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Week 1: GDT Miami Dolphins vs. Cleveland Browns
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MDolphins2399


Joined: 16 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hurricanes26 wrote:
I think this is a 100% must win game for us. It will set the tone for the rest of the year. We can't do that starting awful garbage we do every year and this year's schedule is rough.


The schedule is so important here. I agree we need this win because without it we may very well be 0-5 going into the bye. I don't think that if we were to lose on sunday you could chalk it up as an 0-5 start at all, but we can't start 0-5 if we start 1-0.
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Warpticon


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaWg_LB. wrote:
Warpticon wrote:
I think, health and unusual circumstances notwithstanding, this game favors Miami fairly significantly. Cleveland won't be a pushover, but Miami has advantages across the board. Cleveland can win if their strong OL can overpower the Dolphins' strong DL and put together a dominant running day or if they manage to dominate the turnover game. Otherwise, I don't see them having enough offensive consistency against Miami's D, especially with their most dangerous receiver out.

If this game was 8 weeks later I'd be a lot more concerned, but as it is I think this is a pretty ideal test for the Dolphins in week one. We'll see how it turns out.


Curious and respectful Browns fan here....

Just curious....as to what "Significant advantages across the board" you speak of?

If you look at QB play.....tannyhill completed %0.9 more completions, they both threw more INT's than TD's.....

If were talking RB.....I don't think we really need to compare Lamar Miller to Trent Richardson or do you think Miller is better? IF Richardson is healthy.....I don't think its close...

TE's? Push? Neither team has an established starter...J. Cameron may be the most athletic TE on either team....

I'll give the nod to WR to Miami ONLY because Josh Gordon is not playing.....then I would really say push or advantage Cleveland....

Oline.....I think to the man, the Browns have a better Oline....we have a LT that we can say....Wake = 1 tackle and 1 sack....

And on D.....
DB's? Push maybe top to bottom.....Jones is a great saftey.,...but Miami will be starting a kid coming off an year long injury and a CB that was Cut by Cleveland....we have Joe Haden to lock on anyone...and hopefully SKrine will be on mike wallace....I really would debate on a straight fly route if Wallace could run past Buster Skrine (They Both Run in the 4.2's)

LB's.....Cleveland? Push? Miami?
(DQ, very respected OLB....Kruger leading sacker for the defending world Champions, Jabal Sheard...and the #6 pick in the draft Mingo)
(Miami- Brand new Middle LB Eleerbe.....Misi 4.5 Carrer sacks and Wheeler good strong side LB.....and the top backup to OLB...Jason Trusnik...another Cleveland cut...) just making my argument Very Happy

Dline....Were deep....and Phil Taylor will establish himself as a top 5 Dlineman in the NFL this season IMO....IF he can stay healthy...

Coaching: HC may be a push, but I would give the nod to Cleveland for having the stronger coodinators.....

Special Teams: Miami hands down....

Please correct me if you see this differently?


When I talk about advantages, I'm talking matchups. It doesn't matter if one team's linebackers are better than the other team's because there is no time when linebackers will be playing against one another.

In short: I'm more confident in Miami's ability to move the ball in the air on Cleveland's defense than I am in Cleveland's ability to do so on Miami's defense. Things would be different if Gordon was playing or if Cleveland had a dangerous seam threat TE, but that's not the case at this time. I also believe Cleveland will get some chunk yardage in the air but will struggle to sustain drives and get first downs consistently.

I'm also more confident in Miami's ability to stop the run than I am in Cleveland's ability to stop Miami's run game. I'm questionable as to how well the Dolphins will run the ball, but that is superseded by the fact that I don't expect Cleveland to be very successful running because I am that confident in Miami's run defense. You could say I expect Miami to lose the least in this regard.

I don't see any of these advantages as huge, but I do see them as advantages. That leads us to special teams, which I do see as a sizable advantage. Turnovers notwithstanding, if the game comes down to field position, Miami has a decided advantage, and field position advantages eventually lead to point advantages, particularly with a kicker who's good from nearly 60 out.

I'm not sure why you keep bringing up players who were Cleveland cuts. Cuts are almost always dictated by circumstance. Rob Ninkovich was a Dolphins cut, and I'm pretty sure nobody ever duses that to disparage him when the Dolphins play the Patriots. There are countless other examples across the league. Also, sacks are a very poor way to measure the value of a strongside 4-3 linebacker.

