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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 11912
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chali21 wrote:
Honestly I'm not for the picking a WR in FA I mean the top WRs next year are Nicks, Maclin, and Britt. And none of those guys are true WRs.none of those guys would command double teams.

Okay heres some devils advocate: Say we go 6-10 and out of the Clowny sweepstakes.What would you say to taking a wr in the first?


We try to sign a DE (Johnson if he isn't resigned) and a guard in FA. We have the money so why not? This completes both our lines and all we have to do is add a playmaker, who really improves the offense.


I agree w/ those WRs. None of them are what everyone here is describing as what we need. They're glorified number 2 guys at best. If there's no AJ Green, Calvin Johnson etc in the draft, I don't want to get one of them in the first.

Trenches, trenches, trenches.

I doubt Michael Johnson leaves the Bengals. He's a starter on the best defensive line in football. Unless he's all about money, I don't see him going anywhere.
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dante9876


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
Honestly I'm not for the picking a WR in FA I mean the top WRs next year are Nicks, Maclin, and Britt. And none of those guys are true WRs.none of those guys would command double teams.

Okay heres some devils advocate: Say we go 6-10 and out of the Clowny sweepstakes.What would you say to taking a wr in the first?


We try to sign a DE (Johnson if he isn't resigned) and a guard in FA. We have the money so why not? This completes both our lines and all we have to do is add a playmaker, who really improves the offense.


I agree w/ those WRs. None of them are what everyone here is describing as what we need. They're glorified number 2 guys at best. If there's no AJ Green, Calvin Johnson etc in the draft, I don't want to get one of them in the first.

Trenches, trenches, trenches.

I doubt Michael Johnson leaves the Bengals. He's a starter on the best defensive line in football. Unless he's all about money, I don't see him going anywhere.


No way Bengal can afford him with aj green and dalton extensions coming up. I think he is gone unless he takes a very very team friendly deal. Question is will he come here or not and how much do we have to over pay for him to come here.
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DirtyHarry


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
Honestly I'm not for the picking a WR in FA I mean the top WRs next year are Nicks, Maclin, and Britt. And none of those guys are true WRs.none of those guys would command double teams.

Okay heres some devils advocate: Say we go 6-10 and out of the Clowny sweepstakes.What would you say to taking a wr in the first?


We try to sign a DE (Johnson if he isn't resigned) and a guard in FA. We have the money so why not? This completes both our lines and all we have to do is add a playmaker, who really improves the offense.


I agree w/ those WRs. None of them are what everyone here is describing as what we need. They're glorified number 2 guys at best. If there's no AJ Green, Calvin Johnson etc in the draft, I don't want to get one of them in the first.

Trenches, trenches, trenches.

I doubt Michael Johnson leaves the Bengals. He's a starter on the best defensive line in football. Unless he's all about money, I don't see him going anywhere.


No way Bengal can afford him with aj green and dalton extensions coming up. I think he is gone unless he takes a very very team friendly deal. Question is will he come here or not and how much do we have to over pay for him to come here.

Maybe Pat Sims can recruit him assuming he's brought back which I think he will
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
Honestly I'm not for the picking a WR in FA I mean the top WRs next year are Nicks, Maclin, and Britt. And none of those guys are true WRs.none of those guys would command double teams.

Okay heres some devils advocate: Say we go 6-10 and out of the Clowny sweepstakes.What would you say to taking a wr in the first?


We try to sign a DE (Johnson if he isn't resigned) and a guard in FA. We have the money so why not? This completes both our lines and all we have to do is add a playmaker, who really improves the offense.


I agree w/ those WRs. None of them are what everyone here is describing as what we need. They're glorified number 2 guys at best. If there's no AJ Green, Calvin Johnson etc in the draft, I don't want to get one of them in the first.

Trenches, trenches, trenches.

I doubt Michael Johnson leaves the Bengals. He's a starter on the best defensive line in football. Unless he's all about money, I don't see him going anywhere.


Which is why I advocate drafting a WR and growing him in your system.

Unless you are getting an elite WR, it's a risky bet on another teams system #1 guy.

And I disagree w/ your earlier post. I don't think Moore and Ford are anything other than role players. Heck, Ford has shown nothing since his rookie season. Moore is just starting to find his stride.

I can't remember the Raiders having a true difference maker on the offensive side of the ball in since 2002. You have to have some sort of threat. Something to keep defenses honest. And I will agree that QB would be great start. A franchise QB can elevate the play of others. But where is that guy right now?

I agree about the trenches. Mainly the Oline. But there is FA to fix that. My big board (1st round) would look like this right now:

Pass rusher
Interior Oline
DT
WR
QB
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 11912
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dante9876 wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
Honestly I'm not for the picking a WR in FA I mean the top WRs next year are Nicks, Maclin, and Britt. And none of those guys are true WRs.none of those guys would command double teams.

