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Miami49er


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baldwin would have been cut too a long time if not for his draft status and cap ramifications. when you join a team this late all you can do is impress on the field and he's done that. he's a speedy guy which is what we need and he can catch and make plays. he can also be a guy who can play KR. Baldwin on the other hand has not shown us anything. due to the fact that Baldwin was traded for and is a bigger cap hit is the ONLY reason he will be on this roster. politics.
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Ataal


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
Miami49er wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
Miami49er wrote:
its a shame Baldwin's draft status will keep him on the roster while Hawkins will most likely be cut. Hawkins deserves to make the roster.



We're a run first team. If a 6'4" 230lbs guy can throw a block from the outside, he has a purpose on this team. Plus he has decent speed and can make ridiculous catches, when his head is in the game. That's a guy worth a roster spot, draft status notwithstanding. We should keep Lavelle until our injured guys return. That's a decent audition, no? He just has to show enough during the 2-3 weeks LaMike is absent. If he plays well, he gets 3-4 more weeks until Mario returns. If he shows enough, who's to say we won't keep him instead of Mario? Or cut Marlon Moore? Or Kyle Williams? Lavelle Hawkins still has to prove himself, and I like it that way.
yes he has purpose I suppose but if it HAD to come down to 1 or the other they would take Baldwin even tho Lavelle in roughly the same amount of tons has made a much bigger impact. but hopefully it works out way you described it.



Hawkins has always flashed big play potential. That's the problem. If he was that good a playmaker, he wouldn't be cut by every team that gets him. He wouldn't just flash. So, he's flashing now. Should we cut another guy with potential just because Hawkins is flashing right now, like he's done several times before already?


Every team? What team, other than the Titans, has he played for? I mean, it's the Titans, and he's only been targeted 119 times in his career.

He has a shot to play for a SuperBowl ready team, with a quarterback not named Vince Young, Matt Hasselbeck, Jake Locker, or Kerry Collins.

I say we give the guy a chance.

P.S. As for the penalties.... The taunting one was a joke. The ball was held out to the side and he never looked back at anyone. Removing the helmet was probably out of frustration. As for the head butt, players do it all the time to teammates and from what I read the other day, the guy he headbutted was an ex-teammate. Totally non-issue to me.
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Ataal


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Miami49er wrote:
Baldwin would have been cut too a long time if not for his draft status and cap ramifications. when you join a team this late all you can do is impress on the field and he's done that. he's a speedy guy which is what we need and he can catch and make plays. he can also be a guy who can play KR. Baldwin on the other hand has not shown us anything. due to the fact that Baldwin was traded for and is a bigger cap hit is the ONLY reason he will be on this roster. politics.


I'm not so sure I agree with the bolded. He's had two drops. One was an inaccurate throw. The other was in tight coverage. I'm not saying he's played lights out, but he's had a few good catches. One of them, was directly related to his size. No one else on our team comes down with that ball. I think that, while also considering the cap hit, is why he has a good chance to be on the team. The Red Zone just got a little more interesting with him on this roster.
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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ataal wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
Miami49er wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
Miami49er wrote:
its a shame Baldwin's draft status will keep him on the roster while Hawkins will most likely be cut. Hawkins deserves to make the roster.



We're a run first team. If a 6'4" 230lbs guy can throw a block from the outside, he has a purpose on this team. Plus he has decent speed and can make ridiculous catches, when his head is in the game. That's a guy worth a roster spot, draft status notwithstanding. We should keep Lavelle until our injured guys return. That's a decent audition, no? He just has to show enough during the 2-3 weeks LaMike is absent. If he plays well, he gets 3-4 more weeks until Mario returns. If he shows enough, who's to say we won't keep him instead of Mario? Or cut Marlon Moore? Or Kyle Williams? Lavelle Hawkins still has to prove himself, and I like it that way.
yes he has purpose I suppose but if it HAD to come down to 1 or the other they would take Baldwin even tho Lavelle in roughly the same amount of tons has made a much bigger impact. but hopefully it works out way you described it.



Hawkins has always flashed big play potential. That's the problem. If he was that good a playmaker, he wouldn't be cut by every team that gets him. He wouldn't just flash. So, he's flashing now. Should we cut another guy with potential just because Hawkins is flashing right now, like he's done several times before already?


Every team? What team, other than the Titans, has he played for? I mean, it's the Titans, and he's only been targeted 119 times in his career.

He has a shot to play for a SuperBowl ready team, with a quarterback not named Vince Young, Matt Hasselbeck, Jake Locker, or Kerry Collins.

I say we give the guy a chance.

P.S. As for the penalties.... The taunting one was a joke. The ball was held out to the side and he never looked back at anyone. Removing the helmet was probably out of frustration. As for the head butt, players do it all the time to teammates and from what I read the other day, the guy he headbutted was an ex-teammate. Totally non-issue to me.



The Pats signed him THIS year, in MAY, and released in in JULY. That's indicative of something, no?
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Ataal


Joined: 17 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
Ataal wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
Miami49er wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
Miami49er wrote:
its a shame Baldwin's draft status will keep him on the roster while Hawkins will most likely be cut. Hawkins deserves to make the roster.



