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Falcons sign former Bucs OT Jeremy Trueblood; Cut Jones
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SpoonFed56


Joined: 11 Jan 2013
Posts: 1711
Location: GA
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BeeperKing wrote:
RIZE FALCONS wrote:
Brick wall Can't we just have a guy do his job instead of getting another guy cut by another team to push him to do the job the other guy was drafted to do its a vicious circle!!!



We can't hit on everything, you know....


Seems like we can never "hit" on any lineman. Holmes was a 3rd round pick and has looked putrid this preseason. Yes, I know it takes time but I mean the guy has looked a lot worse than you would come to expect from a third rounder. Baker just got decent last year. Konz was not spectacular last year at RG and is unproven at his natural position of Center. TD isn't really famous for drafting blue-chip talent on the O or D lines.

Rich McKay drafted Babs our best DLman. And I wouldn't even consider him blue-chip talent to be honest. We need an elite presence on both the OL and DL.

If there is going to be a downfall to our team this year, it is going to be the lack of talent across the board on the offensive and defensive lines. Of course I would love for us to do great again this year, and I'm almost positive we are a lock for the playoffs, but we have a very tough schedule (@GB, @SF, hosting SEA, hosting NE just to name a few). I've said it before and I will say it again. Football starts up front. We can have all the skill position players in the world (and we pretty much do), but without a solid OL, it really doesn't matter. Ryan is not mobile. He is the classic, throw-back pocket passer. Luckily he has a very quick release. I am not trying to be negative, just trying to look at this from a non-biased standpoint.
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GSUeagles14


Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 5784
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SpoonFed56 wrote:
BeeperKing wrote:
RIZE FALCONS wrote:
Brick wall Can't we just have a guy do his job instead of getting another guy cut by another team to push him to do the job the other guy was drafted to do its a vicious circle!!!



We can't hit on everything, you know....


Seems like we can never "hit" on any lineman. Holmes was a 3rd round pick and has looked putrid this preseason. Yes, I know it takes time but I mean the guy has looked a lot worse than you would come to expect from a third rounder. Baker just got decent last year. Konz was not spectacular last year at RG and is unproven at his natural position of Center. TD isn't really famous for drafting blue-chip talent on the O or D lines.

Rich McKay drafted Babs our best DLman. And I wouldn't even consider him blue-chip talent to be honest. We need an elite presence on both the OL and DL.

If there is going to be a downfall to our team this year, it is going to be the lack of talent across the board on the offensive and defensive lines. Of course I would love for us to do great again this year, and I'm almost positive we are a lock for the playoffs, but we have a very tough schedule (@GB, @SF, hosting SEA, hosting NE just to name a few). I've said it before and I will say it again. Football starts up front. We can have all the skill position players in the world (and we pretty much do), but without a solid OL, it really doesn't matter. Ryan is not mobile. He is the classic, throw-back pocket passer. Luckily he has a very quick release. I am not trying to be negative, just trying to look at this from a non-biased standpoint.


Judgin 2 2nd year lineman already, one he really hasnt played and the other out of position is just stupid. Baker has been well above decent, his issues have been health related.

Biermann is pretty good, Peters is very good and a bunch of guys who can do something. We dont know yet so i just dont get the complaining.
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SpoonFed56


Joined: 11 Jan 2013
Posts: 1711
Location: GA
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GSUeagles14 wrote:
SpoonFed56 wrote:
BeeperKing wrote:
RIZE FALCONS wrote:
Brick wall Can't we just have a guy do his job instead of getting another guy cut by another team to push him to do the job the other guy was drafted to do its a vicious circle!!!



We can't hit on everything, you know....


Seems like we can never "hit" on any lineman. Holmes was a 3rd round pick and has looked putrid this preseason. Yes, I know it takes time but I mean the guy has looked a lot worse than you would come to expect from a third rounder. Baker just got decent last year. Konz was not spectacular last year at RG and is unproven at his natural position of Center. TD isn't really famous for drafting blue-chip talent on the O or D lines.

Rich McKay drafted Babs our best DLman. And I wouldn't even consider him blue-chip talent to be honest. We need an elite presence on both the OL and DL.

