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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
NoFlyZone wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
Superfluous wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Game Ball:

Tons of people but Kiffin gets it. The D was LIGHTS OUT.

Jockstrap:

Cally. Buddy the run pass ratio was awful. And we had TONS of missed opportunities.


Did we watch the same game?


Agreed. The defense was not lights out by any stretch of the imagination. You don't allow 450 passing yards and 4 TDs with multiple blown coverages if you're a "lights out" defense. We forced 6 turnovers, which is great, but we have a lot of improvements to make.


We are gonna give up a crap ton of yards. Its the style of defense.

We forced 6 TOs. We scored twice. Yes folks, that's lights out. Don't know how much more you could ask for.


But you're not always going to get those turnovers. The secondary simply could not win their match ups, which is weird considering how well they did against the Giant's receivers last year.


Which...is fine. But the Defense won us this game. HANDS DOWN. I will take an ugly win over a pretty loss every day of the week and twice on Sundays.


No one is denying that our defense was the reason we won the game, T_O7. What we're saying is that the unit didn't play "lights out" because of the points scored and multiple big plays given up. Yes, the Tampa 2 is predicated around being a bend-but-don't-break defense in that it gives up a lot of yards. BUT, we also gave up a ton of points. So if those turnovers weren't forced - and let's be honest, we're not going to force 6 turnovers a game - we would've lost by a pretty large margin. You don't win many games when your defense gives up 500 yards and 31 points. That still needs to improve, and there's no debate to have about it.
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flyingmonkey30


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
flyingmonkey30 wrote:
JS: Terrence Williams - The one thing I hated about him when we drafted him is that he doesn't use his hands. Still a concern for me.


The pass that bounced off of his chest (which would've been nullified due to the holding penalty, anyway) directly supports your statement. His arms extended out as far as a T-Rex's would. He really short armed that pass and made no attempt to grab it. He much prefers to wait for the ball to hit him so he can catch it with his body.


That is the one that sticks out the most, for sure. I was yelling at the TV (as usual) that he wasn't catching the ball with his hands. Then my roommate and his friends (all Giants fans) were laughing because they thought that wasn't a thing. Of course you catch the ball with your hands. One would think, at least...
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retrolock


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
NoFlyZone wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
Superfluous wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Game Ball:

Tons of people but Kiffin gets it. The D was LIGHTS OUT.

Jockstrap:

Cally. Buddy the run pass ratio was awful. And we had TONS of missed opportunities.


Did we watch the same game?


Agreed. The defense was not lights out by any stretch of the imagination. You don't allow 450 passing yards and 4 TDs with multiple blown coverages if you're a "lights out" defense. We forced 6 turnovers, which is great, but we have a lot of improvements to make.


We are gonna give up a crap ton of yards. Its the style of defense.

We forced 6 TOs. We scored twice. Yes folks, that's lights out. Don't know how much more you could ask for.


But you're not always going to get those turnovers. The secondary simply could not win their match ups, which is weird considering how well they did against the Giant's receivers last year.


Which...is fine. But the Defense won us this game. HANDS DOWN. I will take an ugly win over a pretty loss every day of the week and twice on Sundays.


No one is denying that our defense was the reason we won the game, T_O7. What we're saying is that the unit didn't play "lights out" because of the points scored and multiple big plays given up. Yes, the Tampa 2 is predicated around being a bend-but-don't-break defense in that it gives up a lot of yards. BUT, we also gave up a ton of points. So if those turnovers weren't forced - and let's be honest, we're not going to force 6 turnovers a game - we would've lost by a pretty large margin. You don't win many games when your defense gives up 500 yards and 31 points. That still needs to improve, and there's no debate to have about it.


I don't know man, Cruz, Nicks and Randle are a very good trio of receivers. They're healthy and fast, look for them to tear up most teams secondary now that the Giants have no confidence in their running backs.
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PincheJimmy


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
NoFlyZone wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
Superfluous wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Game Ball:

Tons of people but Kiffin gets it. The D was LIGHTS OUT.

Jockstrap:

Cally. Buddy the run pass ratio was awful. And we had TONS of missed opportunities.


Did we watch the same game?


Agreed. The defense was not lights out by any stretch of the imagination. You don't allow 450 passing yards and 4 TDs with multiple blown coverages if you're a "lights out" defense. We forced 6 turnovers, which is great, but we have a lot of improvements to make.


