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Would We Benefit If Costa Starts @ C and Frederick @ RG?
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Dirk Gently


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The interior line is visibly better with him in, especially with stunts.
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htfryar


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
I find it amazing how we talk about Frederick like he's a savvy NFL vet even though he hasn't played a snap yet.. I can't remember the last rookie we had who got that kind of immediate respect. I hope he lives up to those expectations.


He has looked very good thus far through four preseason games.


I agree. I feel the same way. It feels like he's played a lot of NFL football. I'm not even especially excited to see him because it feels like he's been around. It's just a weird feeling. Tyron, Dez, Ware, etc. didn't have that kind of respect this early.


The reason everyone is so confident in Frederick is because there were no major question marks surrounding him as a prospect. You can't say the same about most of our other high picks in the last several years.

2005 - Ware was from a small school and was changing positions. Spears was an unathletic player with not much college production.
2006 - Carpenter had scheme questions as well as product of the system concerns.
2007 - Spencer was changing positions and didn't have great production in college.
2008 - Felix was a backup RB who had a few injuries in highschool and college. Jenkins was a small school player who hadn't faced elite competition.
2009 - 'nuff said
2010 - Dez hadn't played in almost a year and had character concerns. Lee had injury issues.
2011 - Tyron was undersized and raw. Carter had injury issues.
2012 - Mo had no question marks. He was the top rated player at his position and came from a big school with a trafition of producing quality players.
2013 - Frederick is the same as Mo.
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Tony7188


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

htfryar wrote:
Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
I find it amazing how we talk about Frederick like he's a savvy NFL vet even though he hasn't played a snap yet.. I can't remember the last rookie we had who got that kind of immediate respect. I hope he lives up to those expectations.


He has looked very good thus far through four preseason games.


I agree. I feel the same way. It feels like he's played a lot of NFL football. I'm not even especially excited to see him because it feels like he's been around. It's just a weird feeling. Tyron, Dez, Ware, etc. didn't have that kind of respect this early.


The reason everyone is so confident in Frederick is because there were no major question marks surrounding him as a prospect. You can't say the same about most of our other high picks in the last several years.

2011 - Tyron was undersized and raw. Carter had injury issues.
2012 - Mo had no question marks. He was the top rated player at his position and came from a big school with a trafition of producing quality players.
2013 - Frederick is the same as Mo.


There were major question marks about Frederick. That's why "analysts" considered him a 3rd round prospect. He's slow, struggles to get to blocks on the second level and is on the ground too much. Mo was touted as being the next shutdown corner. Travis wasn't looked to be that special at C.

I think the reason why people are so confident in Travis Frederick is that he's smart and tough. Due to the OL being so bad the last couple of years (especially the center carousel and low snaps we had last year) it's only natural that people are excited. Romo will finally get more time to throw in the pocket.
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Nextyearfordaboyz


Joined: 11 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

htfryar wrote:
Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
Desperado82 wrote:
Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
I find it amazing how we talk about Frederick like he's a savvy NFL vet even though he hasn't played a snap yet.. I can't remember the last rookie we had who got that kind of immediate respect. I hope he lives up to those expectations.


He has looked very good thus far through four preseason games.


I agree. I feel the same way. It feels like he's played a lot of NFL football. I'm not even especially excited to see him because it feels like he's been around. It's just a weird feeling. Tyron, Dez, Ware, etc. didn't have that kind of respect this early.


The reason everyone is so confident in Frederick is because there were no major question marks surrounding him as a prospect. You can't say the same about most of our other high picks in the last several years.

2005 - Ware was from a small school and was changing positions. Spears was an unathletic player with not much college production.
2006 - Carpenter had scheme questions as well as product of the system concerns.
2007 - Spencer was changing positions and didn't have great production in college.
2008 - Felix was a backup RB who had a few injuries in highschool and college. Jenkins was a small school player who hadn't faced elite competition.
2009 - 'nuff said
2010 - Dez hadn't played in almost a year and had character concerns. Lee had injury issues.
2011 - Tyron was undersized and raw. Carter had injury issues.
2012 - Mo had no question marks. He was the top rated player at his position and came from a big school with a trafition of producing quality players.
2013 - Frederick is the same as Mo.


I agree that Frederick is worth the hype. I wasn't questioning it, just trying to state how rare it is.

But I think Frederick has it even more-so than Mo. Mo missed a lot of preseason work with his injury. I think people were more anxious to see how he'd preform, and didn't really have this feeling like his side of the field would be on lockdown as a rookie.

Frederick just feels like he's been here for 5 years, and there is no concern. That's a great feeling.
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the lone star


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welp, we got Waters after all.

