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JustPlainNasty


Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 7099
Location: Las Vegas
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:37 am    Post subject: Tomlin Reply with quote

I have a feeling we will hear a lot of negativity regarding Tomlin and Colbert at the end of this season.

I will get a kick out of how the same people that brag about how the Steelers have only had 3 coaches in 40+ years will be calling for the axe at the end of this season. "Cowher's team this and Cowher's team that." He's no Noll etc.

Let me remind those of us that are so spoiled as to have never experienced, hardly experienced losing seasons or that have selective memories.

Noll

1984 9-7 Lost AFC championship to Miami
1985 7-9
1986 6-10
1987 8-7 *
1988 5-11
1989 9-7 Lost in Divisional Playoffs
1990 9-7
1991 7-9

* Strike season


Bill Cowher

Beginning Cowher's 7th year
1998 7-9
1999 6-10
2000 9-7


Also it was Chuck Noll that drafted the 1987 draft class that provided the majority of the players that contributed to the Steelers run in the 90's.

1987 R. Woodson, G. Lloyd, Thomas Everett, Hardy Nickerson, Merril Hoge
1988 Dermontti Dawson , Warren Williams, John Jackson
1989 C. Lake, Jerrol Williams, D.J Johnson, J. Oslavsky, C. Haselrig
1990 E. Green, N. O'Donell, Barry Foster, J. Strelczyck
1991 E. Mills, Adrian Cooper, Leroy Thompson


This will be the start of Tomlin's 7th season.

I see this and have seen this as a transition year, how you could not see that and understand that seems crazy to me. I do however expect players to get opportunities, develop and decisions to be made on. I expect next year to be a better year where we can actually compete and throw a good punch should we make it to the playoffs.

We may make it to the playoffs this year but that may only hinder the expediency of the transition. A 7-9 record could net us a Top 12 pick rather than a 9-7 as a Top 22 pick. It makes a big difference round by round. Especially in the top of the 2nd and 3rd rounds. It could be the difference in the first round of having a shot at an elite OT or CB rather than looking at the top TE or a better OG.

Hang in there my friends and enjoy the ride and watch for development.
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Last edited by JustPlainNasty on Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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wwhickok


Joined: 27 Nov 2012
Posts: 13404
Location: Montgomery, PA aka Steeler Nation!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only person I'm continually questioning is Colbert with some of the choices he makes in the draft. Especially when it comes to the 2nd round and to selecting QB's to replace Ben. But overall, I'm very happy with our FO. I also still believe we're capable of a 12-4 season this season.

This is my post from the other thread:

wwhickok wrote:
First of all, great post 43.


For those of you ready to burn Tomlin at the stake, do you realize this is just the second time since he has been our Head Coach that we have missed the playoffs? Not once, that's right, I said NOT ONCE has this team finished under .500 with Mike Tomlin as their Head Coach.

On 5 occassions Bill Cowher missed the playoffs. Guess what, BOTH coaches won a Super Bowl and lost a Super Bowl. Did you know Chuck Noll missed the playoffs 11 times, granted he also coached 4 Super Bowl teams as well.

I'm not saying Tomlin is better than Noll, I AM saying Tomlin is better than Cowher. Tomlin's two non-playoff seasons were 9-7 & 8-8; 7-9, 6-10, 9-7, 6-10, 8-8, those are Cowhers' non-playoff records, and it has been argued 'he had a better team'. In fact that arguement has been used as the reason Tomlin won his first SB, which personally I think is a crock of ****.

Bill Cowher's Win/Loss Record: 149901 (161991 including playoff games). 12-9 in the playoffs (the tie is vs. Atlanta, November 10, 2002)

Mike Tomlin's Win/Loss Record: 6836 - 5-3 in the playoffs


The biggest thing I question about Tomlin is some of his situational decision making. Such as choosing to go for it on 4th & 1's or 4th and Goals when the outcome of the decision is detrimental. But if they worked, no one would be questioning them. There are reasons to criticize him for his clock management, sure, but he wins a lot more than he loses.

Tomlin is easily a Top 5 Head Coach in the NFL, he does a great job putting competitive teams on the field, we are a dangerous team that remains in the hunt every single year.