We are gonna give up a crap ton of yards. Its the style of defense.

We forced 6 TOs. We scored twice. Yes folks, that's lights out. Don't know how much more you could ask for.


But you're not always going to get those turnovers. The secondary simply could not win their match ups, which is weird considering how well they did against the Giant's receivers last year.


Which...is fine. But the Defense won us this game. HANDS DOWN. I will take an ugly win over a pretty loss every day of the week and twice on Sundays.


No one is denying that our defense was the reason we won the game, T_O7. What we're saying is that the unit didn't play "lights out" because of the points scored and multiple big plays given up. Yes, the Tampa 2 is predicated around being a bend-but-don't-break defense in that it gives up a lot of yards. BUT, we also gave up a ton of points. So if those turnovers weren't forced - and let's be honest, we're not going to force 6 turnovers a game - we would've lost by a pretty large margin. You don't win many games when your defense gives up 500 yards and 31 points. That still needs to improve, and there's no debate to have about it.


Well, since we are being honest, Dez is not gonna have many 4 rec
For 22 yards nites. So while we
Won't see too many 6 turnovers , we will see some
Games where Dez goes off and this offense will be more effective . It's the Giants, it's always a crazy game. I seriously doubt the gave up that's my yards every week. Good win for the Cowboys
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PincheJimmy wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
NoFlyZone wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
Superfluous wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Game Ball:

Tons of people but Kiffin gets it. The D was LIGHTS OUT.

Jockstrap:

Cally. Buddy the run pass ratio was awful. And we had TONS of missed opportunities.


Did we watch the same game?


Agreed. The defense was not lights out by any stretch of the imagination. You don't allow 450 passing yards and 4 TDs with multiple blown coverages if you're a "lights out" defense. We forced 6 turnovers, which is great, but we have a lot of improvements to make.


We are gonna give up a crap ton of yards. Its the style of defense.

We forced 6 TOs. We scored twice. Yes folks, that's lights out. Don't know how much more you could ask for.


But you're not always going to get those turnovers. The secondary simply could not win their match ups, which is weird considering how well they did against the Giant's receivers last year.


Which...is fine. But the Defense won us this game. HANDS DOWN. I will take an ugly win over a pretty loss every day of the week and twice on Sundays.


No one is denying that our defense was the reason we won the game, T_O7. What we're saying is that the unit didn't play "lights out" because of the points scored and multiple big plays given up. Yes, the Tampa 2 is predicated around being a bend-but-don't-break defense in that it gives up a lot of yards. BUT, we also gave up a ton of points. So if those turnovers weren't forced - and let's be honest, we're not going to force 6 turnovers a game - we would've lost by a pretty large margin. You don't win many games when your defense gives up 500 yards and 31 points. That still needs to improve, and there's no debate to have about it.


Well, since we are being honest, Dez is not gonna have many 4 rec
For 22 yards nites. So while we
Won't see too many 6 turnovers , we will see some
Games where Dez goes off and this offense will be more effective . It's the Giants, it's always a crazy game. I seriously doubt the gave up that's my yards every week. Good win for the Cowboys


Agreed on all accounts. And I'll take a goofy win over a clean loss every time.
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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, given that this is the GameBall for this game, this crap about the unlikelihood of sustaining the amount of TOs we get per game is not relevant. The defense has things to work on. Absolutely. But the Game ball is typically, at least when I give it out, to the individual or individuals who are directly responsible for the victory.

So I don't know why people are making up false debates to be had. A convo about the defense needing to improve can be had (and all aspects, really) but it seems the fact this is the GameBall thread has been missed by some.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Well, given that this is the GameBall for this game, this crap about the unlikelihood of sustaining the amount of TOs we get per game is not relevant. The defense has things to work on. Absolutely. But the Game ball is typically, at least when I give it out, to the individual or individuals who are directly responsible for the victory.

So I don't know why people are making up false debates to be had. A convo about the defense needing to improve can be had (and all aspects, really) but it seems the fact this is the GameBall thread has been missed by some.