No need to look into this idea any further. We should be fine now.
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the lone star


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
I find it amazing how we talk about Frederick like he's a savvy NFL vet even though he hasn't played a snap yet.. I can't remember the last rookie we had who got that kind of immediate respect. I hope he lives up to those expectations.


I'm not talking about him as if he's a savvy vet so much as that I don't want any part of Costa. I have more faith in an unproven rookie than I do a proven veteran failure.


I'm guessing you want to cut Costa then, huh?
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the lone star


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
There is no benefit to having Costa play, period. Other than LT, I would argue that C is the most important position on the o-line because of the multiple responsibilities with that position, so why would we want to play a guy there whom we know has no ability and move a guy whom we know has ability to a lesser position? I'm not sure I understand the rationale.


We know for sure Costa > Bernadeau or Ryan Cook

So plugging him there and Frederick at RG would improve us over last year's line for sure. Improvement is key.

It's all moot now that we got Waters.
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the lone star


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheTechnician wrote:
Frederick looked lost at guard IMO. He doesn't have the athleticism to do well there. In case of injury its nice that he can slide over there, but his real position is center and I think we are going to love him at that position for the next decade.


Thing is, Free was lost at RG too and he doesn't really have the athleticism to play there either.

I have more faith in Frederick at RG than Free.

But like I said, we got Waters, which is what I repeatedly said was our #1 option.

Glad it all worked out.
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matt79511


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with NYFDB. For whatever reason, Frederick just feels like a veteran. I don't know if it's his intelligence, toughness, coming from Wisconsin, no health woes, or some combination thereof. I'm not expecting dominance, but it just SEEMS like he's got that position locked down, more so than any other offensive lineman, including Smith.
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the lone star


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

matt79511 wrote:
I agree with NYFDB. For whatever reason, Frederick just feels like a veteran. I don't know if it's his intelligence, toughness, coming from Wisconsin, no health woes, or some combination thereof. I'm not expecting dominance, but it just SEEMS like he's got that position locked down, more so than any other offensive lineman, including Smith.


Agreed. He's gonna be a remarkable pro.
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SHSTE92


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SHSTE92 wrote:
Smith-Leary-Frederick-Free Agent-Free

That's our best option right now sadly.

As for stats:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8256646/nfl-scouts-inc-2012-top-center-rankings

For those without Insider: Rank 27 Phil Costa Cowboys Age 25 Height 6-3 Wieght 307 Grade 70

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1052850-br-nfl-1000-top-32-centers/page/4

Ranked 30th, 50 points (Top center gained 85 points).


Someone looks like he had insider info Laughing
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the lone star wrote:
plan9misfit wrote:
There is no benefit to having Costa play, period. Other than LT, I would argue that C is the most important position on the o-line because of the multiple responsibilities with that position, so why would we want to play a guy there whom we know has no ability and move a guy whom we know has ability to a lesser position? I'm not sure I understand the rationale.


We know for sure Costa > Bernadeau or Ryan Cook

So plugging him there and Frederick at RG would improve us over last year's line for sure. Improvement is key.

It's all moot now that we got Waters.


Why would you want to plug Costa in at C when he has already proven to be a massive liability at that position? Because he's better than an OG in Burnindeuce or a washed up nobody in Cook? I fail to see the logic here. If he's a better OG than the one we have, then play him at OG, but don't put him at C when we know he can't play the position.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SHSTE92 wrote:
SHSTE92 wrote:
Smith-Leary-Frederick-Free Agent-Free

That's our best option right now sadly.

As for stats:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8256646/nfl-scouts-inc-2012-top-center-rankings

For those without Insider: Rank 27 Phil Costa Cowboys Age 25 Height 6-3 Wieght 307 Grade 70

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1052850-br-nfl-1000-top-32-centers/page/4

Ranked 30th, 50 points (Top center gained 85 points).


Someone looks like he had insider info Laughing


So, Lone Star, I'll ask again, why would you want to put Costa at Center when he's ranked in the bottom 5 of starting Centers in the entire league? It's the second most important position on the offensive line and you'd prefer to put one of the worst players in the league there ahead of a rookie? Play the rookie. Because, at worst, the production will be the same.
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textaz03


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i just ended this hour long battle on twitter with some idiot saying that Free was much better at LT than Smith and that Garrett should switch them back to Free at LT and Smith at RT. SMFH!!!
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

textaz03 wrote:
i just ended this hour long battle on twitter with some idiot saying that Free was much better at LT than Smith and that Garrett should switch them back to Free at LT and Smith at RT. SMFH!!!


Was the guy a Giants fan?
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