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Cole416


Joined: 01 Jul 2013
Posts: 761
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ServantofYHWH wrote:
Cole416 wrote:
This debate is





You have 3 really respected posters having different opinions. I am onto my 4th batch of popcorn reading this Cool
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amazingandre


Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 13957
Location: Elkhorn, WI
PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no reason to not like Schaub, the guy is the qb for my favorite team. I want him to succeed and carry this team, but Im a realist. He simply isn't good enough to win like that. He needs our run game and defense to be great and he can do just enough to get us by. I don't like that. BUT I know right now we've boxed our self into a corner and have no choice.

But to say he is elite or borderline elite is ridiculous. The guy is no where close to being top 10. He has a top 5 wide out, top 8 tight end, top 3 running back, top 10 oline and yet he posts a mere 22 to 12 td:int ratio. Thats garbage IMO
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mse326


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Joined: 19 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

amazingandre wrote:
I have no reason to not like Schaub, the guy is the qb for my favorite team. I want him to succeed and carry this team, but Im a realist. He simply isn't good enough to win like that. He needs our run game and defense to be great and he can do just enough to get us by. I don't like that. BUT I know right now we've boxed our self into a corner and have no choice.

But to say he is elite or borderline elite is ridiculous. The guy is no where close to being top 10. He has a top 5 wide out, top 8 tight end, top 3 running back, top 10 oline and yet he posts a mere 22 to 12 td:int ratio. Thats garbage IMO


If we only consider QBs that had 200 attempts (so there is at least some sample size) in a season these are his ranks the last 3 years in TD:INT ratio

2012- 12th
2011- 7th
2010- 11th

In INT%
2012- 8th
2011- 6th
2010- 9th

Last year he had only 53 attempts in the red zone. That ranked 21st.

He doesn't get the same opportunities because we decide not only to give the TDs to RBs, but to run as soon as we get into the RZ and only throw on the inevitable 3rd and long. Despite that he was tied for 15th in total passing TDs. (I looked at some of the numbers but didn't do calculations but if my estimation was right he was 12th in TD% in the RZ).

He takes care of the ball fine seeing as he's been in the top 10 the last 3 years, and the TD% is only low because we don't give him opportunities in the RZ. And still his ratio the last 3 years was borderline top 10.

If that's garbage to you then you need to reevaluate your standards.
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amazingandre


Joined: 16 Dec 2007
Posts: 13957
Location: Elkhorn, WI
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mse326 wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
I have no reason to not like Schaub, the guy is the qb for my favorite team. I want him to succeed and carry this team, but Im a realist. He simply isn't good enough to win like that. He needs our run game and defense to be great and he can do just enough to get us by. I don't like that. BUT I know right now we've boxed our self into a corner and have no choice.

But to say he is elite or borderline elite is ridiculous. The guy is no where close to being top 10. He has a top 5 wide out, top 8 tight end, top 3 running back, top 10 oline and yet he posts a mere 22 to 12 td:int ratio. Thats garbage IMO


If we only consider QBs that had 200 attempts (so there is at least some sample size) in a season these are his ranks the last 3 years in TD:INT ratio

2012- 12th
2011- 7th
2010- 11th

In INT%
2012- 8th
2011- 6th
2010- 9th

Last year he had only 53 attempts in the red zone. That ranked 21st.

He doesn't get the same opportunities because we decide not only to give the TDs to RBs, but to run as soon as we get into the RZ and only throw on the inevitable 3rd and long. Despite that he was tied for 15th in total passing TDs. (I looked at some of the numbers but didn't do calculations but if my estimation was right he was 12th in TD% in the RZ).

He takes care of the ball fine seeing as he's been in the top 10 the last 3 years, and the TD% is only low because we don't give him opportunities in the RZ. And still his ratio the last 3 years was borderline top 10.

If that's garbage to you then you need to reevaluate your standards.


Have no idea where you got your stats, but Schaub was TIED at 15th last year with 22 tds,

He was 16th in interceptions throw last year, in 2011 he was injured, but 21st in tds thrown....

In Matts BEST year, 2010, he threw only 24 tds and was 12th in the league. And if only considering the people who threw 200 times or more, he was 17th in ints.

