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TomRalph


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why is Brady so good then?

All the intangibles, film work, studying, work ethic etc. are skills. They aren't Madden attributes, but they are skills and they are skills that Tom Brady is elite in.
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patsfan25


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TomRalph wrote:
Why is Brady so good then?

All the intangibles, film work, studying, work ethic etc. are skills. They aren't Madden attributes, but they are skills and they are skills that Tom Brady is elite in.


I can agree with that. However, I don't agree that they fall under skills/talent. Which has exactly been my point. And it's not even a knock. There are too many dimensions to account for.....and that's a good thing, because it doesn't require just skill/talent to succeed.
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Nihc


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skills / Talent doesn't win football games, good football players do. We have one of the best teams of football players. I don't know why anything else is even relevant. This team is going to be crazy good.
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patsfan25


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nihc wrote:
Skills / Talent doesn't win football games, good football players do. We have one of the best teams of football players. I don't know why anything else is even relevant. This team is going to be crazy good.


So if you were to ask me, "How good are the Patriots?"

They are a top 5 team.

Ask me, "How talented is the Patriots roster?"

I'd say top 12.

Nothing else is relevant. We happened to jump onto the subject of "talent" on this roster. And I gave my voice, which I think is sufficiently better than calling this roster one of the most talented in the entire league.
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Deadpulse


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow really. Brady has skill and talent.

What you guys are saying is he isn't ATHLETIC. He isn't a physical freak.

However he skilled and talented, athleticism isn't required.
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Nihc


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess I'm just confused at what talent is if Brady isn't among the most talented players in the entire league. You have to be talented mentally to be a good QB.
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Deadpulse


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nihc wrote:
I guess I'm just confused at what talent is if Brady isn't among the most talented players in the entire league. You have to be talented mentally to be a good QB.


Touch and timing is also talent. In fact, when evaluating young QB's they call it "arm talent"
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Richter


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I swear, this is idiotic. Throwing the ball really, really accurately (like Brady does) is a skill. Yes, it can be improved by hard work, but you either have the ability or you don't. Being able to make reads quickly and accurately is a skill. It's natural talent. You could put all the work ethic in the world into one person, and if they don't have that ability, it won't matter. See, for example, Tim Tebow.

Or, for a non-QB example, Rob Ninkovich. Believe it or not, Ninkovich is one of the better explosive athletes I've profiled. He's also something of a playmaker. His career stats, coincidentally, are very similar to Ahmad Brooks, with Brooks having an edge in sacks, while Ninkovich has an edge in tackles, interceptions and forced fumbles. Why is Ninkovich not listed as a talented guy, but Brooks is?
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Nihc


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richter wrote:
I swear, this is idiotic. Throwing the ball really, really accurately (like Brady does) is a skill. Yes, it can be improved by hard work, but you either have the ability or you don't. Being able to make reads quickly and accurately is a skill. It's natural talent. You could put all the work ethic in the world into one person, and if they don't have that ability, it won't matter. See, for example, Tim Tebow.

Or, for a non-QB example, Rob Ninkovich. Believe it or not, Ninkovich is one of the better explosive athletes I've profiled. He's also something of a playmaker. His career stats, coincidentally, are very similar to Ahmad Brooks, with Brooks having an edge in sacks, while Ninkovich has an edge in tackles, interceptions and forced fumbles. Why is Ninkovich not listed as a talented guy, but Brooks is?



I believe I asked you this before but I lost track of the thread I asked it in, where is the list of your most explosive players?
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Richter


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nihc wrote:
Richter wrote:
I swear, this is idiotic. Throwing the ball really, really accurately (like Brady does) is a skill. Yes, it can be improved by hard work, but you either have the ability or you don't. Being able to make reads quickly and accurately is a skill. It's natural talent. You could put all the work ethic in the world into one person, and if they don't have that ability, it won't matter. See, for example, Tim Tebow.

Or, for a non-QB example, Rob Ninkovich. Believe it or not, Ninkovich is one of the better explosive athletes I've profiled. He's also something of a playmaker. His career stats, coincidentally, are very similar to Ahmad Brooks, with Brooks having an edge in sacks, while Ninkovich has an edge in tackles, interceptions and forced fumbles. Why is Ninkovich not listed as a talented guy, but Brooks is?