If there is going to be a downfall to our team this year, it is going to be the lack of talent across the board on the offensive and defensive lines. Of course I would love for us to do great again this year, and I'm almost positive we are a lock for the playoffs, but we have a very tough schedule (@GB, @SF, hosting SEA, hosting NE just to name a few). I've said it before and I will say it again. Football starts up front. We can have all the skill position players in the world (and we pretty much do), but without a solid OL, it really doesn't matter. Ryan is not mobile. He is the classic, throw-back pocket passer. Luckily he has a very quick release. I am not trying to be negative, just trying to look at this from a non-biased standpoint.


Judgin 2 2nd year lineman already, one he really hasnt played and the other out of position is just stupid. Baker has been well above decent, his issues have been health related.

Biermann is pretty good, Peters is very good and a bunch of guys who can do something. We dont know yet so i just dont get the complaining.


Baker wasn't "well above decent" until last season. Okay, so his issues were health realted... and? What's your point? He did not perform like you would expect a first round LT to perform up until last season. Hell, he was almost cut IIRC. I saw an interview with Baker and he that Smitty sat down with him and basically laid it all out in front of him. Saying Peters is very good is a bit homerish, Peters is above average IF he can return to 2011 form. Beirmann belongs at LB. He can provide some splash plays here and there. Not to say that I do not like the Beer-Man, he is a key piece to our defensive scheme. I like him in the "joker role" that Nolan uses him in. But you're not understanding what I'm saying. Beirmann is not a blue-chip defensive player. Spoon is the closest thing we have to a superstar on defense. Willy-Mo and DeCoud are extremely underrated. Our Secondary is solid, just need to give our Rookie corners time to jell. I like our LB corps now that Bartu/Worrilow are on the team. The final thing TD really needs to do is bolster the OL/DL.
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GSUeagles14


Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 5784
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SpoonFed56 wrote:
GSUeagles14 wrote:
SpoonFed56 wrote:
BeeperKing wrote:
RIZE FALCONS wrote:
Brick wall Can't we just have a guy do his job instead of getting another guy cut by another team to push him to do the job the other guy was drafted to do its a vicious circle!!!



We can't hit on everything, you know....


Seems like we can never "hit" on any lineman. Holmes was a 3rd round pick and has looked putrid this preseason. Yes, I know it takes time but I mean the guy has looked a lot worse than you would come to expect from a third rounder. Baker just got decent last year. Konz was not spectacular last year at RG and is unproven at his natural position of Center. TD isn't really famous for drafting blue-chip talent on the O or D lines.

Rich McKay drafted Babs our best DLman. And I wouldn't even consider him blue-chip talent to be honest. We need an elite presence on both the OL and DL.

If there is going to be a downfall to our team this year, it is going to be the lack of talent across the board on the offensive and defensive lines. Of course I would love for us to do great again this year, and I'm almost positive we are a lock for the playoffs, but we have a very tough schedule (@GB, @SF, hosting SEA, hosting NE just to name a few). I've said it before and I will say it again. Football starts up front. We can have all the skill position players in the world (and we pretty much do), but without a solid OL, it really doesn't matter. Ryan is not mobile. He is the classic, throw-back pocket passer. Luckily he has a very quick release. I am not trying to be negative, just trying to look at this from a non-biased standpoint.


Judgin 2 2nd year lineman already, one he really hasnt played and the other out of position is just stupid. Baker has been well above decent, his issues have been health related.

Biermann is pretty good, Peters is very good and a bunch of guys who can do something. We dont know yet so i just dont get the complaining.


Baker wasn't "well above decent" until last season. Okay, so his issues were health realted... and? What's your point? He did not perform like you would expect a first round LT to perform up until last season. Hell, he was almost cut IIRC. I saw an interview with Baker and he that Smitty sat down with him and basically laid it all out in front of him. Beirmann belongs at LB. He can provide some splash plays here and there, but like I originally said, not blue-chip talent. Saying Peters is very good is a bit homerish, Peters is above average IF he can return to 2011 form.


Bakers clearly a hit, thats my point. Hes average at worst and is line to be a 10 year starter. His first two years in the league he was very good, then he got injured. Now he may not be the probowler he looked to be for a while early on, but hes a solid LT.

