated on getting Grimes and had no Plan B. Grimes probably was the only DB out there who would have been more than a one-year fix if he panned out.


Plan B was Owens.

You want Grimes? Then you wait for his decision--which mean you lose anyone who is signed by another team while you are waiting.

You want player X instead? Then you wait for his decision--which means you lose anyone who is signed by another team while you are waiting.

It sounds like some people are thinking that the Browns were supposed to make a high offer to every possible candidate for the CB position, then choose from the guys that accepted the offers--it doesn't work that way AT ALL.

I really don't see what there is to disagree with. It just seems to me like some are misunderstanding the situation.


Hell of a Plan B, but perfectly consistent with the point that Grimes probably was the only DB out there who would have been more than a one-year fix if he panned out.


Yeah, I don't think there was anyone but Grimes that would have been a long term guy anyway.

It's not like there are a bunch of talented young DBs in every FA market.

So, what Plan B would you have preferred? Be realistic.


Answering questions with questions (or not answering them at all) is evasion strategy, Entropy.


Then stop doing it bruce.

Answer the question. What was a better Plan B?



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mtmmike


Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entropy wrote:
mtmmike wrote:
Entropy wrote:
EZ-

Just want to say that I wasn't criticizing your moderating job -- you do a better job than I could.

I just wish more people would talk about football and football points. Like many have done in this thread.

I believe our issues of disagreement regarding this topic have hit an impasse that neither of us is willing to cross.

I respect your opinion, but stand by my strong objection to the degree with which you fault the FO for not getting a better option at #2 CB.
ng I wrote YOU show a lack of football IQ.
THE browns should have had talib out there for 4th a round pick you will never admit it so stop posting like you are a creditable source.


1. Speak English please

1. what?

1. what?

1. I don't recall a discussion with you about talib---what?

SPEAK ENGLISH what PART of IQ dont you understand
Thank you have a good day(I hope you understand)
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bruceb


Joined: 15 Dec 2006
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Location: Rocky River, OH
PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 1:38 am    Post subject: Re: hmmmm Reply with quote

Mastercheddaar wrote:
They knew they were not going to win and wanted to save for next year... however knowing our luck I went with complete idiots.

that is all

Mastercheddaar


I wasn't even that harsh. Smile
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bruceb


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been trying to tell ya
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bruceb


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Btw: I voted:
They were content to get their D front seven in place
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Dropkick_pride


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bruceb wrote:
Btw: I voted:
They were content to get their D front seven in place


I voted, "They don't expect to win, didn't want to worsen our draft position."

I was more correct than I knew....
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bruceb


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

For most businesses the hardest part about it is setting an objective. In professional sports, that part is already done for the owners: Win the Super Bowl, World Series, NBA Championship, etc.

With the objective a given, failure can only be attributed to inept management.
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dawgdish


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I voted some other reason:

I don't think they expected to fill all the roster holes on the roster in one year (which almost dovetails with the front seven answer, and the didn't want to worsen draft position - which is a nice way of saying they are tanking it this year).

I was, however, very tempted to go with "complete idiots".
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