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Your Least favorite player on the Lions
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Nnivolcm


Joined: 07 Aug 2008
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Location: Montana
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Nnivolcm wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Nnivolcm wrote:
What if he was slow, with an agility rating in the single digits, was a pedestrian blocker, fumbled the ball a lot, and had a tendency to be called for penalties at the worst possible times?

In this instance, and considering I'm looking for a player who blocks first and foremost, I'd certainly replace him with a tall, slightly faster pass-catcher, who is an even worse blocker, who has an injury history and a one game professional sample size. Why? Because that's what "winners" do.

Right winners?


You're trying to pass the Lions off as winners? That's a bit of an exaggeration. Laughing

You keep saying grew is a better blocker as if it is proven, when the only thing we know for certain is that when Fauria was given the opportunity, he blocked better than Grew did, but it was against lesser competition.

I'll take a one game sample size that shows a ton of promise over a four year sample size that showed three years of a little promise and a lot of mistakes and another year of pretty much nothing but disappointment.

Lions off as winners? No. Fans that refuse to set realistic expectations? Yes.

Fauria has shown a ton of promise as a blocker?! What?! Oh my.

I think we need to agree to disagree on this. Once you assert that Fauria has shown a "ton" of promise based on what you admitted to being an irrelevant game against lesser competition, you've certainly taken your stand.



Spin away, why let what I actually said get in the way of what you want to hear.

I didn't say he has shown a ton of promise as a blocker, I didn't limit it to that. He has shown a ton of promise as a TE though. Tight ends have two main rolls: blocking and receiving. I've already stated a couple times that I believe Fuaria's blocking is on Grew's level. That's been supported by the fact that Grew doesn't really set that high of a bar and PFF has Fauria rated higher as a blocker, albeit against lesser competition. Where Fuaria has shown the most potential is as a receiver, he catches everything thrown at him and doesn't fumble, something Grew has never accomplished in his career.
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stylish313


Joined: 17 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Nnivolcm wrote:
What if he was slow, with an agility rating in the single digits, was a pedestrian blocker, fumbled the ball a lot, and had a tendency to be called for penalties at the worst possible times?

In this instance, and considering I'm looking for a player who blocks first and foremost, I'd certainly replace him with a tall, slightly faster pass-catcher, who is an even worse blocker, who has an injury history and a one game professional sample size. Why? Because that's what "winners" do.

Right winners?
You've tried to twist justification of Pettigrew's existence every which way you could think of, and have embarrassed yourself so badly it's quite sad. Let's take this recent angle of the Lion's wanting Pettigrew for his blocking- even though we've proved he's less than mediocre at that as well (loser).

In 2012, Brandon Pettigrew was 7th amongst TEs around the league in targets. In 2011 he was 3rd. Even as a rookie he was 4th. That tells me that the Lion's both want, and need Brandon to be a receiving threat. Yet game after game he comes up short of those expectations- killing drives, turning the ball over, and losing Stafford's confidence in the process.

The Lion's wanted a dual-threat TE when they drafted Pettigrew, that's why he went in the 1st round. Pettigrew has failed to not only justify his selection, he's failing to justify his presence on the team period. He has a cap hit of $3.4M. That's money better spent elsewhere, rather than on a non factor TE who is a mediocre run and pass blocker, and a worthless receiver.
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detfan782004


Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Posts: 51555
Location: Montana
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Nnivolcm wrote:
What if he was slow, with an agility rating in the single digits, was a pedestrian blocker, fumbled the ball a lot, and had a tendency to be called for penalties at the worst possible times?

In this instance, and considering I'm looking for a player who blocks first and foremost, I'd certainly replace him with a tall, slightly faster pass-catcher, who is an even worse blocker, who has an injury history and a one game professional sample size. Why? Because that's what "winners" do.

Right winners?
You've tried to twist justification of Pettigrew's existence every which way you could think of, and have embarrassed yourself so badly it's quite sad. Let's take this recent angle of the Lion's wanting Pettigrew for his blocking- even though we've proved he's less than mediocre at that as well (loser).

In 2012, Brandon Pettigrew was 7th amongst TEs around the league in targets. In 2011 he was 3rd. Even as a rookie he was 4th. That tells me that the Lion's both want, and need Brandon to be a receiving threat. Yet game after game he comes up short of those expectations- killing drives, turning the ball over, and losing Stafford's confidence in the process.