Matt is not that good people. He is average, a game manager.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_INTERCEPTIONS&tabSeq=0&season=2010&Submit=Go&experience=&archive=true&statisticCategory=PASSING&conference=null&qualified=false

Look at the stats
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Jacobys Homey


Joined: 05 Mar 2008
Posts: 8859
Location: BU
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

amazingandre wrote:
mse326 wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
I have no reason to not like Schaub, the guy is the qb for my favorite team. I want him to succeed and carry this team, but Im a realist. He simply isn't good enough to win like that. He needs our run game and defense to be great and he can do just enough to get us by. I don't like that. BUT I know right now we've boxed our self into a corner and have no choice.

But to say he is elite or borderline elite is ridiculous. The guy is no where close to being top 10. He has a top 5 wide out, top 8 tight end, top 3 running back, top 10 oline and yet he posts a mere 22 to 12 td:int ratio. Thats garbage IMO


If we only consider QBs that had 200 attempts (so there is at least some sample size) in a season these are his ranks the last 3 years in TD:INT ratio

2012- 12th
2011- 7th
2010- 11th

In INT%
2012- 8th
2011- 6th
2010- 9th

Last year he had only 53 attempts in the red zone. That ranked 21st.

He doesn't get the same opportunities because we decide not only to give the TDs to RBs, but to run as soon as we get into the RZ and only throw on the inevitable 3rd and long. Despite that he was tied for 15th in total passing TDs. (I looked at some of the numbers but didn't do calculations but if my estimation was right he was 12th in TD% in the RZ).

He takes care of the ball fine seeing as he's been in the top 10 the last 3 years, and the TD% is only low because we don't give him opportunities in the RZ. And still his ratio the last 3 years was borderline top 10.

If that's garbage to you then you need to reevaluate your standards.


Have no idea where you got your stats, but Schaub was TIED at 15th last year with 22 tds,

He was 16th in interceptions throw last year, in 2011 he was injured, but 21st in tds thrown....

In Matts BEST year, 2010, he threw only 24 tds and was 12th in the league. And if only considering the people who threw 200 times or more, he was 17th in ints.

Matt is not that good people. He is average, a game manager.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_INTERCEPTIONS&tabSeq=0&season=2010&Submit=Go&experience=&archive=true&statisticCategory=PASSING&conference=null&qualified=false

Look at the stats


Guys, Ax2 is right. Matt drives us all the way down the field but then sucks so hard that he has to hand off to Arian Foster to get TDs. He SUCKS and is just GAME MANAGER. God, I get it now.
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ServantofYHWH


Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Posts: 13659
Location: Clutch City
PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2013 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

amazingandre wrote:
mse326 wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
I have no reason to not like Schaub, the guy is the qb for my favorite team. I want him to succeed and carry this team, but Im a realist. He simply isn't good enough to win like that. He needs our run game and defense to be great and he can do just enough to get us by. I don't like that. BUT I know right now we've boxed our self into a corner and have no choice.

But to say he is elite or borderline elite is ridiculous. The guy is no where close to being top 10. He has a top 5 wide out, top 8 tight end, top 3 running back, top 10 oline and yet he posts a mere 22 to 12 td:int ratio. Thats garbage IMO


If we only consider QBs that had 200 attempts (so there is at least some sample size) in a season these are his ranks the last 3 years in TD:INT ratio

2012- 12th
2011- 7th
2010- 11th

In INT%
2012- 8th
2011- 6th
2010- 9th

Last year he had only 53 attempts in the red zone. That ranked 21st.

He doesn't get the same opportunities because we decide not only to give the TDs to RBs, but to run as soon as we get into the RZ and only throw on the inevitable 3rd and long. Despite that he was tied for 15th in total passing TDs. (I looked at some of the numbers but didn't do calculations but if my estimation was right he was 12th in TD% in the RZ).

He takes care of the ball fine seeing as he's been in the top 10 the last 3 years, and the TD% is only low because we don't give him opportunities in the RZ. And still his ratio the last 3 years was borderline top 10.

If that's garbage to you then you need to reevaluate your standards.


Have no idea where you got your stats, but Schaub was TIED at 15th last year with 22 tds,

He was 16th in interceptions throw last year, in 2011 he was injured, but 21st in tds thrown....

In Matts BEST year, 2010, he threw only 24 tds and was 12th in the league. And if only considering the people who threw 200 times or more, he was 17th in ints.

Matt is not that good people. He is average, a game manager.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_INTERCEPTIONS&tabSeq=0&season=2010&Submit=Go&experience=&archive=true&statisticCategory=PASSING&conference=null&qualified=false

Look at the stats


He took out players with less than 200 pass attempts.

