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Would We Benefit If Costa Starts @ C and Frederick @ RG?
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the lone star


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:54 am    Post subject: Would We Benefit If Costa Starts @ C and Frederick @ RG? Reply with quote

I know we've all pondered this and Calvin Watkins even fielded a question like this a while back (but with him, there's a lot of ducking and diving with numerous, sharp, defensive, and mostly rhetorical questions intertwined in there), but I really want to get a general opinion on this.

Not having Costa out there last season really showed me how valuable he can be for us in the run game. Watching the likes of Bernadeau, Free, and others struggle at RG really has me concerned about that spot.

I know that Frederick would be a monster there too, with Costa providing us decent coverage at C.

I mean, if we are gonna try Free at RG, then why not try this?
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SHSTE92


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1) Frederick looked much better at C then Guard. Honestly Free might have a chance to preform equal to Frederick at C. Why have two average position rather then just being good at center.

2) Frederick's ability to make line calls is vastly improved over Costa and a very important trait.

3) I have NO idea where this Costa improved anything idea comes from. Before I call you wrong I'd love to see some clips or articles that say otherwise.
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the lone star


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SHSTE92 wrote:
1) Frederick looked much better at C then Guard. Honestly Free might have a chance to preform equal to Frederick at C. Why have two average position rather then just being good at center.

2) Frederick's ability to make line calls is vastly improved over Costa and a very important trait.

3) I have NO idea where this Costa improved anything idea comes from. Before I call you wrong I'd love to see some clips or articles that say otherwise.


Agreed, but RG is pretty bad right now. Free has potential there I guess, but tat might take some time, and what if Parnell goes down or needs an extended break? I know the same applies to what would we do if we lose any starter at any spot on either side of the ball, but like I always preach, flexibility is key. Frederick was touted as a versatile guy when we drafted him. I would say that he definitely has a higher ceiling at RG than Free.

I could be wrong about #3 from a statistical standpoint, but I did notice that Murray was able to go up the middle a bit better when he was out there vs. Cook and Bernadeau last year. I know the guy gets a lot of hate around here, but last year, he was our best internal option at C. That says something to me. The snap count issue against Bowen and the Redskins is a thing of the past as far as I'm concerned.

This is an honest, innocent question, but do you (or anybody else) have stats from last season for our run production when Costa was out there vs. when he wasn't? It also depends on the opponent, that's for sure, but that'd be something fun for all of us to look at I think.

You got a great point about #2 though. I was thinking that when I posted the question, but the student in me had to ask it anyway.

Overall, I still think our best solution is to get Waters or somebody else in free agency, but I just wanted to revisit this again.
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SHSTE92


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smith-Leary-Frederick-Free Agent-Free

That's our best option right now sadly.

As for stats:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8256646/nfl-scouts-inc-2012-top-center-rankings

For those without Insider: Rank 27 Phil Costa Cowboys Age 25 Height 6-3 Wieght 307 Grade 70

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1052850-br-nfl-1000-top-32-centers/page/4

Ranked 30th, 50 points (Top center gained 85 points).
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the lone star


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SHSTE92 wrote:
Smith-Leary-Frederick-Free Agent-Free

That's our best option right now sadly.

As for stats:

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8256646/nfl-scouts-inc-2012-top-center-rankings

For those without Insider: Rank 27 Phil Costa Cowboys Age 25 Height 6-3 Wieght 307 Grade 70

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1052850-br-nfl-1000-top-32-centers/page/4

Ranked 30th, 50 points (Top center gained 85 points).


Both of these were written prior to the start of the 2012 season. I know that Costa had limited snaps last year, but I think he improved a lot.

The data from 2012 might be too small of a sample size though, so I guess this is all we got....


I agree with your assessment in bold though. Let's hope we get somebody good for that RG spot. Romo, Murray, and co. will need it.
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TheTechnician


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frederick looked lost at guard IMO. He doesn't have the athleticism to do well there. In case of injury its nice that he can slide over there, but his real position is center and I think we are going to love him at that position for the next decade.
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Dirk Gently


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with all these manipulation s is they weaken two spots.