The Lion's wanted a dual-threat TE when they drafted Pettigrew, that's why he went in the 1st round. Pettigrew has failed to not only justify his selection, he's failing to justify his presence on the team period. He has a cap hit of $3.4M. That's money better spent elsewhere, rather than on a non factor TE who is a mediocre run and pass blocker, and a worthless receiver.


I concur. It is almost worth simply taking a 7th rounder just to get the cap room to spend elsewhere.
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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Nnivolcm wrote:
What if he was slow, with an agility rating in the single digits, was a pedestrian blocker, fumbled the ball a lot, and had a tendency to be called for penalties at the worst possible times?

In this instance, and considering I'm looking for a player who blocks first and foremost, I'd certainly replace him with a tall, slightly faster pass-catcher, who is an even worse blocker, who has an injury history and a one game professional sample size. Why? Because that's what "winners" do.

Right winners?
You've tried to twist justification of Pettigrew's existence every which way you could think of, and have embarrassed yourself so badly it's quite sad. Let's take this recent angle of the Lion's wanting Pettigrew for his blocking- even though we've proved he's less than mediocre at that as well (loser).

In 2012, Brandon Pettigrew was 7th amongst TEs around the league in targets. In 2011 he was 3rd. Even as a rookie he was 4th. That tells me that the Lion's both want, and need Brandon to be a receiving threat. Yet game after game he comes up short of those expectations- killing drives, turning the ball over, and losing Stafford's confidence in the process.

The Lion's wanted a dual-threat TE when they drafted Pettigrew, that's why he went in the 1st round. Pettigrew has failed to not only justify his selection, he's failing to justify his presence on the team period. He has a cap hit of $3.4M. That's money better spent elsewhere, rather than on a non factor TE who is a mediocre run and pass blocker, and a worthless receiver.

Man. If only PFF could make arguments for you as well.

Pettigrew hasn't "proven" that he's a "less than mediocre" blocker: your subjective use of opinion-based and perspective-void stats convinced you of that. (The only sad thing in this conversation is how much you cling to PFF's numbers, when you were so against basing opinions solely on stats prior to obtaining that paid service.)

They drafted Pettigrew to be a blocker and short-yardage receiving target. He is exactly that. He drops passes at a similar rate to Jermaine Gresham, Vernon Davis and Jermichael Finley. (That's a "worthless" receiver in some pretty worthless company.) Of course, fans don't watch each snap that those teams play on a regular basis, so they wouldn't know that. Coaches know that. Organizations know that. Fans don't. It's why they call for a player like Pettigrew to be released, and why teams just laugh and shake their heads. Fans are often clueless, and situations like this prove it.
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detfan782004


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Nnivolcm wrote:
What if he was slow, with an agility rating in the single digits, was a pedestrian blocker, fumbled the ball a lot, and had a tendency to be called for penalties at the worst possible times?

In this instance, and considering I'm looking for a player who blocks first and foremost, I'd certainly replace him with a tall, slightly faster pass-catcher, who is an even worse blocker, who has an injury history and a one game professional sample size. Why? Because that's what "winners" do.

Right winners?
You've tried to twist justification of Pettigrew's existence every which way you could think of, and have embarrassed yourself so badly it's quite sad. Let's take this recent angle of the Lion's wanting Pettigrew for his blocking- even though we've proved he's less than mediocre at that as well (loser).

In 2012, Brandon Pettigrew was 7th amongst TEs around the league in targets. In 2011 he was 3rd. Even as a rookie he was 4th. That tells me that the Lion's both want, and need Brandon to be a receiving threat. Yet game after game he comes up short of those expectations- killing drives, turning the ball over, and losing Stafford's confidence in the process.

The Lion's wanted a dual-threat TE when they drafted Pettigrew, that's why he went in the 1st round. Pettigrew has failed to not only justify his selection, he's failing to justify his presence on the team period. He has a cap hit of $3.4M. That's money better spent elsewhere, rather than on a non factor TE who is a mediocre run and pass blocker, and a worthless receiver.

Man. If only PFF could make arguments for you as well.

Pettigrew hasn't "proven" that he's a "less than mediocre" blocker: your subjective use of opinion-based and perspective-void stats convinced you of that. (The only sad thing in this conversation is how much you cling to PFF's numbers, when you were so against basing opinions solely on stats prior to obtaining that paid service.)