I believe I asked you this before but I lost track of the thread I asked it in, where is the list of your most explosive players?

Saved on my hard drive? I list prospects by years, I don't have a post dedicated to the list, because it would be insanely long and require me to format it to be posted. I can look up a player if need be, but I honestly don't have the inclination to maintain the list in post format.
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Nihc


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richter wrote:
Nihc wrote:
Richter wrote:
I swear, this is idiotic. Throwing the ball really, really accurately (like Brady does) is a skill. Yes, it can be improved by hard work, but you either have the ability or you don't. Being able to make reads quickly and accurately is a skill. It's natural talent. You could put all the work ethic in the world into one person, and if they don't have that ability, it won't matter. See, for example, Tim Tebow.

Or, for a non-QB example, Rob Ninkovich. Believe it or not, Ninkovich is one of the better explosive athletes I've profiled. He's also something of a playmaker. His career stats, coincidentally, are very similar to Ahmad Brooks, with Brooks having an edge in sacks, while Ninkovich has an edge in tackles, interceptions and forced fumbles. Why is Ninkovich not listed as a talented guy, but Brooks is?



I believe I asked you this before but I lost track of the thread I asked it in, where is the list of your most explosive players?

Saved on my hard drive? I list prospects by years, I don't have a post dedicated to the list, because it would be insanely long and require me to format it to be posted. I can look up a player if need be, but I honestly don't have the inclination to maintain the list in post format.


Thought I saw you make a post pre-draft that had a lot of names on it. Out of curiosity, top 5 names of all time and who are the top couple of Patriots?
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Richter


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nihc wrote:
Richter wrote:
Nihc wrote:
Richter wrote:
I swear, this is idiotic. Throwing the ball really, really accurately (like Brady does) is a skill. Yes, it can be improved by hard work, but you either have the ability or you don't. Being able to make reads quickly and accurately is a skill. It's natural talent. You could put all the work ethic in the world into one person, and if they don't have that ability, it won't matter. See, for example, Tim Tebow.

Or, for a non-QB example, Rob Ninkovich. Believe it or not, Ninkovich is one of the better explosive athletes I've profiled. He's also something of a playmaker. His career stats, coincidentally, are very similar to Ahmad Brooks, with Brooks having an edge in sacks, while Ninkovich has an edge in tackles, interceptions and forced fumbles. Why is Ninkovich not listed as a talented guy, but Brooks is?



I believe I asked you this before but I lost track of the thread I asked it in, where is the list of your most explosive players?

Saved on my hard drive? I list prospects by years, I don't have a post dedicated to the list, because it would be insanely long and require me to format it to be posted. I can look up a player if need be, but I honestly don't have the inclination to maintain the list in post format.


Thought I saw you make a post pre-draft that had a lot of names on it. Out of curiosity, top 5 names of all time and who are the top couple of Patriots?

Top 5 are Jamie Collins, J.J. Watt, DeMarcus Ware, Cameron Wake, Julius Peppers and Mario Williams, with Collins pushing Williams out of the top 5 this year. Collins, Ninkovich and Jones are the top scorers for the Patriots' defensive players.
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Nihc


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richter wrote:
Nihc wrote:
Richter wrote:
Nihc wrote:
Richter wrote:
I swear, this is idiotic. Throwing the ball really, really accurately (like Brady does) is a skill. Yes, it can be improved by hard work, but you either have the ability or you don't. Being able to make reads quickly and accurately is a skill. It's natural talent. You could put all the work ethic in the world into one person, and if they don't have that ability, it won't matter. See, for example, Tim Tebow.

Or, for a non-QB example, Rob Ninkovich. Believe it or not, Ninkovich is one of the better explosive athletes I've profiled. He's also something of a playmaker. His career stats, coincidentally, are very similar to Ahmad Brooks, with Brooks having an edge in sacks, while Ninkovich has an edge in tackles, interceptions and forced fumbles. Why is Ninkovich not listed as a talented guy, but Brooks is?



