Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Campbell time?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
 
Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Cleveland Browns
View previous topic :: View next topic  

Who should start next week?
Weeden
78%
 78%  [ 26 ]
Campbell
12%
 12%  [ 4 ]
Hornby (since no poll is complete with out him)
9%
 9%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 33

Author Message
H2ThaIzzo


Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 4167
Location: Ohio
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entropy wrote:
H2ThaIzzo wrote:
Entropy wrote:
H2ThaIzzo wrote:
Entropy wrote:
H2ThaIzzo wrote:
Entropy wrote:
H2ThaIzzo wrote:
Seeing this back and fourth is almost as painful as watching the game was today. it was a bad pass. not only was it behind Cameron, but it was thrown hard, like all Weeden passes are, which makes it quite possibly the most difficult of passes to catch. We would have been better off had he not gotten his hands on it at all, but he made a nice attempt to make a big play.


Ok, then there are a lot of 'bad passes' caught in the NFL today.


At least you've now admitted it was a bad pass. Weeden locates that ball in a better spot and Cameron makes the expected play.

You have watched baseball, I assume? An error isn't recorded every single time a players glove gets to the ball but the play isn't made. There are certain times where a play is just that difficult to make that the guy isn't recorded as botching the play. This is one of those times.

It wasn't a difficult throw to make. Its funny that you've spent the last couple of hours debating that an NFL receiver should be able most times to make that catch, When I think the top 32 NFL QB's should throw a pass much better than that one was thrown.


At least I admitted what? That that pass is caught often? Well, if that's true, how is that a 'bad pass'?

If a pass is unable to be caught by most NFL receivers, there would be no disputing that it was a bad pass.

I have typed several times now that I believe that pass to be similar to the passes that are caught rather often by NFL receivers. Neither you nor anyone has disputed that.

And all QBs throw passes like that. That was what I said, that was the point--that is what you and others are ignoring to justify blind hatred of Weeden.

Also, where was the defender on that play? Go back and look, the ball should have been thrown slightly behind--or it wasn't going anywhere anyway.

Please don't respond unless you have something to add that hasn't been said already--like you disagree that similar passes are caught rather often.


lol. when all else fails, lets fall back to the "hatred of Weeden" argument. If you read my initial post in regards to his performance, I was actually pretty fair towards him.

The difference between you and the rest of us is you're trying to turn opinions into facts, and you're getting your panties in a bunch when we don't agree with you. It's actually rather amusing.

Oh, Calvin Johnson dropped a routine ball today that would have been a touchdown. Receivers just can't do that right? They should cut his [inappropriate/removed].


It's opinion that receivers catch similar balls to that rather often?

I think you're mistaken.

The opinion is that the ball was a 'bad pass' by Weeden. However, I am asking why a ball that is caught rather often is a bad pass.

lol. Calvin Johnson was not criticized for throwing a bad pass to himself.

In several hours that was all you think up? How amusing.


Note the bolded. you claim that it's a pass that's caught rather often, and you also claimed before that you saw several today alone like that. Well name some for us. Then go ahead and tell us exactly how many were caught compared to dropped in that same scenario. I mean you said yourself it happens fairly often, so lets hear these examples. Hell I already gave you a specific one of arguably the best WR in the game dropping a routine TD pass, which you laughed off. [/i]


What exactly does a WR dropping a TD pass that you think is 'routine' have to do with what we're talking about?

And I saw several passes that were slightly behind the receiver that were caught--perhaps you can tell me which balls that a receiver got his hands on, but were incomplete passes--were 'bad passes' by the QB. I mean, you say it's easy to find them right?