Biermann absolutely does not belong at LBer. Id like to hear why you think so. Hes fine there in a hybrid defense and the value is maximized because of it, but he would be exposed as a full time 4-3 LBer.

And Peters is very good. He is near elite against the run and can provide a pretty decent pass rush as well. Just because he missed a lot of time last year doesnt mean that changed
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ShockdAtFalcons


Joined: 15 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Complaining about Baker not playing good enough to justify his being picked in the first round is silly.

There are SEVERAL "franchise tackles" that have been drafted in the top 10 overall (well above baker) in the past five years that have played so atrociously they're getting cut multiple times every offseason, desperate just to get a backup spot. Baker, while he struggled with injuries, is definitely a HIT at left tackle and has proven to be much better than many "franchise left tackles" drafted well before him.

Holmes did not get to play at all last season so he's essentially a rookie, and we don't really know how good Konz is at center last year, so it really is too early to tell.

What I'm worried about is our RG situation, where Reynolds has had multiple chances to prove his worth and has caved at nearly every opportunity he's given.

The truth is we simply haven't invested 1st round picks into our lines, because history has shown just how easily "blue chip players" at those positions can bust.
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tech2186


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems that the rationale here is that TD doesn't place an interest in drafting OL/DL players in the first and 2nd rounds of the draft because of high bust potential?? I don't agree with that. For all the good things TD has done for this franchise in terms of drafting and FA pick ups, he has clearly shown that his talent for finding top end Dline and Oline players is not there.

Look at the Dline and Oline players he has drafted since 2008. How many have been to the pro-bowl or could even be considered a top 5 player at their position?? Sam Baker????? No way. He is an above average LT and that is all. Players like Jerry, Reynolds, Johnson, Hawley, Sidbury, Walker, etc just weren't impactful enough. The only player on the D-line that has performed past his expectations was Kroy. And I don't believe we have ever brought in a FA Olineman to start here. Dline FA in Ray Edwards was a complete failure.

This team has had a history of being sub-par in the trenches under TD. And the legacy continues. Will it change? It doesn't appear so right now. But to pretend like TD has not failed to secure this team with top level talent in the trenches is complete denial.
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SpoonFed56


Joined: 11 Jan 2013
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tech2186 wrote:
It seems that the rationale here is that TD doesn't place an interest in drafting OL/DL players in the first and 2nd rounds of the draft because of high bust potential?? I don't agree with that. For all the good things TD has done for this franchise in terms of drafting and FA pick ups, he has clearly shown that his talent for finding top end Dline and Oline players is not there.

Look at the Dline and Oline players he has drafted since 2008. How many have been to the pro-bowl or could even be considered a top 5 player at their position?? Sam Baker????? No way. He is an above average LT and that is all. Players like Jerry, Reynolds, Johnson, Hawley, Sidbury, Walker, etc just weren't impactful enough. The only player on the D-line that has performed past his expectations was Kroy. And I don't believe we have ever brought in a FA Olineman to start here. Dline FA in Ray Edwards was a complete failure.

This team has had a history of being sub-par in the trenches under TD. And the legacy continues. Will it change? It doesn't appear so right now. But to pretend like TD has not failed to secure this team with top level talent in the trenches is complete denial.


THIS.

Some of you guys' homerism is seriously laughable. Look at this from a nonbiased standpoint. Jerry was a complete whiff. He should've been cut a long time ago, but doing so would make TD look bad because Jerry was a first round draft pick. That and the fact that Smitty is known to be loyal to somewhat of a demise to his players. We have given Jerry every possible chance to "step up" and he has underwhelmed. He is gone next season. Holmes has looked atrocious, but okay I will give him some "time"... GSU- you're still missing my point. Stop letting your homerism affect your view on our trenches. Baker, if healthy is above average at best. You act like Baker is some elite LT or something? He isn't bad by no means when healthy, but stop blowing things out of proportion and claiming he is some superstar. TD needs to obtain more talent across the OL and DL this next offseason. Here's to hoping we did enough this year to make another deep playoff run. Again, you take it as me complaining, when in fact I am simply stating facts from a non-biased standpoint.
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terrell123


Joined: 08 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GSUeagles14 wrote:
SpoonFed56 wrote:
BeeperKing wrote:
RIZE FALCONS wrote:
Brick wall Can't we just have a guy do his job instead of getting another guy cut by another team to push him to do the job the other guy was drafted to do its a vicious circle!!!