My overall opinion on the Browns is that they will be a significantly improved team, but it might not be reflected in their record because they won't be at their best until later in the season. I'm higher on Weeden than a lot of non-browns fans, and I like the way he closed the season out pretty solidly.
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cddolphin


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I've said in the Browns' GDT, this game will come down to who pressures the opposing QB the most. I personally think the Dolphins have the advantage here. They've got the personnel on the DL, and Tannehill has been getting most of his passes out in <2.5 seconds this preseason. Hard to get to the QB that fast.

If Sturgis continues his level of play, we have a top 5 kicker, and punter, and a returner who got us 2 TDs last season.
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bigmark76


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cddolphin wrote:
As I've said in the Browns' GDT, this game will come down to who pressures the opposing QB the most. I personally think the Dolphins have the advantage here. They've got the personnel on the DL, and Tannehill has been getting most of his passes out in <2.5 seconds this preseason. Hard to get to the QB that fast.

If Sturgis continues his level of play, we have a top 5 kicker, and punter, and a returner who got us 2 TDs last season.


Just a question how good has Sturgis been? I live in WI, so I haven't been able to watch him play. Everyone seems excited about the kid and I'm curious as to what it is that has everyone so excited? (outside of not having the hippie anymore)
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Warpticon


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigmark76 wrote:
cddolphin wrote:
As I've said in the Browns' GDT, this game will come down to who pressures the opposing QB the most. I personally think the Dolphins have the advantage here. They've got the personnel on the DL, and Tannehill has been getting most of his passes out in <2.5 seconds this preseason. Hard to get to the QB that fast.

If Sturgis continues his level of play, we have a top 5 kicker, and punter, and a returner who got us 2 TDs last season.


Just a question how good has Sturgis been? I live in WI, so I haven't been able to watch him play. Everyone seems excited about the kid and I'm curious as to what it is that has everyone so excited? (outside of not having the hippie anymore)


9-9 in the preseason with a 58-yarder and 15-21 kickoffs out the back of the end zone.
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bigmark76


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Warpticon wrote:
bigmark76 wrote:
cddolphin wrote:
As I've said in the Browns' GDT, this game will come down to who pressures the opposing QB the most. I personally think the Dolphins have the advantage here. They've got the personnel on the DL, and Tannehill has been getting most of his passes out in <2.5 seconds this preseason. Hard to get to the QB that fast.

If Sturgis continues his level of play, we have a top 5 kicker, and punter, and a returner who got us 2 TDs last season.


Just a question how good has Sturgis been? I live in WI, so I haven't been able to watch him play. Everyone seems excited about the kid and I'm curious as to what it is that has everyone so excited? (outside of not having the hippie anymore)


9-9 in the preseason with a 58-yarder and 15-21 kickoffs out the back of the end zone.
Very Happy I like that stat line!
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cddolphin


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigmark76 wrote:
Warpticon wrote:
bigmark76 wrote:
cddolphin wrote:
As I've said in the Browns' GDT, this game will come down to who pressures the opposing QB the most. I personally think the Dolphins have the advantage here. They've got the personnel on the DL, and Tannehill has been getting most of his passes out in <2.5 seconds this preseason. Hard to get to the QB that fast.

If Sturgis continues his level of play, we have a top 5 kicker, and punter, and a returner who got us 2 TDs last season.


Just a question how good has Sturgis been? I live in WI, so I haven't been able to watch him play. Everyone seems excited about the kid and I'm curious as to what it is that has everyone so excited? (outside of not having the hippie anymore)


9-9 in the preseason with a 58-yarder and 15-21 kickoffs out the back of the end zone.
Very Happy I like that stat line!


Not only that but I watched him at Florida. Dude has cajones of steel. Comes through in crunch time with big boy kicks.
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dolphan9954


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the game will be close, but I think Miami is significantly better if that makes sense.

When Cleveland has the ball...

Richardson isn't going to be all that effective. Miami tends to handle those kind of backs, and most backs in general. Most of last season, teams would try to run on Miami early, Miami would stuff the run, and the teams would shy away from it because they knew they had no chance. The Dolphins defensive line got better since last season. The Dolphins have 3 starting caliber defensive tackles (IMO all will be top 15-20 on PFF by season's end.), Wake is a force against the run and Vernon also is a solid run stopper.