Your statement that the defense was "lights out" was challenged, T_O7. That's not a "false debate", nor was it made up. While the defense helped us win, it still gave up 500 yards and 31 points. To claim that it was "lights out" is overstating things. The defense did what was necessary to win, but it gave up far too many big plays to be in the "lights out" discussion. That's all.
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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Well, given that this is the GameBall for this game, this crap about the unlikelihood of sustaining the amount of TOs we get per game is not relevant. The defense has things to work on. Absolutely. But the Game ball is typically, at least when I give it out, to the individual or individuals who are directly responsible for the victory.

So I don't know why people are making up false debates to be had. A convo about the defense needing to improve can be had (and all aspects, really) but it seems the fact this is the GameBall thread has been missed by some.


Your statement that the defense was "lights out" was challenged, T_O7. That's not a "false debate", nor was it made up. While the defense helped us win, it still gave up 500 yards and 31 points. To claim that it was "lights out" is overstating things. The defense did what was necessary to win, but it gave up far too many big plays to be in the "lights out" discussion. That's all.


You are arguing semantics now. And we disagree.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

George Selvie - by far the biggest surprise last night
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PincheJimmy


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Well, given that this is the GameBall for this game, this crap about the unlikelihood of sustaining the amount of TOs we get per game is not relevant. The defense has things to work on. Absolutely. But the Game ball is typically, at least when I give it out, to the individual or individuals who are directly responsible for the victory.

So I don't know why people are making up false debates to be had. A convo about the defense needing to improve can be had (and all aspects, really) but it seems the fact this is the GameBall thread has been missed by some.


Your statement that the defense was "lights out" was challenged, T_O7. That's not a "false debate", nor was it made up. While the defense helped us win, it still gave up 500 yards and 31 points. To claim that it was "lights out" is overstating things. The defense did what was necessary to win, but it gave up far too many big plays to be in the "lights out" discussion. That's all.


You are arguing semantics now. And we disagree.



I can see it both ways buts I side with Plan ( ugh) on this one. The D didnt play lights out BUT they did come up with a big play at a crucial time and that is something we did not see last season, this was the type of game the Cowboys would lose before. Hell, the Bills almost beat the Pats. Its the first week, have a coke and a smile Smile
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Well, given that this is the GameBall for this game, this crap about the unlikelihood of sustaining the amount of TOs we get per game is not relevant. The defense has things to work on. Absolutely. But the Game ball is typically, at least when I give it out, to the individual or individuals who are directly responsible for the victory.

So I don't know why people are making up false debates to be had. A convo about the defense needing to improve can be had (and all aspects, really) but it seems the fact this is the GameBall thread has been missed by some.


Your statement that the defense was "lights out" was challenged, T_O7. That's not a "false debate", nor was it made up. While the defense helped us win, it still gave up 500 yards and 31 points. To claim that it was "lights out" is overstating things. The defense did what was necessary to win, but it gave up far too many big plays to be in the "lights out" discussion. That's all.


You are arguing semantics now. And we disagree.


What's to disagree on? Did we not give up 31 points? Did we not give up multiple big pass plays which led to multiple TDs? Did Eli not throw for 450 yards? Explain to me how that is "lights out". MH mentioned the same thing in the game day thread.

T_O7, this isn't semantics. It's an issue that will need to be addressed if we expect to continue winning because forcing 6 turnovers in one game is an anomaly. We can't expect those things to happen regularly, so we need to make sure that we also won't be giving up so many yards and points regularly.
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Texas_OutLaw7


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't understand how a positive thing is an anomaly (even though we are forcing TOs in droves now carried over from Pre-Season) but the negatives are somehow going to be considered a staple.

The defense has a lot to improve on. But at one point they (the Giants) had ran 20 plays, for 50 yards and 3 TOs. Two HUGE mistakes by our safety play were really annoying but not unexpected given that this is a defensive transition and everything should not be clicking so soon. Especially given that we have injuries at such a critical position.

You are not going to get me to agree. I was shocked how disruptive our DL was. I was thrilled by the aggressiveness. They looked like Chicago's Defense going for the strip each and every play. My expectations for this defense opening night were not high, and they blew them out of the water. I am buzzing today. Very excited by what I saw.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Well, given that this is the GameBall for this game, this crap about the unlikelihood of sustaining the amount of TOs we get per game is not relevant. The defense has things to work on. Absolutely. But the Game ball is typically, at least when I give it out, to the individual or individuals who are directly responsible for the victory.