Okay heres some devils advocate: Say we go 6-10 and out of the Clowny sweepstakes.What would you say to taking a wr in the first?


We try to sign a DE (Johnson if he isn't resigned) and a guard in FA. We have the money so why not? This completes both our lines and all we have to do is add a playmaker, who really improves the offense.


I agree w/ those WRs. None of them are what everyone here is describing as what we need. They're glorified number 2 guys at best. If there's no AJ Green, Calvin Johnson etc in the draft, I don't want to get one of them in the first.

Trenches, trenches, trenches.

I doubt Michael Johnson leaves the Bengals. He's a starter on the best defensive line in football. Unless he's all about money, I don't see him going anywhere.


No way Bengal can afford him with aj green and dalton extensions coming up. I think he is gone unless he takes a very very team friendly deal. Question is will he come here or not and how much do we have to over pay for him to come here.


Well, I know these players (according to them) love playing in Cinci. The three could put their heads together (and everyone else for that matter) and take slight cuts to keep one-another together. Dalton isn't going to be paid like Matt Ryan or Joe Flacco anyway. It most certainly is possible but we know better than to assume what players are thinking when contracts are involved.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Chali21 wrote:
Honestly I'm not for the picking a WR in FA I mean the top WRs next year are Nicks, Maclin, and Britt. And none of those guys are true WRs.none of those guys would command double teams.

Okay heres some devils advocate: Say we go 6-10 and out of the Clowny sweepstakes.What would you say to taking a wr in the first?


We try to sign a DE (Johnson if he isn't resigned) and a guard in FA. We have the money so why not? This completes both our lines and all we have to do is add a playmaker, who really improves the offense.


I agree w/ those WRs. None of them are what everyone here is describing as what we need. They're glorified number 2 guys at best. If there's no AJ Green, Calvin Johnson etc in the draft, I don't want to get one of them in the first.

Trenches, trenches, trenches.

I doubt Michael Johnson leaves the Bengals. He's a starter on the best defensive line in football. Unless he's all about money, I don't see him going anywhere.


Which is why I advocate drafting a WR and growing him in your system.

Unless you are getting an elite WR, it's a risky bet on another teams system #1 guy.

And I disagree w/ your earlier post. I don't think Moore and Ford are anything other than role players. Heck, Ford has shown nothing since his rookie season. Moore is just starting to find his stride.

I can't remember the Raiders having a true difference maker on the offensive side of the ball in since 2002. You have to have some sort of threat. Something to keep defenses honest. And I will agree that QB would be great start. A franchise QB can elevate the play of others. But where is that guy right now?

I agree about the trenches. Mainly the Oline. But there is FA to fix that. My big board (1st round) would look like this right now:

Pass rusher
Interior Oline
DT
WR
QB


That's just the thing though, there's no AJ Green or Calvin in this draft. There's some good guys out there but they're Chad Jackson type players. I don't see enough ability to warrant being taken so high.

That QB you're speaking of could be in this draft. It is a very deep QB draft. If teams need them, expect many to be taken in the first round. Bridgewater, Hundley, Boyd, Manziel, Mariota then guys like Fales, Morris, Mettenberger, Carr, Hogan could all sneak in there. Now obviously I don't expect all these guys to come out but there is A LOT of QB talent. I'd be pissed if we skipped over them all in round one or two b/c we felt Pryor was the guy and he didn't turn out to be. We might not see another class like this in a long, long time.
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JTagg7754


Joined: 09 Nov 2010
Posts: 11912
Location: Somewhere in Ohio
PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will say this though, I've only seen the kid play twice and will see him again this weekend but if you want to be impressed w/ someone, check out the Hackenburg kid from Penn St.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=9621138

Those mechanics, that release, the arm strength, the poise..... and he's only 18.

EDIT: And yes, I am officially conducting this bandwagon. If this kid stays healthy and true to the course he's going down, watch out.
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Silver&Black88


Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not gonna lie, with all the injuries that happened this week I gotta say our bye came at the right time. Good Lord, there are so many.
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big_palooka


Joined: 30 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:

That's just the thing though, there's no AJ Green or Calvin in this draft. There's some good guys out there but they're Chad Jackson type players. I don't see enough ability to warrant being taken so high.

That QB you're speaking of could be in this draft. It is a very deep QB draft. If teams need them, expect many to be taken in the first round. Bridgewater, Hundley, Boyd, Manziel, Mariota then guys like Fales, Morris, Mettenberger, Carr, Hogan could all sneak in there. Now obviously I don't expect all these guys to come out but there is A LOT of QB talent. I'd be pissed if we skipped over them all in round one or two b/c we felt Pryor was the guy and he didn't turn out to be. We might not see another class like this in a long, long time.