We're a run first team. If a 6'4" 230lbs guy can throw a block from the outside, he has a purpose on this team. Plus he has decent speed and can make ridiculous catches, when his head is in the game. That's a guy worth a roster spot, draft status notwithstanding. We should keep Lavelle until our injured guys return. That's a decent audition, no? He just has to show enough during the 2-3 weeks LaMike is absent. If he plays well, he gets 3-4 more weeks until Mario returns. If he shows enough, who's to say we won't keep him instead of Mario? Or cut Marlon Moore? Or Kyle Williams? Lavelle Hawkins still has to prove himself, and I like it that way.
yes he has purpose I suppose but if it HAD to come down to 1 or the other they would take Baldwin even tho Lavelle in roughly the same amount of tons has made a much bigger impact. but hopefully it works out way you described it.



Hawkins has always flashed big play potential. That's the problem. If he was that good a playmaker, he wouldn't be cut by every team that gets him. He wouldn't just flash. So, he's flashing now. Should we cut another guy with potential just because Hawkins is flashing right now, like he's done several times before already?


Every team? What team, other than the Titans, has he played for? I mean, it's the Titans, and he's only been targeted 119 times in his career.

He has a shot to play for a SuperBowl ready team, with a quarterback not named Vince Young, Matt Hasselbeck, Jake Locker, or Kerry Collins.

I say we give the guy a chance.

P.S. As for the penalties.... The taunting one was a joke. The ball was held out to the side and he never looked back at anyone. Removing the helmet was probably out of frustration. As for the head butt, players do it all the time to teammates and from what I read the other day, the guy he headbutted was an ex-teammate. Totally non-issue to me.



The Pats signed him THIS year, in MAY, and released in in JULY. That's indicative of something, no?


Moot point now, but no, I don't think that's indicative of anything. Especially considering it was the Pats. BB runs a much different ship than most teams. If, say, the Raiders did the same thing, then I'd say there's a red flag.

I still say it's a mistake letting him go. I want more explosive guys on this team. Completely nonsensical to sign a full back and let him go, in my opinion. But, that's all this is, my opinion.
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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't see how you can say that it's not indicative of anything, just because we're talking about the Pats. If the Belichik "runs a much different ship than most teams", what do you make of Jim Harbaugh's ship? MUCH much different than most teams, including the Pats, from what we've seen since he got here.

But any time a player cannot even last more than two months with a team, there has to be something wrong. You can't just say "It's normal, because Belichik is abnormal". That's not much of an argument.
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Ataal


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
I don't see how you can say that it's not indicative of anything, just because we're talking about the Pats. If the Belichik "runs a much different ship than most teams", what do you make of Jim Harbaugh's ship? MUCH much different than most teams, including the Pats, from what we've seen since he got here.

But any time a player cannot even last more than two months with a team, there has to be something wrong. You can't just say "It's normal, because Belichik is abnormal". That's not much of an argument.


My bigger point was that it wasn't a scrub team in need of talent that released him. Had it been the Raiders that cut him that quickly, it would mean much more to me.

The Pats signing and releasing Tebow was much more telling and indicative of poor performance considering BB likes Tebow and his OC drafted him. Hawkins had no such ties.
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y2lamanaki


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ataal wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
I don't see how you can say that it's not indicative of anything, just because we're talking about the Pats. If the Belichik "runs a much different ship than most teams", what do you make of Jim Harbaugh's ship? MUCH much different than most teams, including the Pats, from what we've seen since he got here.

But any time a player cannot even last more than two months with a team, there has to be something wrong. You can't just say "It's normal, because Belichik is abnormal". That's not much of an argument.


My bigger point was that it wasn't a scrub team in need of talent that released him. Had it been the Raiders that cut him that quickly, it would mean much more to me.

The Pats signing and releasing Tebow was much more telling and indicative of poor performance considering BB likes Tebow and his OC drafted him. Hawkins had no such ties.


Hawkins also has less than 800 yards and only 1 TD in over 50 career games with a slightly over 10 YPC. The fact that he had 2 explosive plays against Vikings and Chargers third stringers that were essentially cut shouldn't make us that concerned about the guy.
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Ataal


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

y2lamanaki wrote:
Ataal wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
I don't see how you can say that it's not indicative of anything, just because we're talking about the Pats. If the Belichik "runs a much different ship than most teams", what do you make of Jim Harbaugh's ship? MUCH much different than most teams, including the Pats, from what we've seen since he got here.

But any time a player cannot even last more than two months with a team, there has to be something wrong. You can't just say "It's normal, because Belichik is abnormal". That's not much of an argument.


My bigger point was that it wasn't a scrub team in need of talent that released him. Had it been the Raiders that cut him that quickly, it would mean much more to me.

The Pats signing and releasing Tebow was much more telling and indicative of poor performance considering BB likes Tebow and his OC drafted him. Hawkins had no such ties.


Hawkins also has less than 800 yards and only 1 TD in over 50 career games with a slightly over 10 YPC. The fact that he had 2 explosive plays against Vikings and Chargers third stringers that were essentially cut shouldn't make us that concerned about the guy.


