Discuss football with over 60,000 fans. Free Membership. Join now!

 FAQFAQ  RegisterRegister   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

FootballsFuture.com Forum Index
FootballsFuture.com Home

Final Cuts: QB Tebow, P Mesko, RB Washington, TE Ballard
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 28, 29, 30  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> New England Patriots
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Richter


Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 12445
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

patsfan25 wrote:
Richter wrote:
I swear, this is idiotic. Throwing the ball really, really accurately (like Brady does) is a skill. Yes, it can be improved by hard work, but you either have the ability or you don't. Being able to make reads quickly and accurately is a skill. It's natural talent. You could put all the work ethic in the world into one person, and if they don't have that ability, it won't matter. See, for example, Tim Tebow.

Or, for a non-QB example, Rob Ninkovich. Believe it or not, Ninkovich is one of the better explosive athletes I've profiled. He's also something of a playmaker. His career stats, coincidentally, are very similar to Ahmad Brooks, with Brooks having an edge in sacks, while Ninkovich has an edge in tackles, interceptions and forced fumbles. Why is Ninkovich not listed as a talented guy, but Brooks is?


So when did I say talent was all measureables? It's a combination of a ton of things to account for. I listed a few players from each team. Sorry I didn't list every single player. Obviously, when you evaluate the talent of a team, you look at it from top to bottom, tier-to-tier in its entirety.

Also, Brooks > Ninkovich

And when did I say that? You keep moving the goal posts. Either define your terms and lay out what you're saying, or don't bother to make a claim like that if you're not willing to defend it. You say the Pats aren't as talented as many teams, and when people bring up talents or skills of the players, you say they don't count, while listing other, similar players and declaring them talented. Buy into the media narrative about gritty, try-hard guys stocking the Patriots if you want, but it makes no sense and is easily refuted if you're actually willing to consider facts.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
TomRalph


Joined: 03 Apr 2009
Posts: 11029
Location: Deadpulse on the Sig
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is like NBT but instead of WR's it's the whole entire team.

If the players are 6'4"+ and run slower than a 4.5 without ridiculous hamstrings then they are useless and aren't NFL caliber.
_________________

Adopt-a-Patriot '14: Danny Amendola
Catches: 4
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
patsfan25


Joined: 07 Dec 2008
Posts: 5486
Location: CenCal
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomRalph wrote:
This is like NBT but instead of WR's it's the whole entire team.

If the players are 6'4"+ and run slower than a 4.5 without ridiculous hamstrings then they are useless and aren't NFL caliber.


Not once did I make that generalized assumption. Don't go there.

It's been entirely clear and obvious that BB's regime here has consisted of acquiring players suited fit for the team. The ideal BB player for the first part, has a high football IQ, team mentality and has the refined techniques of assignment and positional understanding down. He seldom goes for the blue chip talented player. Given, that's not a critic at all, as long as success is indulged. However, there is always the risk of missing that blue chip collar talented player who can get everything down that BB requires as well. That concept is clearly the way BB goes about taking in players. His way of bringing in players has an astronomical concept of how the player fits into his system and the team. Nonetheless, it's a great system that he runs, because he is good enough to and he makes it work. I am hard pressed some of you don't realize that by now.

My whole point was, the Patriots roster isn't as talented as they are an elite team. But oh no, I tried to look at something objectively and make a distinctive observation. I'm an idiot, a pessimist, and a knockoff of the team. It baffles me how some of you will take it to the brink of your graves.
_________________

Logan Ryan
Tackles:13 Forced Fumbles:1
PDs:3 INTs:1 Pick 6s:


Deadpulse Ink.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
swi7ch


Joined: 04 Dec 2011
Posts: 96
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pats may have doomed their season by cutting God's favorite child, Tim Tebow. Bad bad move...vSad
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tzimisce


Most Valuable Poster
Joined: 13 Oct 2005
Posts: 48219
Location: Tuntmore Tower
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

swi7ch wrote:
Pats may have doomed their season by cutting God's favorite child, Tim Tebow. Bad bad move...vSad
Yeah, keeping Tebow on the roster sure worked out great for the Jets last year. Rolling Eyes
_________________