Schaub has managed the game this past year. But he's shown that he can compete in shoot outs and win. He also helps in that he can throw it down field with much more success than Yates.

When Yates went on that 3-3 run he was 1-20 on 20+ yard passes
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kurtatx


Joined: 08 Sep 2013
Posts: 96
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ServantofYHWH wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
mse326 wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
I have no reason to not like Schaub, the guy is the qb for my favorite team. I want him to succeed and carry this team, but Im a realist. He simply isn't good enough to win like that. He needs our run game and defense to be great and he can do just enough to get us by. I don't like that. BUT I know right now we've boxed our self into a corner and have no choice.

But to say he is elite or borderline elite is ridiculous. The guy is no where close to being top 10. He has a top 5 wide out, top 8 tight end, top 3 running back, top 10 oline and yet he posts a mere 22 to 12 td:int ratio. Thats garbage IMO


If we only consider QBs that had 200 attempts (so there is at least some sample size) in a season these are his ranks the last 3 years in TD:INT ratio

2012- 12th
2011- 7th
2010- 11th

In INT%
2012- 8th
2011- 6th
2010- 9th

Last year he had only 53 attempts in the red zone. That ranked 21st.

He doesn't get the same opportunities because we decide not only to give the TDs to RBs, but to run as soon as we get into the RZ and only throw on the inevitable 3rd and long. Despite that he was tied for 15th in total passing TDs. (I looked at some of the numbers but didn't do calculations but if my estimation was right he was 12th in TD% in the RZ).

He takes care of the ball fine seeing as he's been in the top 10 the last 3 years, and the TD% is only low because we don't give him opportunities in the RZ. And still his ratio the last 3 years was borderline top 10.

If that's garbage to you then you need to reevaluate your standards.


Have no idea where you got your stats, but Schaub was TIED at 15th last year with 22 tds,

He was 16th in interceptions throw last year, in 2011 he was injured, but 21st in tds thrown....

In Matts BEST year, 2010, he threw only 24 tds and was 12th in the league. And if only considering the people who threw 200 times or more, he was 17th in ints.

Matt is not that good people. He is average, a game manager.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_INTERCEPTIONS&tabSeq=0&season=2010&Submit=Go&experience=&archive=true&statisticCategory=PASSING&conference=null&qualified=false

Look at the stats


He took out players with less than 200 pass attempts.

Schaub has managed the game this past year. But he's shown that he can compete in shoot outs and win. He also helps in that he can throw it down field with much more success than Yates.

When Yates went on that 3-3 run he was 1-20 on 20+ yard passes


I'm inclined to agree there are at least three players more valuable, but let's be honest: Matt Schaub isn't fantastic but he's certainly not Trent Dilfer (worst quarterback to win a Super Bowl IMO). With the talent around him, Schaub is at worst serviceable and at best a strong quarterback.
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ServantofYHWH


Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Posts: 13659
Location: Clutch City
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kurtatx wrote:
ServantofYHWH wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
mse326 wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
I have no reason to not like Schaub, the guy is the qb for my favorite team. I want him to succeed and carry this team, but Im a realist. He simply isn't good enough to win like that. He needs our run game and defense to be great and he can do just enough to get us by. I don't like that. BUT I know right now we've boxed our self into a corner and have no choice.

But to say he is elite or borderline elite is ridiculous. The guy is no where close to being top 10. He has a top 5 wide out, top 8 tight end, top 3 running back, top 10 oline and yet he posts a mere 22 to 12 td:int ratio. Thats garbage IMO


If we only consider QBs that had 200 attempts (so there is at least some sample size) in a season these are his ranks the last 3 years in TD:INT ratio

2012- 12th
2011- 7th
2010- 11th

In INT%
2012- 8th
2011- 6th
2010- 9th

Last year he had only 53 attempts in the red zone. That ranked 21st.

He doesn't get the same opportunities because we decide not only to give the TDs to RBs, but to run as soon as we get into the RZ and only throw on the inevitable 3rd and long. Despite that he was tied for 15th in total passing TDs. (I looked at some of the numbers but didn't do calculations but if my estimation was right he was 12th in TD% in the RZ).

He takes care of the ball fine seeing as he's been in the top 10 the last 3 years, and the TD% is only low because we don't give him opportunities in the RZ. And still his ratio the last 3 years was borderline top 10.