He was only targeted 119 times in his career. So, those numbers aren't surprising. And, he played for the Titans during a time when they had only one quarterback play for all 16 games in a season. And, none of them were half as good as Kaepernick. I think he's a talented guy that outperformed most of the guys we kept, who also played against 2nd and 3rd stringers.

It's not the end of the world. I just don't understand the indifference or negative opinions of him.
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y2lamanaki


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ataal wrote:
He was only targeted 119 times in his career. So, those numbers aren't surprising. And, he played for the Titans during a time when they had only one quarterback play for all 16 games in a season. And, none of them were half as good as Kaepernick. I think he's a talented guy that outperformed most of the guys we kept, who also played against 2nd and 3rd stringers.

It's not the end of the world. I just don't understand the indifference or negative opinions of him.


Right - he played for the Titans...where guys like Nate Washington, Damian Williams, and Justin Gage outplayed him. There were seasons when the third string tight end had more yards than Hawkins, and they all had the same shaky QB play. With that in mind, 4 of the 5 guys we kept (Boldin, Moore, Patton, Baldwin), played against first string defenders and made a few plays. The 5th, Williams, did not play in the preseason. Hawkins ONLY went up against 3rd stringers.

And the indifference is simple - in 5 seasons in the NFL, he's been unable to gain more than 700 yards (on a team just about begging for SOME wide receiver to step up), only has one career TD, and his most impressive moments of his career came against players who will be watching their teams' games this year from the comfort of their living room couch.

I'm sorry - I can't be anything more than indifferent to cutting the 8th most productive guy from the 22nd ranked passing offense last year.
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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you can use prior poor quarterback play as a reason to give Hawkins a shot over Baldwin, I don't know what reason we could find for Baldwin... hmm.. What about poor quarterback play? Ask any Chiefs fan, they'll tell you.
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SoCalNiner


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
If you can use prior poor quarterback play as a reason to give Hawkins a shot over Baldwin, I don't know what reason we could find for Baldwin... hmm.. What about poor quarterback play? Ask any Chiefs fan, they'll tell you.


DON'T TALK ABOUT ALEX THAT WAY!
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rudyZ


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoCalNiner wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
If you can use prior poor quarterback play as a reason to give Hawkins a shot over Baldwin, I don't know what reason we could find for Baldwin... hmm.. What about poor quarterback play? Ask any Chiefs fan, they'll tell you.


DON'T TALK ABOUT ALEX THAT WAY!



I was referring to my main man, Matt Cassel! I mean, Brady Quinn! No, I meant Matt Cassel!
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y2lamanaki


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rudyZ wrote:
SoCalNiner wrote:
rudyZ wrote:
If you can use prior poor quarterback play as a reason to give Hawkins a shot over Baldwin, I don't know what reason we could find for Baldwin... hmm.. What about poor quarterback play? Ask any Chiefs fan, they'll tell you.


DON'T TALK ABOUT ALEX THAT WAY!



I was referring to my main man, Matt Cassel! I mean, Brady Quinn! No, I meant Matt Cassel!


No! Tyler Palko!

Yeah, that was a thing.
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Ataal


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

y2lamanaki wrote:
Ataal wrote:
He was only targeted 119 times in his career. So, those numbers aren't surprising. And, he played for the Titans during a time when they had only one quarterback play for all 16 games in a season. And, none of them were half as good as Kaepernick. I think he's a talented guy that outperformed most of the guys we kept, who also played against 2nd and 3rd stringers.

It's not the end of the world. I just don't understand the indifference or negative opinions of him.


Right - he played for the Titans...where guys like Nate Washington, Damian Williams, and Justin Gage outplayed him. There were seasons when the third string tight end had more yards than Hawkins, and they all had the same shaky QB play. With that in mind, 4 of the 5 guys we kept (Boldin, Moore, Patton, Baldwin), played against first string defenders and made a few plays. The 5th, Williams, did not play in the preseason. Hawkins ONLY went up against 3rd stringers.

And the indifference is simple - in 5 seasons in the NFL, he's been unable to gain more than 700 yards (on a team just about begging for SOME wide receiver to step up), only has one career TD, and his most impressive moments of his career came against players who will be watching their teams' games this year from the comfort of their living room couch.

I'm sorry - I can't be anything more than indifferent to cutting the 8th most productive guy from the 22nd ranked passing offense last year.


You keep going back to those bulk stats. Fact is, he was only targeted 119 times in that time period. I get it, he was low man on the totem pole. On a really bad team, no less. Kyle Williams has very few targets, but comes up with the ball every time it's catchable. Yet, he remains low man on our totem pole every year. Just saying, things aren't always what they seem. Production numbers can't be an entire argument. Way more to it than that.

I'd like to see someone explosive on our team. That's all I'm saying. We've lowered our standards so much for our receivers that as long as they can catch a ball, we're happy. We started seeing something more than that in Crabtree last year with his YAC. Not to mention his catch percentage was near where Fitzgerald's was back in the Warner days. Now he's injured and may not even be here next year. Bleh.

I've said all I wanted to say about this. I think he's a diamond in the rough, but, he's gone. It's a moot point.
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