I believe I asked you this before but I lost track of the thread I asked it in, where is the list of your most explosive players?

Saved on my hard drive? I list prospects by years, I don't have a post dedicated to the list, because it would be insanely long and require me to format it to be posted. I can look up a player if need be, but I honestly don't have the inclination to maintain the list in post format.


Thought I saw you make a post pre-draft that had a lot of names on it. Out of curiosity, top 5 names of all time and who are the top couple of Patriots?

Top 5 are Jamie Collins, J.J. Watt, DeMarcus Ware, Cameron Wake, Julius Peppers and Mario Williams, with Collins pushing Williams out of the top 5 this year. Collins, Ninkovich and Jones are the top scorers for the Patriots' defensive players.


Thanks, I knew Collins was #1 on your list but wow, that's some real good company. I haven't seen anything from Collins yet that flashes that athletic ability though.
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Richter


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nihc wrote:
Richter wrote:
Nihc wrote:
Richter wrote:
Nihc wrote:
Richter wrote:
I swear, this is idiotic. Throwing the ball really, really accurately (like Brady does) is a skill. Yes, it can be improved by hard work, but you either have the ability or you don't. Being able to make reads quickly and accurately is a skill. It's natural talent. You could put all the work ethic in the world into one person, and if they don't have that ability, it won't matter. See, for example, Tim Tebow.

Or, for a non-QB example, Rob Ninkovich. Believe it or not, Ninkovich is one of the better explosive athletes I've profiled. He's also something of a playmaker. His career stats, coincidentally, are very similar to Ahmad Brooks, with Brooks having an edge in sacks, while Ninkovich has an edge in tackles, interceptions and forced fumbles. Why is Ninkovich not listed as a talented guy, but Brooks is?



I believe I asked you this before but I lost track of the thread I asked it in, where is the list of your most explosive players?

Saved on my hard drive? I list prospects by years, I don't have a post dedicated to the list, because it would be insanely long and require me to format it to be posted. I can look up a player if need be, but I honestly don't have the inclination to maintain the list in post format.


Thought I saw you make a post pre-draft that had a lot of names on it. Out of curiosity, top 5 names of all time and who are the top couple of Patriots?

Top 5 are Jamie Collins, J.J. Watt, DeMarcus Ware, Cameron Wake, Julius Peppers and Mario Williams, with Collins pushing Williams out of the top 5 this year. Collins, Ninkovich and Jones are the top scorers for the Patriots' defensive players.


Thanks, I knew Collins was #1 on your list but wow, that's some real good company. I haven't seen anything from Collins yet that flashes that athletic ability though.

Most of these guys blow up in their second seasons. Watt and Wake only had 5.5 sacks in their first years, and Williams only had 4.5. Peppers was the big exception with 12. Collins did some nice things in the preseason, flashing into the backfield and blowing up some runs. He also got lost in coverage a handful of times. He's got a decent learning curve with everything they've thrown on his plate, and he hasn't really been used much as a pass rusher.
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patsfan25


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Richter wrote:
I swear, this is idiotic. Throwing the ball really, really accurately (like Brady does) is a skill. Yes, it can be improved by hard work, but you either have the ability or you don't. Being able to make reads quickly and accurately is a skill. It's natural talent. You could put all the work ethic in the world into one person, and if they don't have that ability, it won't matter. See, for example, Tim Tebow.

Or, for a non-QB example, Rob Ninkovich. Believe it or not, Ninkovich is one of the better explosive athletes I've profiled. He's also something of a playmaker. His career stats, coincidentally, are very similar to Ahmad Brooks, with Brooks having an edge in sacks, while Ninkovich has an edge in tackles, interceptions and forced fumbles. Why is Ninkovich not listed as a talented guy, but Brooks is?


So when did I say talent was all measureables? It's a combination of a ton of things to account for. I listed a few players from each team. Sorry I didn't list every single player. Obviously, when you evaluate the talent of a team, you look at it from top to bottom, tier-to-tier in its entirety.

Also, Brooks > Ninkovich
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