If that's garbage to you then you need to reevaluate your standards.


Have no idea where you got your stats, but Schaub was TIED at 15th last year with 22 tds,

He was 16th in interceptions throw last year, in 2011 he was injured, but 21st in tds thrown....

In Matts BEST year, 2010, he threw only 24 tds and was 12th in the league. And if only considering the people who threw 200 times or more, he was 17th in ints.

Matt is not that good people. He is average, a game manager.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_INTERCEPTIONS&tabSeq=0&season=2010&Submit=Go&experience=&archive=true&statisticCategory=PASSING&conference=null&qualified=false

Look at the stats


He took out players with less than 200 pass attempts.

Schaub has managed the game this past year. But he's shown that he can compete in shoot outs and win. He also helps in that he can throw it down field with much more success than Yates.

When Yates went on that 3-3 run he was 1-20 on 20+ yard passes


I'm inclined to agree there are at least three players more valuable, but let's be honest: Matt Schaub isn't fantastic but he's certainly not Trent Dilfer (worst quarterback to win a Super Bowl IMO). With the talent around him, Schaub is at worst serviceable and at best a strong quarterback.


I guess this question really depends on how you are viewing Schaubs value. If you're looking at him with a league wide view he's somewhere in the middle of the pack to upper middle (or if you're a certain poster he's Tim Tebow without running ability nor leadership Wink )

If you're the Pats his value is a back up QB to Tom Brady. If you are a Jags fan you value him as a QB that can help you get back into contention with the AFC South. If you're a high school JV team you value him as a god. Schaub on the Texans makes you a contender to make the playoffs and give you a shot to make a run to the Super Bowl. Without him we are the Chiefs (from last year) or Jets
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Apollo Stallion


Joined: 06 Feb 2008
Posts: 5521
Location: Battle Red State
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

amazingandre wrote:
mse326 wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
I have no reason to not like Schaub, the guy is the qb for my favorite team. I want him to succeed and carry this team, but Im a realist. He simply isn't good enough to win like that. He needs our run game and defense to be great and he can do just enough to get us by. I don't like that. BUT I know right now we've boxed our self into a corner and have no choice.

But to say he is elite or borderline elite is ridiculous. The guy is no where close to being top 10. He has a top 5 wide out, top 8 tight end, top 3 running back, top 10 oline and yet he posts a mere 22 to 12 td:int ratio. Thats garbage IMO


If we only consider QBs that had 200 attempts (so there is at least some sample size) in a season these are his ranks the last 3 years in TD:INT ratio

2012- 12th
2011- 7th
2010- 11th

In INT%
2012- 8th
2011- 6th
2010- 9th

Last year he had only 53 attempts in the red zone. That ranked 21st.

He doesn't get the same opportunities because we decide not only to give the TDs to RBs, but to run as soon as we get into the RZ and only throw on the inevitable 3rd and long. Despite that he was tied for 15th in total passing TDs. (I looked at some of the numbers but didn't do calculations but if my estimation was right he was 12th in TD% in the RZ).

He takes care of the ball fine seeing as he's been in the top 10 the last 3 years, and the TD% is only low because we don't give him opportunities in the RZ. And still his ratio the last 3 years was borderline top 10.

If that's garbage to you then you need to reevaluate your standards.


Have no idea where you got your stats, but Schaub was TIED at 15th last year with 22 tds,

He was 16th in interceptions throw last year, in 2011 he was injured, but 21st in tds thrown....

In Matts BEST year, 2010, he threw only 24 tds and was 12th in the league. And if only considering the people who threw 200 times or more, he was 17th in ints.

Matt is not that good people. He is average, a game manager.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_INTERCEPTIONS&tabSeq=0&season=2010&Submit=Go&experience=&archive=true&statisticCategory=PASSING&conference=null&qualified=false

Look at the stats


Good god, man. You are better than this.

Ints - you understand that you can't use raw totals as a metric to define a players ability to protect the football, right? Surely you understand that that the # of int's thrown is driven by the # of passes thrown. 10 of the top 15 int throwers of all-time are hall of famers and Favre's spot way atop the list is because he threw 10,169 passes in his career which is nearly 3,000 more passes than Elway.