In the passing game Miami holds a clear advantage. Up front, the matchups strongly favor the Dolphins. Cameron Wake is pretty exclusive to rushing off of the RT (he is the LE) and Mitchell Schwartz is basically a bad OT. Wake is going to torment him. Mack and Thomas are nice pieces, but few if any center in the game block Paul Soliai man-on-man. Thomas is blocking Vernon, and will most likely limit Vernon as a rusher, but Vernon also is a good run defender. The pass rush will come from Dion Jordan in hybrid positions, Wake off RT, plus the advanced pressure packages that have looked VERY good in preseason as well as in practice per the beat writers.

In the back end, Bess is going to get open but he is incredibly limited and cannot kill a team. Travis Benjamin is just fast, Greg Little is very average. Unless Nolan Carroll gets flat abused, Patterson and Grimes should have little issue in coverage.

When the Dolphins have the ball...

In the run game, the Dolphins have a very solid OL. 4/5 of the Fins OL (minus Jerry) are very good in the run game. The Browns are HUGE up front, but very, stiff. Phil Taylor and Rubin can be moved, and are not good in pursuit (obviously). The one-cut style that Miller has could provide problems. I doubt he runs all over Cleveland, but as a unit the Dolphins can run for 120 yards.

In the passing game, the Browns have a chance to take advantage. Joe Haden I think will cover Hartline (he should). Wallace will likely eat against Skrine. Skrine is fast, but he is an average corner. Gibson and Clay are the x-factors. If they have 100 yards combined, the Fins should be fine offensively.

IMO this has the making of a 24-10 Dolphins victory.
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Thomas5737


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dolphan9954 wrote:
I think the game will be close, but I think Miami is significantly better if that makes sense.

When Cleveland has the ball...

Richardson isn't going to be all that effective. Miami tends to handle those kind of backs, and most backs in general. Most of last season, teams would try to run on Miami early, Miami would stuff the run, and the teams would shy away from it because they knew they had no chance. The Dolphins defensive line got better since last season. The Dolphins have 3 starting caliber defensive tackles (IMO all will be top 15-20 on PFF by season's end.), Wake is a force against the run and Vernon also is a solid run stopper.

In the passing game Miami holds a clear advantage. Up front, the matchups strongly favor the Dolphins. Cameron Wake is pretty exclusive to rushing off of the RT (he is the LE) and (a)Mitchell Schwartz is basically a bad OT. Wake is going to torment him. Mack and Thomas are nice pieces, but few if any center in the game block Paul Soliai man-on-man. Thomas is blocking Vernon, and will most likely limit Vernon as a rusher, but Vernon also is a good run defender. The pass rush will come from Dion Jordan in hybrid positions, Wake off RT, plus the advanced pressure packages that have looked VERY good in preseason as well as in practice per the beat writers.

In the back end, Bess is going to get open but he is incredibly limited and cannot kill a team. Travis Benjamin is just fast, Greg Little is very average. Unless Nolan Carroll gets flat abused, Patterson and Grimes should have little issue in coverage.

When the Dolphins have the ball...

In the run game, the Dolphins have a very solid OL. 4/5 of the Fins OL (minus Jerry) are very good in the run game. The Browns are HUGE up front, but very, stiff. (b)Phil Taylor and Rubin can be moved, and are not good in pursuit (obviously). The one-cut style that Miller has could provide problems. I doubt he runs all over Cleveland, but as a unit the Dolphins can run for 120 yards.

In the passing game, the Browns have a chance to take advantage. Joe Haden I think will cover Hartline (he should). Wallace will likely eat against Skrine. Skrine is fast, but he is an average corner. Gibson and Clay are the x-factors. If they have 100 yards combined, the Fins should be fine offensively.

IMO this has the making of a 24-10 Dolphins victory.


(a) Schwartz was the 21st ranked tackle in the NFL as a rookie. He is better in pass protection than in the running game. Schwartz’s pass protection was very good throughout as he gave up only 5 sacks, 9 hits on the quarterback, and 19 hurries.

(b) They are actually very good in pursuit, very high motors. Rubin makes tackles all over the field.

But enough of this civil game discussion, Sunday is drawing near...

