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Schwartz on Grew..
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wi7son


Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 1452
Location: Howell, MI
PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Schwartz on Grew.. Reply with quote

Louis Friend wrote:
Why did this need it's own thread? Why couldn't it have gone in the two other threads dicussing Pettigrew?


I apologized in advance for this in the original post, called myself a troll for doing so, but does it really matter it generated discussion rather it needed its own thread or not, guess I missed where you got you honoree moderator badge Louis I have obviously been absent from the forum to long but good mention Louis..
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TL-TwoWinsAway


Joined: 19 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
This dude would not be a starter on half the teams in the NFL yet gets so much support

Half of the teams? That's reasonable. So he'd still start for 16 teams. Sounds like a pretty good player.
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wi7son


Joined: 11 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
This dude would not be a starter on half the teams in the NFL yet gets so much support

Half of the teams? That's reasonable. So he'd still start for 16 teams. Sounds like a pretty good player.


I think the biggest argument is in the past Pett did put up BIG numbers and HAD big potential but at this point in in career I don't feel like he is a developmental player like others have mentioned and the biggest factor is now we have young talent at the TE position that can legitly threaten Petts amount of touches we didn't have or need that in the past because we tried to believe Pettiegrew was going to be a top 10 pro bowl catching/blocking TE but that window seems to have shut with the progression of young talent.. Same arguement can be made against Sheff.. We just want to see more from Fauria.

And the problem is not Swhartz defending Pettigrew it's the fact he made it a point when he could have complimented Bushs play in my mind he completely put aside commenting on Bush and made it a point to bring up Pettigrews positive blocking when Pettigrew was not even mentioned.
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TL-TwoWinsAway


Joined: 19 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wi7son wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
This dude would not be a starter on half the teams in the NFL yet gets so much support

Half of the teams? That's reasonable. So he'd still start for 16 teams. Sounds like a pretty good player.


I think the biggest argument is in the past Pett did put up BIG numbers and HAD big potential but at this point in in career I don't feel like he is a developmental player like others have mentioned and the biggest factor is now we have young talent at the TE position that can legitly threaten Petts amount of touches we didn't have or need that in the past because we tried to believe Pettiegrew was going to be a top 10 pro bowl catching/blocking TE but that window seems to have shut with the progression of young talent.. Same arguement can be made against Sheff.. We just want to see more from Fauria.

And the problem is not Swhartz defending Pettigrew it's the fact he made it a point when he could have complimented Bushs play in my mind he completely put aside commenting on Bush and made it a point to bring up Pettigrews positive blocking when Pettigrew was not even mentioned.

Fauria and Pettigrew don't have the same role on the team.
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detfan782004


Joined: 01 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
This dude would not be a starter on half the teams in the NFL yet gets so much support

Half of the teams? That's reasonable. So he'd still start for 16 teams. Sounds like a pretty good player.


I'm probably being very very optimistic in those numbers. I could probably find 20-24 teams with better but on phone right now
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stylish313


Joined: 17 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

detfan782004 wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
This dude would not be a starter on half the teams in the NFL yet gets so much support

Half of the teams? That's reasonable. So he'd still start for 16 teams. Sounds like a pretty good player.


I'm probably being very very optimistic in those numbers. I could probably find 20-24 teams with better but on phone right now
Pettigrew was the 57th rated TE in the NFL last season. That means he could be the #2 TE on around maybe, six teams?

Oh, and his base salary is around $2M this season, which means he's guaranteed to clear waivers. Not one team would pick up that salary, and he's costing us a total of $3.74M- what a rotten deal.
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TL-TwoWinsAway


Joined: 19 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
This dude would not be a starter on half the teams in the NFL yet gets so much support

Half of the teams? That's reasonable. So he'd still start for 16 teams. Sounds like a pretty good player.


I'm probably being very very optimistic in those numbers. I could probably find 20-24 teams with better but on phone right now
Pettigrew was the 57th rated TE in the NFL last season. That means he could be the #2 TE on around maybe, six teams?

Oh, and his base salary is around $2M this season, which means he's guaranteed to clear waivers. Not one team would pick up that salary, and he's costing us a total of $3.74M- what a rotten deal.

Last season was the worst of his career. Why not mention 2010 and 2011?
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stylish313


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
This dude would not be a starter on half the teams in the NFL yet gets so much support

Half of the teams? That's reasonable. So he'd still start for 16 teams. Sounds like a pretty good player.


I'm probably being very very optimistic in those numbers. I could probably find 20-24 teams with better but on phone right now
Pettigrew was the 57th rated TE in the NFL last season. That means he could be the #2 TE on around maybe, six teams?

Oh, and his base salary is around $2M this season, which means he's guaranteed to clear waivers. Not one team would pick up that salary, and he's costing us a total of $3.74M- what a rotten deal.