Schaub has thrown an INT on 2.4% of his pass attempts as a Texan. If he throws 500 passes, he'll throw 12 ints. If he throws 400 he'll throw 10. BTW - The past 3 seasons, he's down to 2.1% Best in NFL history is Rodgers at 1.7. 2nd best is Brady at 2.1%. David Carr is 48th at 3.1%

TDs - I have no idea why you feel this is the sole measure of a great QB. Schaub throws a TD 4.3% of the time he throws a ball. That's better than John Elway, who similarly had RBs punch it in most of his career. Was Troy Aikman incapable of throwing TDs or did he have a great running game who's job it was to punch it in once they got in the red zone? Aikman threw TDs on 3.5% of his attempts and fewer overall than Brad Johnson or Chris Chandler. Again, is AJ inferior to James Jones or are the roles just different?

BTW - Schaub's "best" season was 2009 when he threw 29 TDs with 583 attempts. Let's think hard what has happened since then? Oh yes, a capable running game, a defense, and two playoff appearances. If it's all about AJ, explain how he went 5-2 in 2011 with AJ down including 4 straight wins before he got hurt that included only 1 int and even 2 RUSHING Tds. Seems to me Schaub can put this team on his back when needed.

Your abuse of the "system QB" word is absurd as Brady is a "system QB" too - btw - their system used to actually win Super Bowls when they had balance with a solid defense with the running game punching in TDs. Brady threw 18 - 23 - 28 Tds in his Super Bowl winning seasons (12-14-14 Ints). Manning's "system" had them drafting #3 WRs in the 1st round while we were content with a blocking #2 like Kevin Walter for 6 years. The Texans didn't spend 1 single draft pick in the first 2 rounds on a skill position player in Schaubs first 6 years here, while the Colts used no less than 6 1st rounders for Manning at WR, RB, TE!

By your own standard of "garbage" Flacco shouldn't have won a Super Bowl because he only threw 22 TDs with 10 Ints - but he did (2.2 to 1 ratio). Eli Manning won the year before throwing 29 Tds with 16 ints (1.8 to 1) - identical to Schaub last year... Yep, clearly IMPOSSIBLE.
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Cole416


Joined: 01 Jul 2013
Posts: 761
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ServantofYHWH wrote:
kurtatx wrote:
ServantofYHWH wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
mse326 wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
I have no reason to not like Schaub, the guy is the qb for my favorite team. I want him to succeed and carry this team, but Im a realist. He simply isn't good enough to win like that. He needs our run game and defense to be great and he can do just enough to get us by. I don't like that. BUT I know right now we've boxed our self into a corner and have no choice.

But to say he is elite or borderline elite is ridiculous. The guy is no where close to being top 10. He has a top 5 wide out, top 8 tight end, top 3 running back, top 10 oline and yet he posts a mere 22 to 12 td:int ratio. Thats garbage IMO


If we only consider QBs that had 200 attempts (so there is at least some sample size) in a season these are his ranks the last 3 years in TD:INT ratio

2012- 12th
2011- 7th
2010- 11th

In INT%
2012- 8th
2011- 6th
2010- 9th

Last year he had only 53 attempts in the red zone. That ranked 21st.

He doesn't get the same opportunities because we decide not only to give the TDs to RBs, but to run as soon as we get into the RZ and only throw on the inevitable 3rd and long. Despite that he was tied for 15th in total passing TDs. (I looked at some of the numbers but didn't do calculations but if my estimation was right he was 12th in TD% in the RZ).

He takes care of the ball fine seeing as he's been in the top 10 the last 3 years, and the TD% is only low because we don't give him opportunities in the RZ. And still his ratio the last 3 years was borderline top 10.

If that's garbage to you then you need to reevaluate your standards.


Have no idea where you got your stats, but Schaub was TIED at 15th last year with 22 tds,

He was 16th in interceptions throw last year, in 2011 he was injured, but 21st in tds thrown....

In Matts BEST year, 2010, he threw only 24 tds and was 12th in the league. And if only considering the people who threw 200 times or more, he was 17th in ints.

Matt is not that good people. He is average, a game manager.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_INTERCEPTIONS&tabSeq=0&season=2010&Submit=Go&experience=&archive=true&statisticCategory=PASSING&conference=null&qualified=false

Look at the stats


He took out players with less than 200 pass attempts.

Schaub has managed the game this past year. But he's shown that he can compete in shoot outs and win. He also helps in that he can throw it down field with much more success than Yates.