Huh? I will succeed there might not me an AJ Green or Calvin type in this class, but to compare the class to Florida bust Chad Jackson? Please explain.

Mike Evans is a big, physical freak athlete in the Brandon Marshal mold.

Abbrederis, Moncrief, Matthews, Lee, Watkins, Hoffman all bring some skills to the table that could be molded into something special.

Comparing the class to Chad Jackson..... what?
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:

That's just the thing though, there's no AJ Green or Calvin in this draft. There's some good guys out there but they're Chad Jackson type players. I don't see enough ability to warrant being taken so high.

That QB you're speaking of could be in this draft. It is a very deep QB draft. If teams need them, expect many to be taken in the first round. Bridgewater, Hundley, Boyd, Manziel, Mariota then guys like Fales, Morris, Mettenberger, Carr, Hogan could all sneak in there. Now obviously I don't expect all these guys to come out but there is A LOT of QB talent. I'd be pissed if we skipped over them all in round one or two b/c we felt Pryor was the guy and he didn't turn out to be. We might not see another class like this in a long, long time.


Huh? I will succeed there might not me an AJ Green or Calvin type in this class, but to compare the class to Florida bust Chad Jackson? Please explain.

Mike Evans is a big, physical freak athlete in the Brandon Marshal mold.

Abbrederis, Moncrief, Matthews, Lee, Watkins, Hoffman all bring some skills to the table that could be molded into something special.

Comparing the class to Chad Jackson..... what?


You took the name drop too seriously. I just meant there's no top tiers WRs that stand out in this class as "sure bets" and while we're talking about taking things too literally, I know no one is a "sure bet" but there are some (CJ, Green etc) that are almost as good as you're going to get. Only very good prospects in this draft. That worries w/ me WRs b/c, like CBs, there's high bust potential and a lot of the better ones are found later. I'd rather use the pick in the trenches.
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Silver&Black88


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd rather not go WR first, but I'd have a hard time complaining about getting Evans, Watkins or Lee. Especially if we could trade down to land one of them.
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JTagg7754


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silver&Black88 wrote:
I'd rather not go WR first, but I'd have a hard time complaining about getting Evans, Watkins or Lee. Especially if we could trade down to land one of them.


Trading down would be perfectly fine and I like Evans a lot. Just not enough to warrant taking the risk on him when we don't have the right QB as of now and we don't have enough pieces on the line. Judging by where I believe we'll be picking by the time it comes around, the top rated guard should fall into our laps. Assuming their value is worth the need, get him.
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big_palooka


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JTagg7754 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
I'd rather not go WR first, but I'd have a hard time complaining about getting Evans, Watkins or Lee. Especially if we could trade down to land one of them.


Trading down would be perfectly fine and I like Evans a lot. Just not enough to warrant taking the risk on him when we don't have the right QB as of now and we don't have enough pieces on the line. Judging by where I believe we'll be picking by the time it comes around, the top rated guard should fall into our laps. Assuming their value is worth the need, get him.


Well how good can Evans be is the question? Jacksonville's QBs are awful but Blackman takes games over.

As for the Oline, it's really only a LG away from being a sound unit.

Veldher, FA signing, Wiz, Brisel, Watson/Pashos

Brisel could be upgraded, but he's playing fine. I think Pashos has a year left in him as well as Barnes as a swing tackle.
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oakdb36


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Moore stays on pace, no one will want a WR at the end of the year.
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RaiderX


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

big_palooka wrote:
JTagg7754 wrote:
Silver&Black88 wrote:
I'd rather not go WR first, but I'd have a hard time complaining about getting Evans, Watkins or Lee. Especially if we could trade down to land one of them.


Trading down would be perfectly fine and I like Evans a lot. Just not enough to warrant taking the risk on him when we don't have the right QB as of now and we don't have enough pieces on the line. Judging by where I believe we'll be picking by the time it comes around, the top rated guard should fall into our laps. Assuming their value is worth the need, get him.


Well how good can Evans be is the question? Jacksonville's QBs are awful but Blackman takes games over.

As for the Oline, it's really only a LG away from being a sound unit.

Veldher, FA signing, Wiz, Brisel, Watson/Pashos

Brisel could be upgraded, but he's playing fine. I think Pashos has a year left in him as well as Barnes as a swing tackle.


I question how good Evans can be as well. He's a big target for Manziel when he scrambles.

Still have yet to see Watson at RT. I like Pashos and Barnes as backups given what they've been asked to do this year.

Bergstrom was set to start at LG before the injury in preseason. Be interesting if the staff sticks with him and go Guard later in the draft.
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