So I don't know why people are making up false debates to be had. A convo about the defense needing to improve can be had (and all aspects, really) but it seems the fact this is the GameBall thread has been missed by some.


Your statement that the defense was "lights out" was challenged, T_O7. That's not a "false debate", nor was it made up. While the defense helped us win, it still gave up 500 yards and 31 points. To claim that it was "lights out" is overstating things. The defense did what was necessary to win, but it gave up far too many big plays to be in the "lights out" discussion. That's all.


You are arguing semantics now. And we disagree.


What's to disagree on? Did we not give up 31 points? Did we not give up multiple big pass plays which led to multiple TDs? Did Eli not throw for 450 yards? Explain to me how that is "lights out". MH mentioned the same thing in the game day thread.

T_O7, this isn't semantics. It's an issue that will need to be addressed if we expect to continue winning because forcing 6 turnovers in one game is an anomaly. We can't expect those things to happen regularly, so we need to make sure that we also won't be giving up so many yards and points regularly.


Cowboys are also not going to be playing the Giants every week. The Giants have a great cast of weapons and Eli can get things done at times. Yeah the boys wont get 6 turnovers every week, but they also are not going to give up 500 yards every week either.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
I don't understand how a positive thing is an anomaly (even though we are forcing TOs in droves now carried over from Pre-Season) but the negatives are somehow going to be considered a staple.


T_O7, forcing 6 turnovers in one game is absolutely an anomaly. How often does that happen to any team?

Quote:
You are not going to get me to agree. I was shocked how disruptive our DL was. I was thrilled by the aggressiveness. They looked like Chicago's Defense going for the strip each and every play. My expectations for this defense opening night were not high, and they blew them out of the water. I am buzzing today. Very excited by what I saw.


You're not going to agree that forcing 6 turnovers is an anomaly, and you aren't going to agree that the defense giving up 500 yards and 31 points isn't "lights out"? What world do you live in? Seriously, if that happened to any other defense in the league you'd say that team was lucky to win because of how many points it gave up relative to the turnovers it forced. You wouldn't say that it played "lights out". T_O7, you're drinking the Kool-Aid. Look, we're all thrilled that we won, but we were not "lights out" last night. Not remotely close. If we forced 6 turovers and held the Giants to 10 points, then I'd be 100% on board with you. But 31 is a lot more than 10, especially since they were still in the game up until the very end.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Justin Hoover82 wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
Texas_OutLaw7 wrote:
Well, given that this is the GameBall for this game, this crap about the unlikelihood of sustaining the amount of TOs we get per game is not relevant. The defense has things to work on. Absolutely. But the Game ball is typically, at least when I give it out, to the individual or individuals who are directly responsible for the victory.

So I don't know why people are making up false debates to be had. A convo about the defense needing to improve can be had (and all aspects, really) but it seems the fact this is the GameBall thread has been missed by some.


Your statement that the defense was "lights out" was challenged, T_O7. That's not a "false debate", nor was it made up. While the defense helped us win, it still gave up 500 yards and 31 points. To claim that it was "lights out" is overstating things. The defense did what was necessary to win, but it gave up far too many big plays to be in the "lights out" discussion. That's all.


You are arguing semantics now. And we disagree.


What's to disagree on? Did we not give up 31 points? Did we not give up multiple big pass plays which led to multiple TDs? Did Eli not throw for 450 yards? Explain to me how that is "lights out". MH mentioned the same thing in the game day thread.

T_O7, this isn't semantics. It's an issue that will need to be addressed if we expect to continue winning because forcing 6 turnovers in one game is an anomaly. We can't expect those things to happen regularly, so we need to make sure that we also won't be giving up so many yards and points regularly.


Cowboys are also not going to be playing the Giants every week. The Giants have a great cast of weapons and Eli can get things done at times. Yeah the boys wont get 6 turnovers every week, but they also are not going to give up 500 yards every week either.


I'm not disagreeing with that, Justin. All I'm saying is that given all of the variables: 6 turnovers, 50 rushing yards, 450 passing yards, 4 passing TDs, and 31 total points give up, that isn't lights out play.

To put it bluntly, the Giants would've beaten us had Eli not thrown that last INT. In other words, even with our defense forcing 5 turnovers, we still would've lost had that last defensive TD not happened. Why isn't that resonating with anyone?
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