When Yates went on that 3-3 run he was 1-20 on 20+ yard passes


I'm inclined to agree there are at least three players more valuable, but let's be honest: Matt Schaub isn't fantastic but he's certainly not Trent Dilfer (worst quarterback to win a Super Bowl IMO). With the talent around him, Schaub is at worst serviceable and at best a strong quarterback.


I guess this question really depends on how you are viewing Schaubs value. If you're looking at him with a league wide view he's somewhere in the middle of the pack to upper middle (or if you're a certain poster he's Tim Tebow without running ability nor leadership Wink )

If you're the Pats his value is a back up QB to Tom Brady. If you are a Jags fan you value him as a QB that can help you get back into contention with the AFC South. If you're a high school JV team you value him as a god. Schaub on the Texans makes you a contender to make the playoffs and give you a shot to make a run to the Super Bowl. Without him we are the Chiefs (from last year) or Jets

Lets not go that far Wink! Also, TJ Yates got more wins in 6 games than the Chiefs all season. (If you want to say that "that was 2 years ago" you can by all means). But I will say Schaub is a key productor into this offense but definitely wouldn't make us a 2-14 team with all the players we have.
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ServantofYHWH


Joined: 25 Jan 2010
Posts: 13659
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cole416 wrote:
ServantofYHWH wrote:
kurtatx wrote:
ServantofYHWH wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
mse326 wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
I have no reason to not like Schaub, the guy is the qb for my favorite team. I want him to succeed and carry this team, but Im a realist. He simply isn't good enough to win like that. He needs our run game and defense to be great and he can do just enough to get us by. I don't like that. BUT I know right now we've boxed our self into a corner and have no choice.

But to say he is elite or borderline elite is ridiculous. The guy is no where close to being top 10. He has a top 5 wide out, top 8 tight end, top 3 running back, top 10 oline and yet he posts a mere 22 to 12 td:int ratio. Thats garbage IMO


If we only consider QBs that had 200 attempts (so there is at least some sample size) in a season these are his ranks the last 3 years in TD:INT ratio

2012- 12th
2011- 7th
2010- 11th

In INT%
2012- 8th
2011- 6th
2010- 9th

Last year he had only 53 attempts in the red zone. That ranked 21st.

He doesn't get the same opportunities because we decide not only to give the TDs to RBs, but to run as soon as we get into the RZ and only throw on the inevitable 3rd and long. Despite that he was tied for 15th in total passing TDs. (I looked at some of the numbers but didn't do calculations but if my estimation was right he was 12th in TD% in the RZ).

He takes care of the ball fine seeing as he's been in the top 10 the last 3 years, and the TD% is only low because we don't give him opportunities in the RZ. And still his ratio the last 3 years was borderline top 10.

If that's garbage to you then you need to reevaluate your standards.


Have no idea where you got your stats, but Schaub was TIED at 15th last year with 22 tds,

He was 16th in interceptions throw last year, in 2011 he was injured, but 21st in tds thrown....

In Matts BEST year, 2010, he threw only 24 tds and was 12th in the league. And if only considering the people who threw 200 times or more, he was 17th in ints.

Matt is not that good people. He is average, a game manager.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_INTERCEPTIONS&tabSeq=0&season=2010&Submit=Go&experience=&archive=true&statisticCategory=PASSING&conference=null&qualified=false

Look at the stats


He took out players with less than 200 pass attempts.

Schaub has managed the game this past year. But he's shown that he can compete in shoot outs and win. He also helps in that he can throw it down field with much more success than Yates.

When Yates went on that 3-3 run he was 1-20 on 20+ yard passes


I'm inclined to agree there are at least three players more valuable, but let's be honest: Matt Schaub isn't fantastic but he's certainly not Trent Dilfer (worst quarterback to win a Super Bowl IMO). With the talent around him, Schaub is at worst serviceable and at best a strong quarterback.


I guess this question really depends on how you are viewing Schaubs value. If you're looking at him with a league wide view he's somewhere in the middle of the pack to upper middle (or if you're a certain poster he's Tim Tebow without running ability nor leadership Wink )

If you're the Pats his value is a back up QB to Tom Brady. If you are a Jags fan you value him as a QB that can help you get back into contention with the AFC South. If you're a high school JV team you value him as a god. Schaub on the Texans makes you a contender to make the playoffs and give you a shot to make a run to the Super Bowl. Without him we are the Chiefs (from last year) or Jets

Lets not go that far Wink! Also, TJ Yates got more wins in 6 games than the Chiefs all season. (If you want to say that "that was 2 years ago" you can by all means). But I will say Schaub is a key productor into this offense but definitely wouldn't make us a 2-14 team with all the players we have.