T-Rich runs for 250 yards, Weeden throws for 350 and 4 TD's. Browns defense pitches a shut out. Laughing

I do like the look of the Dolphins roster, but like the Browns there is some gelling that needs to happen. I think both teams will look significantly better later in the year. Odd makers say the game is even and I think that is about right, I'm picking Cleveland because they are at home.



Oh yeah, and because I am a Browns fan. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thomas5737 wrote:
dolphan9954 wrote:
I think the game will be close, but I think Miami is significantly better if that makes sense.

When Cleveland has the ball...

Richardson isn't going to be all that effective. Miami tends to handle those kind of backs, and most backs in general. Most of last season, teams would try to run on Miami early, Miami would stuff the run, and the teams would shy away from it because they knew they had no chance. The Dolphins defensive line got better since last season. The Dolphins have 3 starting caliber defensive tackles (IMO all will be top 15-20 on PFF by season's end.), Wake is a force against the run and Vernon also is a solid run stopper.

In the passing game Miami holds a clear advantage. Up front, the matchups strongly favor the Dolphins. Cameron Wake is pretty exclusive to rushing off of the RT (he is the LE) and (a)Mitchell Schwartz is basically a bad OT. Wake is going to torment him. Mack and Thomas are nice pieces, but few if any center in the game block Paul Soliai man-on-man. Thomas is blocking Vernon, and will most likely limit Vernon as a rusher, but Vernon also is a good run defender. The pass rush will come from Dion Jordan in hybrid positions, Wake off RT, plus the advanced pressure packages that have looked VERY good in preseason as well as in practice per the beat writers.

In the back end, Bess is going to get open but he is incredibly limited and cannot kill a team. Travis Benjamin is just fast, Greg Little is very average. Unless Nolan Carroll gets flat abused, Patterson and Grimes should have little issue in coverage.

When the Dolphins have the ball...

In the run game, the Dolphins have a very solid OL. 4/5 of the Fins OL (minus Jerry) are very good in the run game. The Browns are HUGE up front, but very, stiff. (b)Phil Taylor and Rubin can be moved, and are not good in pursuit (obviously). The one-cut style that Miller has could provide problems. I doubt he runs all over Cleveland, but as a unit the Dolphins can run for 120 yards.

In the passing game, the Browns have a chance to take advantage. Joe Haden I think will cover Hartline (he should). Wallace will likely eat against Skrine. Skrine is fast, but he is an average corner. Gibson and Clay are the x-factors. If they have 100 yards combined, the Fins should be fine offensively.

IMO this has the making of a 24-10 Dolphins victory.


(a) Schwartz was the 21st ranked tackle in the NFL as a rookie. He is better in pass protection than in the running game. Schwartz’s pass protection was very good throughout as he gave up only 5 sacks, 9 hits on the quarterback, and 19 hurries.

(b) They are actually very good in pursuit, very high motors. Rubin makes tackles all over the field.

But enough of this civil game discussion, Sunday is drawing near...

T-Rich runs for 250 yards, Weeden throws for 350 and 4 TD's. Browns defense pitches a shut out. Laughing

I do like the look of the Dolphins roster, but like the Browns there is some gelling that needs to happen. I think both teams will look significantly better later in the year. Odd makers say the game is even and I think that is about right, I'm picking Cleveland because they are at home.



Oh yeah, and because I am a Browns fan. Very Happy


But you have a dolphin in your avatar! You must be conflicted. Laughing

I agree that both teams will be a lot better later in the season. I think that works to Miami's advantage, though. They're in their second season under a new staff, and while both teams have had a lot of turnover, The Dolphins return enough key talent (especially on defense) that a second season under this staff is an advantage.

