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treat88
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 6714
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 Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:30 pm Post subject: Spaeth IR/DTR-Help me understand the logic |
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So the new CBA allows 1 player per season to be classified as IR-designated to return...and the Steelers use this resource on Matt Spaeth?
Seems like a real poor way to expend the tag, on a half season of a blocking specialist TE.
If a key contributor goes down with a 6-8 week injury early this seems like a move this team could really regret.
Why not just carry him as a game day inactive or just cut him and resign him when healthy.
Is he really that valuable a contributor that we needed to waste this tag on him this early in the season...what am I missing because it seems just plain dumb.
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AlanFanecaFan
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 11236
Location: Getting hammered with Jeff Reed
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| Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Millers injury forced their hand...if healthy I don't think it happens. |
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treat88
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| AlanFanecaFan wrote: | | Millers injury forced their hand...if healthy I don't think it happens. |
They needed the TE depth, but why burn the designation on a non-contributor?
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AlanFanecaFan
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
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Location: Getting hammered with Jeff Reed
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| Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| treat88 wrote: | | AlanFanecaFan wrote: | | Millers injury forced their hand...if healthy I don't think it happens. |
They needed the TE depth, but why burn the designation on a non-contributor? |
Cause Of the system Haley loves...2TE sets lot of the time makes Spaeth a contributor sadly.
I understand where you're coming from and I agree with you but it makes sense due to the reason Im staying above. |
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FourThreeMafia
Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 61794
Location: East of Sixburgh
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| Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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I' m with you.
This team never makes questionable decisions. I don't get it.
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Dcash4
Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Posts: 1378
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| Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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I dont really see why you wouldnt use it.
I understand that someone of more significance could be injured, but that may never happen. Spaeth IS injured - thats not hypothetical, and using it now allows us to essentially keep a 54th player if you think of it that way.
I just dont see what the real benefit is for using it IN season on a player or more significance as to using it now, when you can keep an extra player that you just had in camp and may have been on the roster bubble otherwise.
Player significance doesn't seem to matter to me as long as they are a contributor. Its about the roster spot that it opens, rather than who. |
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treat88
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
Posts: 6714
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| Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Dcash4 wrote: | I dont really see why you wouldnt use it.
I understand that someone of more significance could be injured, but that may never happen. Spaeth IS injured - thats not hypothetical, and using it now allows us to essentially keep a 54th player if you think of it that way.
I just dont see what the real benefit is for using it IN season on a player or more significance as to using it now, when you can keep an extra player that you just had in camp and may have been on the roster bubble otherwise.
Player significance doesn't seem to matter to me as long as they are a contributor. Its about the roster spot that it opens, rather than who. |
Because you could simply cut Spaeth and bring him back when/if he gets healthy.
The odds of another team signing him while injured are very low and if someone does...no great loss.
Miller gets healthy, Paulson moves into the #2 TE spot and a guy like Palmer or a street free agent like Richard Quinn fills the blocking TE role.
Save the spot for an injury to a guy that doesn't allow that type of flexibility in replacing them.
If they really think Spaeth's receiving/blocking skill combination is that tough to replace and they can't chance another team swooping in and stealing him...OK. They see something very different then I do, but OK, I get it. I think he's a one dimensional player and that one dimension he brings, blocking, is a dimension that they can find in any number of guys currently unemployed.
It's a small thing, I don't want to belabor the point too much, but the accumulation of small things this team does to minimize their chances of winning [inappropriate/removed] me off.
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Dcash4
Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Posts: 1378
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| Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| treat88 wrote: | | Dcash4 wrote: | I dont really see why you wouldnt use it.
I understand that someone of more significance could be injured, but that may never happen. Spaeth IS injured - thats not hypothetical, and using it now allows us to essentially keep a 54th player if you think of it that way.
I just dont see what the real benefit is for using it IN season on a player or more significance as to using it now, when you can keep an extra player that you just had in camp and may have been on the roster bubble otherwise.
Player significance doesn't seem to matter to me as long as they are a contributor. Its about the roster spot that it opens, rather than who. |
Because you could simply cut Spaeth and bring him back when/if he gets healthy.
The odds of another team signing him while injured are very low and if someone does...no great loss.
Miller gets healthy, Paulson moves into the #2 TE spot and a guy like Palmer or a street free agent like Richard Quinn fills the blocking TE role.
Save the spot for an injury to a guy that doesn't allow that type of flexibility in replacing them.
If they really think Spaeth's receiving/blocking skill combination is that tough to replace and they can't chance another team swooping in and stealing him...OK. They see something very different then I do, but OK, I get it. I think he's a one dimensional player and that one dimension he brings, blocking, is a dimension that they can find in any number of guys currently unemployed.
It's a small thing, I don't want to belabor the point too much, but the accumulation of small things this team does to minimize their chances of winning [inappropriate/removed] me off. |
I dont think its smart to cut Speath, not because i think he is some fantastic player -but wouldnt you have to pay him in a settlement, then possibly pay him again to resign when heathy? Also, he may not be a stud, but i think he is head and shoulders better than the other TEs currently on the roster and could be a big fit next behind Miller down the line, but thats still not where im going with this - so thats another talk for another day.
The biggest benefit behidn the rule is to essentially gain an extra player. Wouldnt you want to grab the extra player now, rather than the best of the rest a few weeks into the season? Whats that difference?