Actually I didn't say that. You won't see one time where I say that the same exact pass that resulted in an INT that you can't get away from tonight. I watched a lot of football, and I couldn't find a single play where the receiver had to stretch full out, full reach, for a pass thrown like a rocket behind them, where they came down with the catch. The fact that you're throwing terms like "slightly behind the receiver" make it impossible to debate with you over this. I bet if you took the top 15 pass catchers in the game, and gave them that exact play, that only 3-5 of them complete the catch. Of course, the scary part about this is that 1/5 or 1/3 to you is likely going to be considered "often".
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
dawgdish


Joined: 20 Jan 2005
Posts: 2344
Location: Brooklyn, NY
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The jury is still out on Weeden in my book, but 2 of his picks were on the receivers and the other one was just as much on the o-line. In fact, I haven't seen as pathetic of an o-line performance since the Tim Couch game. This loss isn't on Weeden and it would be stupid to give up on him & put in Campbell.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
H2ThaIzzo


Joined: 15 Jan 2009
Posts: 4167
Location: Ohio
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entropy wrote:
H2ThaIzzo wrote:
Entropy wrote:
bruceb wrote:
Entropy wrote:
H2ThaIzzo wrote:
Entropy wrote:
H2ThaIzzo wrote:
Seeing this back and fourth is almost as painful as watching the game was today. it was a bad pass. not only was it behind Cameron, but it was thrown hard, like all Weeden passes are, which makes it quite possibly the most difficult of passes to catch. We would have been better off had he not gotten his hands on it at all, but he made a nice attempt to make a big play.


Ok, then there are a lot of 'bad passes' caught in the NFL today.


At least you've now admitted it was a bad pass. Weeden locates that ball in a better spot and Cameron makes the expected play.

You have watched baseball, I assume? An error isn't recorded every single time a players glove gets to the ball but the play isn't made. There are certain times where a play is just that difficult to make that the guy isn't recorded as botching the play. This is one of those times.

It wasn't a difficult throw to make. Its funny that you've spent the last couple of hours debating that an NFL receiver should be able most times to make that catch, When I think the top 32 NFL QB's should throw a pass much better than that one was thrown.


At least I admitted what? That that pass is caught often? Well, if that's true, how is that a 'bad pass'?

If a pass is unable to be caught by most NFL receivers, there would be no disputing that it was a bad pass.

I have typed several times now that I believe that pass to be similar to the passes that are caught rather often by NFL receivers. Neither you nor anyone has disputed that.

And all QBs throw passes like that. That was what I said, that was the point--that is what you and others are ignoring to justify blind hatred of Weeden.

Also, where was the defender on that play? Go back and look, the ball should have been thrown slightly behind--or it wasn't going anywhere anyway.

Please don't respond unless you have something to add that hasn't been said already--like you disagree that similar passes are caught rather often.


The pass was uncatchable unless the receiver had fingers 12"+ long and lots of stickum on 'em. Let it go, Entropy.


You're exaggerating again bruce...now let it go.

All the passes Weeden made today and the Haters pick this one to represent the justification of their ire--unreal


for real? mostof us gave him a pass on the other two interceptions. we blame him for the majority of one, and we're now dubbed "haters".


bruce didn't give him a pass on anything.


Here we go again. I say most, you point out one.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Posts: 2736
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

H2ThaIzzo wrote:
Entropy wrote:
H2ThaIzzo wrote:
Entropy wrote:
bruceb wrote:
Entropy wrote:
H2ThaIzzo wrote:
Entropy wrote:
H2ThaIzzo wrote:
Seeing this back and fourth is almost as painful as watching the game was today. it was a bad pass. not only was it behind Cameron, but it was thrown hard, like all Weeden passes are, which makes it quite possibly the most difficult of passes to catch. We would have been better off had he not gotten his hands on it at all, but he made a nice attempt to make a big play.


Ok, then there are a lot of 'bad passes' caught in the NFL today.


At least you've now admitted it was a bad pass. Weeden locates that ball in a better spot and Cameron makes the expected play.

You have watched baseball, I assume? An error isn't recorded every single time a players glove gets to the ball but the play isn't made. There are certain times where a play is just that difficult to make that the guy isn't recorded as botching the play. This is one of those times.