I believe you'll see Leary and Bernadeau as starters and Parnell and Costa as game day actives. If something happens to Fred, Costa goes in. Anything else, and Parnell goes in, with Free moving inside if the damage is at guard.

If a guard is still needed the next week, it'll be Arkin. This lets them only activate 7on game day.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no benefit to having Costa play, period. Other than LT, I would argue that C is the most important position on the o-line because of the multiple responsibilities with that position, so why would we want to play a guy there whom we know has no ability and move a guy whom we know has ability to a lesser position? I'm not sure I understand the rationale.
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htfryar


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

plan9misfit wrote:
There is no benefit to having Costa play, period. Other than LT, I would argue that C is the most important position on the o-line because of the multiple responsibilities with that position, so why would we want to play a guy there whom we know has no ability and move a guy whom we know has ability to a lesser position? I'm not sure I understand the rationale.


Plan's right. We have been weak at Center for several years. Last year, we had 6 guys take snaps there. We finally get a quality Center, who has never been injured, and people want to move him to another position. I don't get it.

It has been stated that we're trying to get our best 5 linemen on the field. Bill Callahan is one of the most respected OL coaches in the league. If he felt that Smith, Leary, Costa Frederick and Free were the best 5, don't you think we'd be trying it? The coaches see these players every day in practice. They review buttloads of film on them. They see far more of the players than we do. There is a tiny chance that the coaches just might know a wee bit more than us fans do.
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textaz03


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would rather have 2 strong positions on this line, 1 average and 2 unknowns

than

1 strong, 2 average and 2 unknowns!

Keep Fredbeard at Center where he is going to be at his best. Why weaken a position that has plagued us for several years (in particular last season)?

Any combination of Smith, Leary, Fredbeard, Berny, Free (strongest IMO) or Smith, Leary, Fredbeard, Free, Parnell (2nd line option IMO) or Smith, Berny, Fredbeard, Free, Parnell (3rd line option IMO)
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

textaz03 wrote:
I would rather have 2 strong positions on this line, 1 average and 2 unknowns

than

1 strong, 2 average and 2 unknowns!

Keep Fredbeard at Center where he is going to be at his best. Why weaken a position that has plagued us for several years (in particular last season)?

Any combination of Smith, Leary, Fredbeard, Berny, Free (strongest IMO) or Smith, Leary, Fredbeard, Free, Parnell (2nd line option IMO) or Smith, Berny, Fredbeard, Free, Parnell (3rd line option IMO)


Heh. Fredbeard. I like it.
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Nextyearfordaboyz


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find it amazing how we talk about Frederick like he's a savvy NFL vet even though he hasn't played a snap yet.. I can't remember the last rookie we had who got that kind of immediate respect. I hope he lives up to those expectations.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
I find it amazing how we talk about Frederick like he's a savvy NFL vet even though he hasn't played a snap yet.. I can't remember the last rookie we had who got that kind of immediate respect. I hope he lives up to those expectations.


He has looked very good thus far through four preseason games.
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Nextyearfordaboyz


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Desperado82 wrote:
Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
I find it amazing how we talk about Frederick like he's a savvy NFL vet even though he hasn't played a snap yet.. I can't remember the last rookie we had who got that kind of immediate respect. I hope he lives up to those expectations.


He has looked very good thus far through four preseason games.


I agree. I feel the same way. It feels like he's played a lot of NFL football. I'm not even especially excited to see him because it feels like he's been around. It's just a weird feeling. Tyron, Dez, Ware, etc. didn't have that kind of respect this early.
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plan9misfit


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nextyearfordaboyz wrote:
I find it amazing how we talk about Frederick like he's a savvy NFL vet even though he hasn't played a snap yet.. I can't remember the last rookie we had who got that kind of immediate respect. I hope he lives up to those expectations.


I'm not talking about him as if he's a savvy vet so much as that I don't want any part of Costa. I have more faith in an unproven rookie than I do a proven veteran failure.
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