Last season was the worst of his career. Why not mention 2010 and 2011?
Because he's looked just as bad through TC and to start the season this year. He's not showing improvement- in fact, he's getting worst right before our eyes.
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detfan782004


Joined: 01 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TE I would take now over him

Cook
Davis
Clark
Winslow
Witten
Daniels
Myers
Finley
Celek
Olsen
Bennett
Gates
Graham
Miller
Gonzo
Gresham
Rudolph
Davis
Gronkowski
Pitta
Lewis
Kendrick's
Watson

These following barely proven but I'd take them too because ceiling so much higher

Cameron
J Thomas
Eifert
Allen
Dickson
Fleener
Clay
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TL-TwoWinsAway


Joined: 19 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
This dude would not be a starter on half the teams in the NFL yet gets so much support

Half of the teams? That's reasonable. So he'd still start for 16 teams. Sounds like a pretty good player.


I'm probably being very very optimistic in those numbers. I could probably find 20-24 teams with better but on phone right now
Pettigrew was the 57th rated TE in the NFL last season. That means he could be the #2 TE on around maybe, six teams?

Oh, and his base salary is around $2M this season, which means he's guaranteed to clear waivers. Not one team would pick up that salary, and he's costing us a total of $3.74M- what a rotten deal.

Last season was the worst of his career. Why not mention 2010 and 2011?
Because he's looked just as bad through TC and to start the season this year. He's not showing improvement- in fact, he's getting worst right before our eyes.

Oh. Right. Ignore his good years, mention only the worst season of his career, then draw conclusions on one regular season game.

Outstanding work. Truly groundbreaking stuff.
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stylish313


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
detfan782004 wrote:
This dude would not be a starter on half the teams in the NFL yet gets so much support

Half of the teams? That's reasonable. So he'd still start for 16 teams. Sounds like a pretty good player.


I'm probably being very very optimistic in those numbers. I could probably find 20-24 teams with better but on phone right now
Pettigrew was the 57th rated TE in the NFL last season. That means he could be the #2 TE on around maybe, six teams?

Oh, and his base salary is around $2M this season, which means he's guaranteed to clear waivers. Not one team would pick up that salary, and he's costing us a total of $3.74M- what a rotten deal.

Last season was the worst of his career. Why not mention 2010 and 2011?
Because he's looked just as bad through TC and to start the season this year. He's not showing improvement- in fact, he's getting worst right before our eyes.

Oh. Right. Ignore his good years, mention only the worst season of his career, then draw conclusions on one regular season game.

Outstanding work. Truly groundbreaking stuff.
In 2011 he was the 45th overall rated TE, and in 2010 he was rated the 41st overall TE.

Those years were better, but not necessarily good years. 2010 was the only year in his career when he was rated positively as a both a run and pass blocker. He has been rated negatively as a receiver his entire career, and as a blocker over the vast majority of his career.

You keep saying that we're making judgements based on a single game, but you have no ground to stand on with that statement so do yourself a favor and quit embarrassing yourself by repeating that sentiment.
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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
Those years were better, but not necessarily good years. 2010 was the only year in his career when he was rated positively as a both a run and pass blocker. He has been rated negatively as a receiver his entire career, and as a blocker over the vast majority of his career.

You keep saying that we're making judgements based on a single game, but you have no ground to stand on with that statement so do yourself a favor and quit embarrassing yourself by repeating that sentiment.

First paragraph: so he hasn't been poor/terrible as a blocker throughout his entire career. Interesting.

Second paragraph: I based that comment on this quote:
Quote:
Because he's looked just as bad through TC and to start the season this year. He's not showing improvement- in fact, he's getting worst right before our eyes.

Your opinion here is actually based on one regular season game: after one game, you're convinced that he's getting worse "right before our eyes". I think that's unreasonable, but you're entitled to it.
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wi7son


Joined: 11 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
Those years were better, but not necessarily good years. 2010 was the only year in his career when he was rated positively as a both a run and pass blocker. He has been rated negatively as a receiver his entire career, and as a blocker over the vast majority of his career.

You keep saying that we're making judgements based on a single game, but you have no ground to stand on with that statement so do yourself a favor and quit embarrassing yourself by repeating that sentiment.

First paragraph: so he hasn't been poor/terrible as a blocker throughout his entire career. Interesting.

Second paragraph: I based that comment on this quote:
Quote:
Because he's looked just as bad through TC and to start the season this year. He's not showing improvement- in fact, he's getting worst right before our eyes.

Your opinion here is actually based on one regular season game: after one game, you're convinced that he's getting worse "right before our eyes". I think that's unreasonable, but you're entitled to it.


TL can you clear something up for me? In you opinion do you feel Pettigrew has lived up to his draft expectations, and do you feel he has cemented himself to be our #1 TE or do you feel he fills a roll and does what is asked of him?
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DetroitPride26


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys never know though. Let's see how he does Week 2. He could have been thinking to much. This is where Calvin and Stafford step and see whats up...
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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wi7son: I don't hold "draft expectations" against any player. Considering the bust rate of 1st round picks, Pettigrew should actually be considered a pick well spent: he's a solid contributor in his clearly defined role.

If draft position is relevant, fans should think highly of Levy, a 4th round pick who - despite adversity - is a solid NFL starter. But nope: Levy gets torn apart on here, and most of the criticism is unwarranted.

Draft position is a convenient tool used selectively to add criticism to a lightning rod. Once the draft ends, the quality of the player is the only thing that matters.
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