Thats the part i dont get. Whats the major benefit behind keeping the designation that you honesty may never use, and even if you end up doing in in week 2, 3, 4 whenever whats the major benefit of using it than rather than now?
But i mean if cutting Speath would be your alternative answer (therefore using his roster spot with the extra player, and still having the designation for later) than thats what you would do. I just think more highly of Speath as compared to what we currently have/what would be available to us later and dont think designating him is that big of an issue.
I just dont see the benefit of holding onto the designation. |
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stallyns
Joined: 02 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:25 am Post subject: |
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| treat88 wrote: | | Because you could simply cut Spaeth and bring him back when/if he gets healthy. |
It's not as easy as that though. The Steelers would have to release Spaeth with an injury settlement. (Which would depend on the expected length of recovery for the injury.) Then he could sign with any team as long as he could pass a physical. But the Steelers wouldn't be able to negotiate with him until after 6 weeks had passed since his release.
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CKSteeler
Joined: 17 Mar 2013
Posts: 9616
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| Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:58 am Post subject: |
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I would have just used the normal designation for him. Miller is expected back well before Spaeth is. Michael Palmer is a guy who has three years of film to watch, contributes on special teams and a good blocker. Whatever Spaeth brings to the table over him is negligible.
I look at this as a team that is too comfortable with their guys.
| Quote: |
The biggest benefit behidn the rule is to essentially gain an extra player. Wouldnt you want to grab the extra player now, rather than the best of the rest a few weeks into the season? Whats that difference? |
I don't understand the logic here. Release or IR Spaeth, and the team would have had an extra roster spot for cut downs immediately. Say, for instance, the team had really wanted to keep McFadden but lost him in the numbers game. He signs with Oakland, leaving them with Garvin. |
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treat88
Joined: 03 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:52 am Post subject: |
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I guess I can just foresee a situation where a Troy, Timmons, Wood, Brown, Pouncey, Adams type goes down with a 6-8 week injury...they'd be back late in the season to help with a playoff push but in that scenario the FO's hand is forced because they burnt the designation on Spaeth.
They lose that flexibility, and do so to ensure they have 1/2 season from a #2/3 blocking TE and to make sure they have Terrance Garvin available if needed on ST. Really? Maybe these things are a key to success this season but it sure feels short sighted given the injury possibilities once real games start being played.
It may or may not happen, but if they are forced to IR a contributor they otherwise might have brought back late in the year, because they wasted the designation on Spaeth...well, that strikes be as a bad trade off.
I'd have rather just IR'd Spaeth, kept McFadden, kept the designation, and roll with Palmer as the blocking TE.
Again, I'm wasting a lot of words on what is likely not a very big deal, but it just seems like a dumb maneuver and that frustrates me. Nuff said on my part.
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wwhickok
Joined: 27 Nov 2012
Posts: 17115
Location: Montgomery, PA aka Steeler Nation!
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| Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:13 am Post subject: |
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I think this is being over complicated. It is my belief they simply made the decision that they don't want to address the TE position during the season, as a result they have gone this route with Spaeth, who they (I assume) feel is a better option than no option.
I would suggest that perhaps they're not seeing anything out there they like (though I personally would've picked up Daniel Fells or someone like that).
I fully expect the Steelers to draft a TE in 2014. I don't like the move, it doesn't make a ton of sense to me, but I think it simply comes down to not wanting to screw with the roster too much during the season.
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Dcash4
Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Posts: 1378
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| Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I guess I can just foresee a situation where a Troy, Timmons, Wood, Brown, Pouncey, Adams type goes down with a 6-8 week injury...they'd be back late in the season to help with a playoff push but in that scenario the FO's hand is forced because they burnt the designation on Spaeth. |
We have dealt with that situation before with carrying an injured player as an inactive on game day (See: Smith, Aaron).
That's not a new situation. Up until last year you would have had to do that regardless. This new IR-DTR at least allows you to take a player off your 53 without losing him, and add another. Doesn't matter if it was Speath, Pouncey, Ben, or Curtis Brown. The name associated doesn't matter, just that the rules allows me to benefit by technically carrying a 54th player does.
| Quote: | It may or may not happen, but if they are forced to IR a contributor they otherwise might have brought back late in the year, because they wasted the designation on Spaeth...well, that strikes be as a bad trade off.
I'd have rather just IR'd Spaeth, kept McFadden, kept the designation, and roll with Palmer as the blocking TE. |
Again, if a player is hurt he doesn't have to go on IR. 6-8 weeks is work able. I just don't see why you wouldn't use the extra roster space now.
Marshalls name has showed up a few times now. If Marshall was meant to be on this team, Kion Wilson would have been the one released. Speath didnt take his job - Wilson did.
I understand the issue is with it being Speath, but i absolutely see him as a contributor down the line. I must have missed the Michael Palmer show in the pre-season, but i know that i have zero faith in any of the other TEs on our team other than Miller. Id absolutely put Speath above Johnson, Palmer, and Paulsen.
But to each his own. |
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armsteeld
Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 6125
Location: In your head
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| Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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I see it as a horrible move for a below average player. There are better veterans out there in FA. I never have valued him as a player. This tag could and should have been reserved for someone else.
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steelcurtain29
Joined: 04 Oct 2007
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Location: Monongahela, PA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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Can't they re-tract the move of bringing him back? I thought you could "change" your mind about it before that said player comes back?
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