It wasn't a difficult throw to make. Its funny that you've spent the last couple of hours debating that an NFL receiver should be able most times to make that catch, When I think the top 32 NFL QB's should throw a pass much better than that one was thrown.


At least I admitted what? That that pass is caught often? Well, if that's true, how is that a 'bad pass'?

If a pass is unable to be caught by most NFL receivers, there would be no disputing that it was a bad pass.

I have typed several times now that I believe that pass to be similar to the passes that are caught rather often by NFL receivers. Neither you nor anyone has disputed that.

And all QBs throw passes like that. That was what I said, that was the point--that is what you and others are ignoring to justify blind hatred of Weeden.

Also, where was the defender on that play? Go back and look, the ball should have been thrown slightly behind--or it wasn't going anywhere anyway.

Please don't respond unless you have something to add that hasn't been said already--like you disagree that similar passes are caught rather often.


The pass was uncatchable unless the receiver had fingers 12"+ long and lots of stickum on 'em. Let it go, Entropy.


You're exaggerating again bruce...now let it go.

All the passes Weeden made today and the Haters pick this one to represent the justification of their ire--unreal


for real? mostof us gave him a pass on the other two interceptions. we blame him for the majority of one, and we're now dubbed "haters".


bruce didn't give him a pass on anything.


Here we go again. I say most, you point out one.


I was talking to bruce in the post you quoted.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Posts: 2736
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

H2ThaIzzo wrote:


Actually I didn't say that. You won't see one time where I say that the same exact pass that resulted in an INT that you can't get away from tonight. I watched a lot of football, and I couldn't find a single play where the receiver had to stretch full out, full reach, for a pass thrown like a rocket behind them, where they came down with the catch. The fact that you're throwing terms like "slightly behind the receiver" make it impossible to debate with you over this. I bet if you took the top 15 pass catchers in the game, and gave them that exact play, that only 3-5 of them complete the catch. Of course, the scary part about this is that 1/5 or 1/3 to you is likely going to be considered "often".


The issue is that you don't really know Cam's responsibility on the play AND he didn't have to stretch out--that's a lie.

The pass was right above his left shoulder--which is just a bit behind. Watch the replay on NFL.com--keep your eyes on Cam the whole time, ask yourself why he didn't catch that.

If you pause while the ball is in the air--you would expect it to be a completed pass all the way until it dings off of Cam's hand.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bruceb


Joined: 15 Dec 2006
Posts: 7033
Location: Rocky River, OH
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entropy wrote:
H2ThaIzzo wrote:
Entropy wrote:
bruceb wrote:
Entropy wrote:
H2ThaIzzo wrote:
Entropy wrote:
H2ThaIzzo wrote:
Seeing this back and fourth is almost as painful as watching the game was today. it was a bad pass. not only was it behind Cameron, but it was thrown hard, like all Weeden passes are, which makes it quite possibly the most difficult of passes to catch. We would have been better off had he not gotten his hands on it at all, but he made a nice attempt to make a big play.


Ok, then there are a lot of 'bad passes' caught in the NFL today.


At least you've now admitted it was a bad pass. Weeden locates that ball in a better spot and Cameron makes the expected play.

You have watched baseball, I assume? An error isn't recorded every single time a players glove gets to the ball but the play isn't made. There are certain times where a play is just that difficult to make that the guy isn't recorded as botching the play. This is one of those times.

It wasn't a difficult throw to make. Its funny that you've spent the last couple of hours debating that an NFL receiver should be able most times to make that catch, When I think the top 32 NFL QB's should throw a pass much better than that one was thrown.


At least I admitted what? That that pass is caught often? Well, if that's true, how is that a 'bad pass'?

If a pass is unable to be caught by most NFL receivers, there would be no disputing that it was a bad pass.

I have typed several times now that I believe that pass to be similar to the passes that are caught rather often by NFL receivers. Neither you nor anyone has disputed that.

And all QBs throw passes like that. That was what I said, that was the point--that is what you and others are ignoring to justify blind hatred of Weeden.