We can't hit on everything, you know....


Seems like we can never "hit" on any lineman. Holmes was a 3rd round pick and has looked putrid this preseason. Yes, I know it takes time but I mean the guy has looked a lot worse than you would come to expect from a third rounder. Baker just got decent last year. Konz was not spectacular last year at RG and is unproven at his natural position of Center. TD isn't really famous for drafting blue-chip talent on the O or D lines.

Rich McKay drafted Babs our best DLman. And I wouldn't even consider him blue-chip talent to be honest. We need an elite presence on both the OL and DL.

If there is going to be a downfall to our team this year, it is going to be the lack of talent across the board on the offensive and defensive lines. Of course I would love for us to do great again this year, and I'm almost positive we are a lock for the playoffs, but we have a very tough schedule (@GB, @SF, hosting SEA, hosting NE just to name a few). I've said it before and I will say it again. Football starts up front. We can have all the skill position players in the world (and we pretty much do), but without a solid OL, it really doesn't matter. Ryan is not mobile. He is the classic, throw-back pocket passer. Luckily he has a very quick release. I am not trying to be negative, just trying to look at this from a non-biased standpoint.


Judgin 2 2nd year lineman already, one he really hasnt played and the other out of position is just stupid. Baker has been well above decent, his issues have been health related.

Biermann is pretty good, Peters is very good and a bunch of guys who can do something. We dont know yet so i just dont get the complaining.
You do know that Baker had health concerns BEFORE TD TRADED UP for him, right? And Peters has been "very" good? If you say so.... If you compare him to Peria BUST Jerry then I guess you could say that, considering PJ was another wasted 1st rd pick. Our best Olineman and Dlineman were drafted by Rich Mckay.....Not good.
Good picks by TD in 6 yrs imo are as follows:
Ryan(gr8 pick but an easy pick. Our qb was in jail), Julio(gr8 pick), Spoon(gr8 pick), Moore(gr8 pick) Decoud(good pick). Biermann(good pick, considering he was a 5th rdr))
That's about it.
No legit olineman or dlineman in 6 years(Jerry, Peters(soso) Reynolds, Hawley, Johnson, Konz(the weakest olineman in his class btw)? Holmes in the 3rd? It starts up front. Being saying it for years.
No top cb in 6 years(Franks, Middleton, Owens(3rd rdr), etc...
Still holding my breath on Trufant(our latest 1st rdr) and Alford.
Btw, Peters woulda been there in the 4th. Possibly the 5th rd) No need to take him in the 3rd.
TD is good, but not the genius some of you act like he is.
If your gonna have bad cb's you better have a good Dline.(NOT)
And our skill positions don't mean a thing if you cant protect your qb.
Next years draft should be ALL Olineman and Dlineman.
Just my 2 cents.
Go Falcons!
Btw, FANS complain. Why do you always have a problem with complaints?? Especially when we keep getting ousted in the Playoffs.(embarrassed by GB, embarrassed by NY, blown leads vs Seattle and San Fran, etc........................
Reg season champs don't mean a thing. I want to see a championship in Atlanta before Im dead, And as long as they keep putting out mediocre Olines and Dlines, I just don't see it happening anytime soon. And Ryan being sacked 5 times in the "dress rehearsal" only added fuel to the fire.
If I didn't know any better, Id think TD Came from Indianapolis, not NE. As I see the Colts way, and not the Patriot way when I look at the Falcons.
Manning/Ryan
Harrison/Roddy
Wayne/Julio
Freeney/Abe(Osi)
Mathis(Babs)
Sanders/Moore
And a bunch of avg players = a lot of great regular seasons.
Of course, I hope Im wrong. Ok, Im done complaining. lol
Go Birds!
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scar988


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trueblood's not starting though...

Holmes will.
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DrawABlank


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scar988 wrote:
Trueblood's not starting though...

Holmes will.


Agreed, at least in the short term.

----

On the broader debate about building the trenches vs. building up exceptional strengths, I wouldn't have done it TD's way myself - I would have certainly have drafted DL and OL higher in the draft.