Id prefer Yates take us 2-14 than 4-12. But i gotta give him a little credit.
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kurtatx


Joined: 08 Sep 2013
Posts: 96
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ServantofYHWH wrote:
kurtatx wrote:
ServantofYHWH wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
mse326 wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
I have no reason to not like Schaub, the guy is the qb for my favorite team. I want him to succeed and carry this team, but Im a realist. He simply isn't good enough to win like that. He needs our run game and defense to be great and he can do just enough to get us by. I don't like that. BUT I know right now we've boxed our self into a corner and have no choice.

But to say he is elite or borderline elite is ridiculous. The guy is no where close to being top 10. He has a top 5 wide out, top 8 tight end, top 3 running back, top 10 oline and yet he posts a mere 22 to 12 td:int ratio. Thats garbage IMO


If we only consider QBs that had 200 attempts (so there is at least some sample size) in a season these are his ranks the last 3 years in TD:INT ratio

2012- 12th
2011- 7th
2010- 11th

In INT%
2012- 8th
2011- 6th
2010- 9th

Last year he had only 53 attempts in the red zone. That ranked 21st.

He doesn't get the same opportunities because we decide not only to give the TDs to RBs, but to run as soon as we get into the RZ and only throw on the inevitable 3rd and long. Despite that he was tied for 15th in total passing TDs. (I looked at some of the numbers but didn't do calculations but if my estimation was right he was 12th in TD% in the RZ).

He takes care of the ball fine seeing as he's been in the top 10 the last 3 years, and the TD% is only low because we don't give him opportunities in the RZ. And still his ratio the last 3 years was borderline top 10.

If that's garbage to you then you need to reevaluate your standards.


Have no idea where you got your stats, but Schaub was TIED at 15th last year with 22 tds,

He was 16th in interceptions throw last year, in 2011 he was injured, but 21st in tds thrown....

In Matts BEST year, 2010, he threw only 24 tds and was 12th in the league. And if only considering the people who threw 200 times or more, he was 17th in ints.

Matt is not that good people. He is average, a game manager.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_INTERCEPTIONS&tabSeq=0&season=2010&Submit=Go&experience=&archive=true&statisticCategory=PASSING&conference=null&qualified=false

Look at the stats


He took out players with less than 200 pass attempts.

Schaub has managed the game this past year. But he's shown that he can compete in shoot outs and win. He also helps in that he can throw it down field with much more success than Yates.

When Yates went on that 3-3 run he was 1-20 on 20+ yard passes


I'm inclined to agree there are at least three players more valuable, but let's be honest: Matt Schaub isn't fantastic but he's certainly not Trent Dilfer (worst quarterback to win a Super Bowl IMO). With the talent around him, Schaub is at worst serviceable and at best a strong quarterback.


I guess this question really depends on how you are viewing Schaubs value. If you're looking at him with a league wide view he's somewhere in the middle of the pack to upper middle (or if you're a certain poster he's Tim Tebow without running ability nor leadership Wink )

If you're the Pats his value is a back up QB to Tom Brady. If you are a Jags fan you value him as a QB that can help you get back into contention with the AFC South. If you're a high school JV team you value him as a god. Schaub on the Texans makes you a contender to make the playoffs and give you a shot to make a run to the Super Bowl. Without him we are the Chiefs (from last year) or Jets


The way I see it (and I admit to not knowing a lot), there are two kinds of teams in the NFL: The teams that have a quarterback and the teams that don't. What I mean is, and average to above average quarterback is almost overvalued in the current NFL. You saw it with Tony Romo signing big with the Cowboys, Flacco with the Ravens, you'll see it with Jay Cutler next season. There are about 20(ish?) teams with a real quarterback, and 10 teams with nothing.
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Jacobys Homey


Joined: 05 Mar 2008
Posts: 8859
Location: BU
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apollo Stallion wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
mse326 wrote:
amazingandre wrote:
I have no reason to not like Schaub, the guy is the qb for my favorite team. I want him to succeed and carry this team, but Im a realist. He simply isn't good enough to win like that. He needs our run game and defense to be great and he can do just enough to get us by. I don't like that. BUT I know right now we've boxed our self into a corner and have no choice.