All in all, this is why I think the Dolphins hold an across-the-board advantage in this matchup, even if they're almost all 5.5-4.5 advantages. It's the NFL, though, and every team is full of NFL players. All it takes is a couple of players playing better than expected and a matchup can turn. If Cleveland defies history and gets a dominant running game going (Miami's run D has been mostly dominant and almost exclusively susceptible to smaller, spryer backs like CJ Spiller rather than power backs), things get a lot harder for the Dolphins.
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ViolentMonk71


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote






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Warpticon


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chris Kouffman is my favorite Dolphins reporter/writer because he puts so much research and consideration into his every stance. Even when I don't agree I have to respect his position because it's so well-founded. He's written a very interesting piece here about what Miami can do in their game plan to win this game.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1762393-miami-dolphins-vs-cleveland-browns-breaking-down-miamis-game-plan
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ViolentMonk71


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Warpticon wrote:
Chris Kouffman is my favorite Dolphins reporter/writer because he puts so much research and consideration into his every stance. Even when I don't agree I have to respect his position because it's so well-founded. He's written a very interesting piece here about what Miami can do in their game plan to win this game.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1762393-miami-dolphins-vs-cleveland-browns-breaking-down-miamis-game-plan


Excellent read....
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Maddogg


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Top Five Reasons We Beat Cleveland


1) Browns. How could you possibly win with a name like that? Was it named after the color of water in Cleveland? Or maybe with heads sunk low its the color of the stripe in the middle of their underwear. Sixty years ago Browns wasn't a bad name because their was only black and white on tv, just having the name of something else was special.

2) Norv Turner. He was a decent offensive coordinator thirty plus years ago. He has lived off that reputation ever since which is about as relevant as Al Bundys record high school game. San Diego in a moment of clarity finally fired him. Cleveland under the influence from fumes coming from Lake Eire hired him. Post season analysts will conclude after 2013 that Hodor could have done better.

3) Davone Bess. Although on Clevelands roster, he still works for the Miami Dolphins. Mr. Ross is paying him slightly over 5.2 million this year. Davone has been instructed in espionage prior to his faked release from the Dolphins. During this weeks game he will be using hand signals, coded messages and unique duck calls to tip off what the Browns are doing from across the field. He will also be responsible for key drops to stall drives and may even be called upon to fumble if necessary. This type of play is typical in Cleveland so no suspicions should arise.

4) Jimmy Haslam. The Browns owner is in deep trouble with law enforcement. He cheated his customers at the Pilot Flying J by an assortment of methods including calling what he served at truck stops food and forcing truckers to purchase unsold Crown car air fresheners. Haslam sensing a long prison term is attempting to ease his legal woes and get favored treatment by telling officials secretly to " bet heavily on Miami". If need be he is ready to man the sprinkler control to have Cundiff miss the game winning field goal. With Billy being well Billy that may not be necessary.

5) Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame. Def Leppard, The Cars, Bon Jovi and Jethro Tull are not in the hall of fame. Madonna is. Cleveland should lose on that alone.
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bpastermack


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maddogg wrote:
Top Five Reasons We Beat Cleveland


1) Browns. How could you possibly win with a name like that? Was it named after the color of water in Cleveland? Or maybe with heads sunk low its the color of the stripe in the middle of their underwear. Sixty years ago Browns wasn't a bad name because their was only black and white on tv, just having the name of something else was special.

2) Norv Turner. He was a decent offensive coordinator thirty plus years ago. He has lived off that reputation ever since which is about as relevant as Al Bundys record high school game. San Diego in a moment of clarity finally fired him. Cleveland under the influence from fumes coming from Lake Eire hired him. Post season analysts will conclude after 2013 that Hodor could have done better.

3) Davone Bess. Although on Clevelands roster, he still works for the Miami Dolphins. Mr. Ross is paying him slightly over 5.2 million this year. Davone has been instructed in espionage prior to his faked release from the Dolphins. During this weeks game he will be using hand signals, coded messages and unique duck calls to tip off what the Browns are doing from across the field. He will also be responsible for key drops to stall drives and may even be called upon to fumble if necessary. This type of play is typical in Cleveland so no suspicions should arise.

4) Jimmy Haslam. The Browns owner is in deep trouble with law enforcement. He cheated his customers at the Pilot Flying J by an assortment of methods including calling what he served at truck stops food and forcing truckers to purchase unsold Crown car air fresheners. Haslam sensing a long prison term is attempting to ease his legal woes and get favored treatment by telling officials secretly to " bet heavily on Miami". If need be he is ready to man the sprinkler control to have Cundiff miss the game winning field goal. With Billy being well Billy that may not be necessary.

5) Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame. Def Leppard, The Cars, Bon Jovi and Jethro Tull are not in the hall of fame. Madonna is. Cleveland should lose on that alone.


This makes perfect sense to me. If Cleveland fans can't understand that, then they probably think Brown is actually a color...
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