They drafted Pettigrew to be a blocker and short-yardage receiving target. He is exactly that. He drops passes at a similar rate to Jermaine Gresham, Vernon Davis and Jermichael Finley. (That's a "worthless" receiver in some pretty worthless company.) Of course, fans don't watch each snap that those teams play on a regular basis, so they wouldn't know that. Coaches know that. Organizations know that. Fans don't. It's why they call for a player like Pettigrew to be released, and why teams just laugh and shake their heads. Fans are often clueless, and situations like this prove it.


What's to say u are not the clueless fan? At least those u are calling clueless have data proving their points and eye test backing it up
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stylish313


Joined: 17 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Nnivolcm wrote:
What if he was slow, with an agility rating in the single digits, was a pedestrian blocker, fumbled the ball a lot, and had a tendency to be called for penalties at the worst possible times?

In this instance, and considering I'm looking for a player who blocks first and foremost, I'd certainly replace him with a tall, slightly faster pass-catcher, who is an even worse blocker, who has an injury history and a one game professional sample size. Why? Because that's what "winners" do.

Right winners?
You've tried to twist justification of Pettigrew's existence every which way you could think of, and have embarrassed yourself so badly it's quite sad. Let's take this recent angle of the Lion's wanting Pettigrew for his blocking- even though we've proved he's less than mediocre at that as well (loser).

In 2012, Brandon Pettigrew was 7th amongst TEs around the league in targets. In 2011 he was 3rd. Even as a rookie he was 4th. That tells me that the Lion's both want, and need Brandon to be a receiving threat. Yet game after game he comes up short of those expectations- killing drives, turning the ball over, and losing Stafford's confidence in the process.

The Lion's wanted a dual-threat TE when they drafted Pettigrew, that's why he went in the 1st round. Pettigrew has failed to not only justify his selection, he's failing to justify his presence on the team period. He has a cap hit of $3.4M. That's money better spent elsewhere, rather than on a non factor TE who is a mediocre run and pass blocker, and a worthless receiver.

Man. If only PFF could make arguments for you as well.

Pettigrew hasn't "proven" that he's a "less than mediocre" blocker: your subjective use of opinion-based stats convinced you of that. (The only sad thing in this conversation is how much you cling to PFF's numbers, when you were so against basing opinions solely on stats prior to obtaining that paid service.)

They drafted Pettigrew to be a blocker and short-yardage receiving target. He is exactly that. He drops passes at a similar rate to Jermaine Gresham, Vernon Davis and Jermichael Finley. (That's a "worthless" receiver in some pretty worthless company.) Of course, fans don't watch each snap that those teams play on a regular basis, so they wouldn't know that. Coaches know that. Organizations know that. Fans don't. It's why they call for a player like Pettigrew to be released, and why teams just laugh and shake their heads. Fans are often clueless, and situations like this prove it.
Uh, I watch every Lion's game. Twice. Both you and I know that you weren't watching games last season, and still had the nerve to argue as if you had any ground to stand on.

I use what I see every week, plus stats from various sources. And no one on here can ever tell me I'm unable to form my own opinion. I'm one of the most opinionated members on this forum, and I go against the masses as much as anyone without care.
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TL-TwoWinsAway


Joined: 19 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
Uh, I watch every Lion's game. Twice. Both you and I know that you weren't watching games last season, and still had the nerve to argue as if you had any ground to stand on.

I use what I see every week, plus stats from various sources. And no one on here can ever tell me I'm unable to form my only opinion. I'm one of the most opinionated members on this forum, and I go against the masses as much as anyone without care.

I have every game from 2010 through 2012 saved on an external hard drive. I couldn't watch the games real time last year, but have since. And I didn't "argue as if I had any ground to stand on": I admitted that I couldn't watch the games (which is how you even knew that), but was forming opinions based on reports and stats. Sounds a lot like PFF, huh?

Sure, you form your own opinions. Pettigrew is a worthless receiver, right? (Checks numbers, uses eye test.) Nope. I'd stick to feeding off of PFF if I were you... the opinions you come up with are desperate exaggerations.
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DrRay11


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
Uh, I watch every Lion's game. Twice. Both you and I know that you weren't watching games last season, and still had the nerve to argue as if you had any ground to stand on.

I use what I see every week, plus stats from various sources. And no one on here can ever tell me I'm unable to form my only opinion. I'm one of the most opinionated members on this forum, and I go against the masses as much as anyone without care.