I adopted some kid named Malcolm Butler
If anyone sees him, let me know.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
PoWww


Joined: 28 Feb 2013
Posts: 1493
Location: Were onto Chicago
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom Brady is an athlete. Just because he isn't fast or in ridiculous shape doesn't mean he isn't athletic. He was also drafted as a catcher by the Expos.
_________________

^Deadpulse
TomRalph wrote:
Looking forward to a Top 10 pick this year.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Donut


Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Posts: 12520
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

patsfan25 wrote:
TomRalph wrote:
Richter wrote:
patsfan25 wrote:
Nihc wrote:
That Tom Brady guy isn't that talented and doesn't play an important position. McCourty and Ridley aren't that great either.


Tom Brady has never been a talented athlete. He's the greatest QB of all-time and it has nothing to do with skills and athleticism. Ridley is nothing special. He creates nothing for himself. And McCourty's talent is par to most DBs in the league. He has great work ethic and intelligence however, and that propels him

Ugh. Apparently you're not famliar with what the word "skills" means.


Laughing Laughing Laughing

I think the expectations are just so high because these players wear Patriot colours. We really have been spoiled and lulled into expecting much more than we really should.


I just don't think you guys are willing to admit some things because of that reason. Brady is a laughable athlete. And his superiority on the field has nothing to do with natural talent.

I don't see how you can be an awful athlete and be drafted by 2 different pro sports leagues. To be great in any sport you need to have talent and athletcism. Brady may not be biggest fastest or strongest. But his ability to throw w/ touch, accuracy and have a fast delivery is talent. Natural ability to do a lot of what he does is talent.

patsfan25 wrote:
He seldom goes for the blue chip talented player.

what? how is it rare? Look at last few drafts. Chandler Jones was a raw player but a freakish athlete. hightower was another athletic player. Solder was again very raw but a very good athlete. People thought he was going to bust because he had so many issues but only faith people had was in Scar fixing them. Dowling was a great athlete. Not many have a combination of his size speed and overall athletcism. Gronk and Hernandez were both very athletic. Can't ignore the fact Collins has some freaky athletcism. You don'tsee someone his size jump 41 inches at the combine often.

People can say blue collar attitude of this team but there are a lot of very good athletes on this team. Just because someone works hard for what they have does not mean they aren't talented.
_________________
dhunt2402 wrote:
You're like the patron saint of roster bubble players Laughing
Adopt a Patriot: Tim Wright
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address MSN Messenger
Billy Spikes


Joined: 12 Jul 2008
Posts: 40501
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edit:
Wrong thread.
_________________
#JDI
Official Roster Cutdowns Thread
All Time Top Ten Safeties Ranking
Tom Brady Tribute


Last edited by Billy Spikes on Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
24isthelaw


Joined: 15 Nov 2010
Posts: 7657
Location: Where the Patriots are
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PoWww wrote:
Tom Brady is an athlete. Just because he isn't fast or in ridiculous shape doesn't mean he isn't athletic. He was also drafted as a catcher by the Expos.


The guy is going to be an all-time great in a sport which was his second-best in HS.... but he's not a good athlete. Laughing
_________________

Adopt-a-Patriot: Marcus Forston - Practice squad (0 tackles, 0 sacks)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
rabbisson


Joined: 26 Dec 2004
Posts: 28840
Location: Stam#PoWwW
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

24isthelaw, I want a new MS Paint sig please Very Happy.

Surprise me.
_________________

Iggles wrote:
This guy gets it. Seriously, the ideas being espoused here need to get to 88 mph so they can go back to the 1950's.

I'm a cold-blooded dickens.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rabbisson


Joined: 26 Dec 2004
Posts: 28840
Location: Stam#PoWwW
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also, Rob Ninkovich is better than Mike Vrabel ever was, and I'm pretty sure Vrabel would be considered talented. It's an unpopular opinion, but the biggest reason Vrabel is deified is because he caught passes at TE and played MLB a little bit.
_________________

Iggles wrote:
This guy gets it. Seriously, the ideas being espoused here need to get to 88 mph so they can go back to the 1950's.