Also, where was the defender on that play? Go back and look, the ball should have been thrown slightly behind--or it wasn't going anywhere anyway.

Please don't respond unless you have something to add that hasn't been said already--like you disagree that similar passes are caught rather often.


The pass was uncatchable unless the receiver had fingers 12"+ long and lots of stickum on 'em. Let it go, Entropy.


You're exaggerating again bruce...now let it go.

All the passes Weeden made today and the Haters pick this one to represent the justification of their ire--unreal


for real? most of us gave him a pass on the other two interceptions. we blame him for the majority of one, and we're now dubbed "haters".


bruce didn't give him a pass on anything.


Huh? Now you are resorting to blatant misrepresentation, disparagement and lies? Using my name in vain so as to give automatic credence to your woefully invalid argument(s). Oh, the shame of it!
_________________
Everything happens exactly the way it is supposed to happen...otherwise, it would happen some other way
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Mastercheddaar


Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 5023
Location: Northeast Ohio.. Obviously
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:49 pm    Post subject: hmmm Reply with quote

You keep Weeden. He had plenty of drive and fire. Plus his WRs did him no favors fighting for the balls or trying to catch them.


that is all

Mastercheddaar
_________________
For those that don't know:
NFL - AFC Browns, NFC Eagles
Basket Ball - Cavs
Baseball - Indians/Yankees.
CF - Ohio State and Wake Forest
Women - Brunettes with Blue eyes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hornbybrown


Joined: 25 Jan 2008
Posts: 16107
Location: 1600 Pennyslvania Ave
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep Weeden. Put Cousins down like you would a broken race horse. He is only good for dog food.
_________________


Adopt a Brown 2014
Miles Austin 16 Recs 169 Yds 2 TD's
Pierre Desir
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
freakygeniuskid


Moderator
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 5475
Location: Charlotte, NC
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hornbybrown wrote:
Keep Weeden. Put Cousins down like you would a broken race horse. He is only good for dog food.


Agreed. There were some bad performances in this game but it's partially on injuries (Pinkston/Lauvao) partially on the coaching staff (not signing Tebow to play RG instead of Cousins, I mean come on, who doesn't think Tebow could do better?) and partially on the FO (In a CB saturated market where very good corners were getting 2-3M a year they decided it would be a good idea to single in on one guy and wait for him so long that they missed out on everyone decent).

I don't like Weeden, never really have, but this game isn't a reason to dump him, not by itself.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
clubberlang


Joined: 04 Dec 2011
Posts: 143
Location: OH10
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No way would I pull weeden after one game. He didn't play good but neither did the offense as a whole. The right side of our line was bad. Cousins is just down right horrible. The first int didn't turn out too bad. Was probably better than what a punt would have netted us. The 2nd was all on little. The third was more on weeden for being high amd behind. Hard play for cameron to make.

I just don't see the point of going to campbell. The front office needs to see if weeden can be a viable nfl qb.lets wait to see what happens when gordon gets back. Overall the entire offense needs to improve. Wr, line play and qb.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
big poppa pump


Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Posts: 1871
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we need to see a full season before we cut ties with Weeden. I think that's what is going to end up happening.

I love the way he "guns" the ball, but here are things that I can't ignore.

He takes too long to make his reads.
He still stares down his receivers.
He lacks "touch."
He is not as accurate as he should be.
He does not look comfortable in the pocket. (especially under pressure)

Watching the Pack/49ers game reminded me of what a REAL football team and QB should look like.

The coaching staff didn't do Weeden any favors with slowing down the pass rush in the second half. Have they never heard of a slant or a quick out? I think he would of benefited from a 3 step drop and quick passes.
_________________

BIG UPS TO REG....DA MAN
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
buno67


Joined: 15 Mar 2007
Posts: 31614
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big poppa pump wrote:
I think we need to see a full season before we cut ties with Weeden. I think that's what is going to end up happening.

I love the way he "guns" the ball, but here are things that I can't ignore.