I have every game from 2010 through 2012 saved on an external hard drive. I couldn't watch the games real time last year, but have since. And I didn't "argue as if I had any ground to stand on": I admitted that I couldn't watch the games (which is how you even knew that), but was forming opinions based on reports and stats. Sounds a lot like PFF, huh?

Sure, you form your own opinions. Pettigrew is a worthless receiver, right? (Checks numbers, uses eye test.) Nope. I'd stick to feeding off of PFF if I were you... the opinions you come up with are desperate exaggerations.


Just about everyone in the forum is saying Pettigrew is a worthless receiver. Are all of our opinions desperate exaggerations?
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stylish313


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
Uh, I watch every Lion's game. Twice. Both you and I know that you weren't watching games last season, and still had the nerve to argue as if you had any ground to stand on.

I use what I see every week, plus stats from various sources. And no one on here can ever tell me I'm unable to form my only opinion. I'm one of the most opinionated members on this forum, and I go against the masses as much as anyone without care.

I have every game from 2010 through 2012 saved on an external hard drive. I couldn't watch the games real time last year, but have since. And I didn't "argue as if I had any ground to stand on": I admitted that I couldn't watch the games (which is how you even knew that), but was forming opinions based on reports and stats. Sounds a lot like PFF, huh?

Sure, you form your own opinions. Pettigrew is a worthless receiver, right? (Checks numbers, uses eye test.) Nope. I'd stick to feeding off of PFF if I were you... the opinions you come up with are desperate exaggerations.
You formed opinions based on reports and stats, but now wanna talk down to me for doing the same? Someone's desperate here, but it ain't me.
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Nnivolcm


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
Uh, I watch every Lion's game. Twice. Both you and I know that you weren't watching games last season, and still had the nerve to argue as if you had any ground to stand on.

I use what I see every week, plus stats from various sources. And no one on here can ever tell me I'm unable to form my only opinion. I'm one of the most opinionated members on this forum, and I go against the masses as much as anyone without care.

I have every game from 2010 through 2012 saved on an external hard drive. I couldn't watch the games real time last year, but have since. And I didn't "argue as if I had any ground to stand on": I admitted that I couldn't watch the games (which is how you even knew that), but was forming opinions based on reports and stats. Sounds a lot like PFF, huh?

Sure, you form your own opinions. Pettigrew is a worthless receiver, right? (Checks numbers, uses eye test.) Nope. I'd stick to feeding off of PFF if I were you... the opinions you come up with are desperate exaggerations.
You formed opinions based on reports and stats, but now wanna talk down to me for doing the same? Someone's desperate here, but it ain't me.


I didn't see any stats. The only thing I've seen TL use to back his view is that Schwartz said he did ok as a blocker.
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TL-TwoWinsAway


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stylish313 wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
Uh, I watch every Lion's game. Twice. Both you and I know that you weren't watching games last season, and still had the nerve to argue as if you had any ground to stand on.

I use what I see every week, plus stats from various sources. And no one on here can ever tell me I'm unable to form my only opinion. I'm one of the most opinionated members on this forum, and I go against the masses as much as anyone without care.

I have every game from 2010 through 2012 saved on an external hard drive. I couldn't watch the games real time last year, but have since. And I didn't "argue as if I had any ground to stand on": I admitted that I couldn't watch the games (which is how you even knew that), but was forming opinions based on reports and stats. Sounds a lot like PFF, huh?

Sure, you form your own opinions. Pettigrew is a worthless receiver, right? (Checks numbers, uses eye test.) Nope. I'd stick to feeding off of PFF if I were you... the opinions you come up with are desperate exaggerations.
You formed opinions based on reports and stats, but now wanna talk down to me for doing the same? Someone's desperate here, but it ain't me.

I admitted that I formed opinions based on reports and stats for one season. You're forming opinions based on PFF's numbers... numbers that provide absolutely no context.

PFF grading: Player A blocks a starting NFL DE. Player B blocks a CB. Player A draws a negative grade. Player B draws a positive grade. PFF's conclusion: Player B is the better blocker. Fun. Not accurate, but who the hell cares? PFF without context is one of the most statistically misleading sources on the internet because it actually attempts to determine which player is better. With basic stats, NFL fans are left to argue that point on their own, which leads to considering opponents and outside circumstances. PFF doesn't provide that.