I'm a cold-blooded dickens.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nihc


Joined: 13 Sep 2011
Posts: 3363
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rabbisson wrote:
24isthelaw, I want a new MS Paint sig please Very Happy.

Surprise me.


I really liked the Chandler Jones one from last year.
_________________


2014 Adopt-a-Patriot - Dominique Easley
Tackles: 0 | Sacks: 0 | QB Hits: 0 | TFL: 0 | Fumble Recoveries: 0
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Richter


Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 12445
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rabbisson wrote:
Also, Rob Ninkovich is better than Mike Vrabel ever was, and I'm pretty sure Vrabel would be considered talented. It's an unpopular opinion, but the biggest reason Vrabel is deified is because he caught passes at TE and played MLB a little bit.

Bwaaah? Mike Vrabel is deified because he was productive and made big plays for winning teams, and was a pretty good pass rusher in his prime (that he lost a couple years towards after being shifted inside). He was a first team all-pro, even. I like Ninkovich, and the book is hardly closed on his career, but I'd say it's more than a little premature to say he's better than Mike Vrabel ever was. Let's see him put up a 12.5 sack season like the one Vrabel had, at least.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rabbisson


Joined: 26 Dec 2004
Posts: 28840
Location: Stam#PoWwW
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richter wrote:
rabbisson wrote:
Also, Rob Ninkovich is better than Mike Vrabel ever was, and I'm pretty sure Vrabel would be considered talented. It's an unpopular opinion, but the biggest reason Vrabel is deified is because he caught passes at TE and played MLB a little bit.

Bwaaah? Mike Vrabel is deified because he was productive and made big plays for winning teams, and was a pretty good pass rusher in his prime (that he lost a couple years towards after being shifted inside). He was a first team all-pro, even. I like Ninkovich, and the book is hardly closed on his career, but I'd say it's more than a little premature to say he's better than Mike Vrabel ever was.Let's see him put up a 12.5 sack season like the one Vrabel had, at least.


This may well be the year when that happens if Ninkovich continues his upward trajectory. But I take slight issue at the "big play" contention. Ninkovich has made some huge plays for the Patriots in his career as well, and he has played in far fewer playoff games than Vrabel had at the same time due to the rebuilding nature of the defense around him.

It is intriguing that Vrabel really peaked in '05-'07, when he hit 30. We'll see if Ninkovich has a similar pattern. I think he could go for 12 sacks this year though.
_________________

Iggles wrote:
This guy gets it. Seriously, the ideas being espoused here need to get to 88 mph so they can go back to the 1950's.

I'm a cold-blooded dickens.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Richter


Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 12445
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rabbisson wrote:
Richter wrote:
rabbisson wrote:
Also, Rob Ninkovich is better than Mike Vrabel ever was, and I'm pretty sure Vrabel would be considered talented. It's an unpopular opinion, but the biggest reason Vrabel is deified is because he caught passes at TE and played MLB a little bit.

Bwaaah? Mike Vrabel is deified because he was productive and made big plays for winning teams, and was a pretty good pass rusher in his prime (that he lost a couple years towards after being shifted inside). He was a first team all-pro, even. I like Ninkovich, and the book is hardly closed on his career, but I'd say it's more than a little premature to say he's better than Mike Vrabel ever was.Let's see him put up a 12.5 sack season like the one Vrabel had, at least.


This may well be the year when that happens if Ninkovich continues his upward trajectory. But I take slight issue at the "big play" contention. Ninkovich has made some huge plays for the Patriots in his career as well, and he has played in far fewer playoff games than Vrabel had at the same time due to the rebuilding nature of the defense around him.

It is intriguing that Vrabel really peaked in '05-'07, when he hit 30. We'll see if Ninkovich has a similar pattern. I think he could go for 12 sacks this year though.

If he does, it will be because Jones breaks out and draws more attention on his side. And yes, I could definitely see Ninkovich hitting double digit sacks this year. I think this is going to be his career year, in fact. I still would not take him over Vrabel at this point.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   

Post new topic   Reply to topic    FootballsFuture.com Forum Index -> New England Patriots All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... , 28, 29, 30  Next
Page 29 of 30

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group