But to say he is elite or borderline elite is ridiculous. The guy is no where close to being top 10. He has a top 5 wide out, top 8 tight end, top 3 running back, top 10 oline and yet he posts a mere 22 to 12 td:int ratio. Thats garbage IMO


If we only consider QBs that had 200 attempts (so there is at least some sample size) in a season these are his ranks the last 3 years in TD:INT ratio

2012- 12th
2011- 7th
2010- 11th

In INT%
2012- 8th
2011- 6th
2010- 9th

Last year he had only 53 attempts in the red zone. That ranked 21st.

He doesn't get the same opportunities because we decide not only to give the TDs to RBs, but to run as soon as we get into the RZ and only throw on the inevitable 3rd and long. Despite that he was tied for 15th in total passing TDs. (I looked at some of the numbers but didn't do calculations but if my estimation was right he was 12th in TD% in the RZ).

He takes care of the ball fine seeing as he's been in the top 10 the last 3 years, and the TD% is only low because we don't give him opportunities in the RZ. And still his ratio the last 3 years was borderline top 10.

If that's garbage to you then you need to reevaluate your standards.


Have no idea where you got your stats, but Schaub was TIED at 15th last year with 22 tds,

He was 16th in interceptions throw last year, in 2011 he was injured, but 21st in tds thrown....

In Matts BEST year, 2010, he threw only 24 tds and was 12th in the league. And if only considering the people who threw 200 times or more, he was 17th in ints.

Matt is not that good people. He is average, a game manager.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_INTERCEPTIONS&tabSeq=0&season=2010&Submit=Go&experience=&archive=true&statisticCategory=PASSING&conference=null&qualified=false

Look at the stats


Good god, man. You are better than this.

Ints - you understand that you can't use raw totals as a metric to define a players ability to protect the football, right? Surely you understand that that the # of int's thrown is driven by the # of passes thrown. 10 of the top 15 int throwers of all-time are hall of famers and Favre's spot way atop the list is because he threw 10,169 passes in his career which is nearly 3,000 more passes than Elway.

Schaub has thrown an INT on 2.4% of his pass attempts as a Texan. If he throws 500 passes, he'll throw 12 ints. If he throws 400 he'll throw 10. BTW - The past 3 seasons, he's down to 2.1% Best in NFL history is Rodgers at 1.7. 2nd best is Brady at 2.1%. David Carr is 48th at 3.1%

TDs - I have no idea why you feel this is the sole measure of a great QB. Schaub throws a TD 4.3% of the time he throws a ball. That's better than John Elway, who similarly had RBs punch it in most of his career. Was Troy Aikman incapable of throwing TDs or did he have a great running game who's job it was to punch it in once they got in the red zone? Aikman threw TDs on 3.5% of his attempts and fewer overall than Brad Johnson or Chris Chandler. Again, is AJ inferior to James Jones or are the roles just different?

BTW - Schaub's "best" season was 2009 when he threw 29 TDs with 583 attempts. Let's think hard what has happened since then? Oh yes, a capable running game, a defense, and two playoff appearances. If it's all about AJ, explain how he went 5-2 in 2011 with AJ down including 4 straight wins before he got hurt that included only 1 int and even 2 RUSHING Tds. Seems to me Schaub can put this team on his back when needed.

Your abuse of the "system QB" word is absurd as Brady is a "system QB" too - btw - their system used to actually win Super Bowls when they had balance with a solid defense with the running game punching in TDs. Brady threw 18 - 23 - 28 Tds in his Super Bowl winning seasons (12-14-14 Ints). Manning's "system" had them drafting #3 WRs in the 1st round while we were content with a blocking #2 like Kevin Walter for 6 years. The Texans didn't spend 1 single draft pick in the first 2 rounds on a skill position player in Schaubs first 6 years here, while the Colts used no less than 6 1st rounders for Manning at WR, RB, TE!

By your own standard of "garbage" Flacco shouldn't have won a Super Bowl because he only threw 22 TDs with 10 Ints - but he did (2.2 to 1 ratio). Eli Manning won the year before throwing 29 Tds with 16 ints (1.8 to 1) - identical to Schaub last year... Yep, clearly IMPOSSIBLE.


Ax2 pls respond
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amazingandre


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i was asleep and just woke up, will respond to this later. Possibly tomorrow
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amazingandre


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL, not his fault?
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