DrRay11 wrote:
Just about everyone in the forum is saying Pettigrew is a worthless receiver. Are all of our opinions desperate exaggerations?

Any person that calls Pettigrew a "worthless receiver" is making an exaggeration, absolutely. There is no question.
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stylish313


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nnivolcm wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
Uh, I watch every Lion's game. Twice. Both you and I know that you weren't watching games last season, and still had the nerve to argue as if you had any ground to stand on.

I use what I see every week, plus stats from various sources. And no one on here can ever tell me I'm unable to form my only opinion. I'm one of the most opinionated members on this forum, and I go against the masses as much as anyone without care.

I have every game from 2010 through 2012 saved on an external hard drive. I couldn't watch the games real time last year, but have since. And I didn't "argue as if I had any ground to stand on": I admitted that I couldn't watch the games (which is how you even knew that), but was forming opinions based on reports and stats. Sounds a lot like PFF, huh?

Sure, you form your own opinions. Pettigrew is a worthless receiver, right? (Checks numbers, uses eye test.) Nope. I'd stick to feeding off of PFF if I were you... the opinions you come up with are desperate exaggerations.
You formed opinions based on reports and stats, but now wanna talk down to me for doing the same? Someone's desperate here, but it ain't me.


I didn't see any stats. The only thing I've seen TL use to back his view is that Schwartz said he did ok as a blocker.
Last year- supposedly.

We all know he has no ground to stand on, he's just spitting in the wind.
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TL-TwoWinsAway


Joined: 19 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nnivolcm wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
Uh, I watch every Lion's game. Twice. Both you and I know that you weren't watching games last season, and still had the nerve to argue as if you had any ground to stand on.

I use what I see every week, plus stats from various sources. And no one on here can ever tell me I'm unable to form my only opinion. I'm one of the most opinionated members on this forum, and I go against the masses as much as anyone without care.

I have every game from 2010 through 2012 saved on an external hard drive. I couldn't watch the games real time last year, but have since. And I didn't "argue as if I had any ground to stand on": I admitted that I couldn't watch the games (which is how you even knew that), but was forming opinions based on reports and stats. Sounds a lot like PFF, huh?

Sure, you form your own opinions. Pettigrew is a worthless receiver, right? (Checks numbers, uses eye test.) Nope. I'd stick to feeding off of PFF if I were you... the opinions you come up with are desperate exaggerations.
You formed opinions based on reports and stats, but now wanna talk down to me for doing the same? Someone's desperate here, but it ain't me.


I didn't see any stats. The only thing I've seen TL use to back his view is that Schwartz said he did ok as a blocker.

You didn't see stats? Really? 2 contact drops, 1 big catch and 3 total receptions? Those aren't stats?
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Nnivolcm


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
Nnivolcm wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
TL-TwoWinsAway wrote:
stylish313 wrote:
Uh, I watch every Lion's game. Twice. Both you and I know that you weren't watching games last season, and still had the nerve to argue as if you had any ground to stand on.

I use what I see every week, plus stats from various sources. And no one on here can ever tell me I'm unable to form my only opinion. I'm one of the most opinionated members on this forum, and I go against the masses as much as anyone without care.

I have every game from 2010 through 2012 saved on an external hard drive. I couldn't watch the games real time last year, but have since. And I didn't "argue as if I had any ground to stand on": I admitted that I couldn't watch the games (which is how you even knew that), but was forming opinions based on reports and stats. Sounds a lot like PFF, huh?

Sure, you form your own opinions. Pettigrew is a worthless receiver, right? (Checks numbers, uses eye test.) Nope. I'd stick to feeding off of PFF if I were you... the opinions you come up with are desperate exaggerations.
You formed opinions based on reports and stats, but now wanna talk down to me for doing the same? Someone's desperate here, but it ain't me.


I didn't see any stats. The only thing I've seen TL use to back his view is that Schwartz said he did ok as a blocker.

You didn't see stats? Really? 2 contact drops, 1 big catch and 3 total receptions? Those aren't stats?


Must have glanced over that post. Easy thing to do when we are bouncing around three topics trying to debate the same thing with you. Still find it funny how you blow off one player's one game performance, but the only stats you drag up is from another player's one game performance, and those stats aren't really making your case for you.
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stylish313


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LMAO @ contact drops. TL inventing stats to try and save face.

It didn't work.
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