However, the results have been pretty good so far. Once you get to the playoffs, it's really a bit of a lottery who wins - cf the 12 Ravens/11 Giants/08 Cards - even the best teams this year can't be considered more than 20% likely to win the SB (if you disagree, I'll happily take bets). So I'm willing to show a bit of patience and let it play out.

After several years of watching sporadic highlights and entirely lost seasons, I'm ok with watching compentency, even if it is a bit bland and promises so much more than it delivers.
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GSUeagles14


Joined: 21 Jan 2011
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SpoonFed56 wrote:
tech2186 wrote:
It seems that the rationale here is that TD doesn't place an interest in drafting OL/DL players in the first and 2nd rounds of the draft because of high bust potential?? I don't agree with that. For all the good things TD has done for this franchise in terms of drafting and FA pick ups, he has clearly shown that his talent for finding top end Dline and Oline players is not there.

Look at the Dline and Oline players he has drafted since 2008. How many have been to the pro-bowl or could even be considered a top 5 player at their position?? Sam Baker????? No way. He is an above average LT and that is all. Players like Jerry, Reynolds, Johnson, Hawley, Sidbury, Walker, etc just weren't impactful enough. The only player on the D-line that has performed past his expectations was Kroy. And I don't believe we have ever brought in a FA Olineman to start here. Dline FA in Ray Edwards was a complete failure.

This team has had a history of being sub-par in the trenches under TD. And the legacy continues. Will it change? It doesn't appear so right now. But to pretend like TD has not failed to secure this team with top level talent in the trenches is complete denial.


THIS.

Some of you guys' homerism is seriously laughable. Look at this from a nonbiased standpoint. Jerry was a complete whiff. He should've been cut a long time ago, but doing so would make TD look bad because Jerry was a first round draft pick. That and the fact that Smitty is known to be loyal to somewhat of a demise to his players. We have given Jerry every possible chance to "step up" and he has underwhelmed. He is gone next season. Holmes has looked atrocious, but okay I will give him some "time"... GSU- you're still missing my point. Stop letting your homerism affect your view on our trenches. Baker, if healthy is above average at best. You act like Baker is some elite LT or something? He isn't bad by no means when healthy, but stop blowing things out of proportion and claiming he is some superstar. TD needs to obtain more talent across the OL and DL this next offseason. Here's to hoping we did enough this year to make another deep playoff run. Again, you take it as me complaining, when in fact I am simply stating facts from a non-biased standpoint.


It has nothing to do with homerism. Im stating facts as well. Where did I ever call Baker elite, or even hint that he was? Seriously, point it out.

We dont have a top 10 player on either side, that doesnt mean the position was ignored or TD cant judge goold OL/DL talent. Youre the one trying to judge unknowns and say they were misses and the fact is we dont know yet. So dont say its unbiased cause its simply not.

Also, Jerry is not a complete whiff. Hes serviceable, obviously not up to expectations but not a complete bust. Another biased stand point.


Last edited by GSUeagles14 on Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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GSUeagles14


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scar988 wrote:
Trueblood's not starting though...

Holmes will.


This is almost worse than the Peter Konz was drafted to be a guard thing.

We all realize Holmes will get 1st crack, doesnt mean he will keep his job. If he performs better than great, if not we have a decent starter behind him.
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scar988


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GSU Eat a -.
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scar988


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DrawABlank wrote:
scar988 wrote:
Trueblood's not starting though...

Holmes will.


Agreed, at least in the short term.

----

On the broader debate about building the trenches vs. building up exceptional strengths, I wouldn't have done it TD's way myself - I would have certainly have drafted DL and OL higher in the draft.

However, the results have been pretty good so far. Once you get to the playoffs, it's really a bit of a lottery who wins - cf the 12 Ravens/11 Giants/08 Cards - even the best teams this year can't be considered more than 20% likely to win the SB (if you disagree, I'll happily take bets). So I'm willing to show a bit of patience and let it play out.

After several years of watching sporadic highlights and entirely lost seasons, I'm ok with watching compentency, even if it is a bit bland and promises so much more than it delivers.

Short term yes. However, don't be shocked to see Schraeder get a chance over Trueblood.
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GSUeagles14


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

scar988 wrote:
GSU Eat a -.


These kinds of comments are not wanted or tolerated here.
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