He takes too long to make his reads.
He still stares down his receivers.
He lacks "touch."
He is not as accurate as he should be.
He does not look comfortable in the pocket. (especially under pressure)

Watching the Pack/49ers game reminded me of what a REAL football team and QB should look like.

The coaching staff didn't do Weeden any favors with slowing down the pass rush in the second half. Have they never heard of a slant or a quick out? I think he would of benefited from a 3 step drop and quick passes.


you look at the SF GB game, you see completely healthy teams. Kaep has arguably the best offensive line the the league.You dont see him get rattle because defenses rarely get to him to rattle him. There is a reason Smith was looking damn good there because they got their OL act together. Yesterday Weeden started off pretty good in the pocket but once he started to get hit and pressured play after play he started to lose his composer but can you blame him, he got hurried and knocked down on like 75% of his passes.

One thing hurting his reads was no WRs getting open. In the preseason Weeden had Josh Gordan who was able to open up the passing game cause safeties had to play the deep ball. Yesterday there was no threat of the deep pass. So safeties were able to play a shorter zone. Bess and Little are not burners so the safeties and DBs were able to cover them better. Weeden didnt try to force passes but he held onto the ball longer waiting for someone to get open. The only player who would get open was cameron but thats because he was going against LBs.

I rather have a QB who throws it too harder then not hard enough. We have had 3 strong armed QBs since the Browns have been back. Couch, DA, and Weeden. His Cameron TD pass to me showed the perfect amount of touch. He threw it at the perfect level where Cameron was the only one who could of caught that. I like it that he drives the ball in on those slants. One it makes it harder for a DB to jump a slant and with how hard he drives it a DB might not be able to pick it off if they jump the route.

I also say Weeden doesnt stare the WRs down that much. He threw a lot of slants and a Miami DB never jumped the routes.
_________________
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
MalcolmBrown


Joined: 26 Jul 2011
Posts: 671
Location: 2014 Adopt a Brownie: Jim Dray: 10 Receptions, 144 Yards (14.4 ypc), 1 TD, 8 FD
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All I know is the OP never posted again in this thread, meaning he didn't really want to know your opinion, he just wanted to start a fire, aka you've been trolled.

I watched the pass, I think Cameron needs to decide if he's going all out as a football player or not. I don't think getting his head around sooner would have made a difference, he saw it the whole way. Was the pass uncatchable? Certainly not. Was it going to be a difficult catch to make? Yes, that ball was coming in pretty quick. But this is where Cameron needs to grow and know that not every ball is going to be right on the spot. If he decides the ball is more important than the route he is running, then I think he leaves his feet and he gets his body turned enough to get a second hand up for the ball. Come down in a fall with the ball like he does in the end zone. A la Antonio Gates. He's gotta treat the passes like olley oops.

Obviously a better pass would have made it easier, but I feel Cameron should have made the adjustment for the pass. That will be something to watch. Obviously Weeden likes Cameron as a target, and Gordon on the field will help take the pressure off the rest of the O anyway. But it was a missed opportunity no matter who you blame.
_________________
"You mean...this ain't Malcolm Browns car...? ...Damn...my bad..."

Athens, Ohio AKA South Cleveland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MalcolmBrown


Joined: 26 Jul 2011
Posts: 671
Location: 2014 Adopt a Brownie: Jim Dray: 10 Receptions, 144 Yards (14.4 ypc), 1 TD, 8 FD
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, I think the OP should go DIAF. I hate that they made this thread and that we're now 8 pages in of arguing about it.
_________________
"You mean...this ain't Malcolm Browns car...? ...Damn...my bad..."

Athens, Ohio AKA South Cleveland
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dawgpoun8017


Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 12340
Location: Waterloo,NY
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MalcolmBrown wrote:
Also, I think the OP should go DIAF. I hate that they made this thread and that we're now 8 pages in of arguing about it.


Preach brother
_________________
2013 Joe Blackburn HOF Award Recipient
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> Cleveland Browns All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
Page 8 of 9

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group