As far as the criticism of his passion, attitude, and discipline, again, I think that's total B.S. I've seen plenty of cases where it's very clear Tomlin is angry on the side line and vocal. He is a different coach than Cowher, he's not going to act like him, it's not his style.

You can't blame Tomlin for injuries or having to make decisions based upon them. You could perhaps blame the Strength and Conditioning Coach, I do that all the time Wink , you could blame Colbert for not doing a better job evaluating someone's durability perhaps, that's arguable, but you can't blame Tomlin for having to play someone else because a particular starter can't stay healthy.

We finished the 2012 season at 8-8. How many of you really think that would have been the case with a healthy offensive line and Ben Roethlisberger? If you really do, you're naive and blind. We put what was easily a 10-6, 11-5, maybe even 12-4 team on the field. Without Ben, we struggle, period. Maybe Gradkowski wins us the games that Leftwich and Batch couldn't, maybe he doesn't, time will tell. We should've been Baltimore twice, we should've beaten Cleveland twice, we should've beaten Cincy in our final meeting. Right there is a difference of 3 games. With a healthy Ben, I think we could've beaten SD & Dallas as well. Let's say I'm right, do you realize that amounts to a 13-3 season?

How many of you think the Baltimore Ravens would've been the AFCN team holding the Lombardi Trophy? I don't, but that doesn't matter because things happened how they happened and Baltimore did win the SB.

This team isn't far away from another SB and I don't think the loss of Wallace, Harrison, & Lewis put us far away. We replaced them with Wheaton, Jones, and eventually Terry Hawthorne, I think we'll be fine.

There isn't a single coach, including Bill Bellichick, I'd rather have in the entire NFL. I honestly mean that, I finished last season with a ton of optimism, I know we've got some issues with injuries already but I'm not backing off of my 12-4, Division winner, AFC Championship Game prediction. I have picked Denver to win the Super Bowl, but that's not without believing that Pittsburgh could very well be there and could very well win it.

It's friggin' preseason, who cares if we're winning. When game 1 of the regular season gets here, if we fall flat on our faces, then say what you want. Until then, join me on the Stairway to Seven and have some faith!

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FourThreeMafia


Joined: 28 Sep 2006
Posts: 49845
Location: East of Sixburgh
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is actually a thread for Tomlin already...on the first page too...discussing pretty much the same thing! Cool

Joking aside, I actually made a long post in that thread that sums up my thoughts....



FourThreeMafia wrote:

Its not that the thread annoys me, its just the mindset people have regarding head coaches in general.

Tomlin isnt perfect. I will be the first to admit that, but I challenge you to find 10 head coaches who are better, and I want legit reasons they are better if you do. Head coaches are hard to assess, because in reality, their impact isnt always completely quantifiable. Much like QBs, they take more heat than they deserve when the team is losing and more glory when they are winning...in most cases.

Here is what annoys me about Steeler fans and SOME of their attitudes towards Tomlin....they are usually completely baseless and unfair critcisms. For instance, the ones that always make me laugh are the ones regardling LeBeau and Colbert...

When the defense is doing well, LeBeau gets the praise. When the defense struggles, its Tomlin's fault for not having the team ready to play.

WHICH THE HELL IS IT? This isnt directed at you bltizburgh, but I absolutely loathe when people cherry pick where to place blame. They probably both deserve blame, but if youre going to say "this is LeBeau defense, not Tomlin"...put the blame on LeBeau. Thats what Jayme use to always do with coaches players he didnt like (See Timmons 2007-2009)

Sane with Colbert and the draft. Draft a good player and Colbert is a genius. Draft a dud and its a poor pick by Tomlin.

Cowher was far from perfect as well. Steeler fans look back on him fondly, but there were years that he got hated on big time....and this was in the early days of internet forums and before they even existed. Cowher wasnt coaching when this stuff became big and there werent fans to disect him on a regular basis. When we missed the postseason 3 times between 98-2000, Steeler fans were going nuts. Cowher reportedly got some death threats and there were also threats against the Rooneys if they didnt replace him. Not sure how true it was, but I remember hearing stuff like that.

HOWEVER, Cowher righted the ship and got things back on track.

Bottom line is this....all we can do is judge Tomlin based on what we know, and that is the product on the field. For as much as some complain about him, this team has still always performed well under him OVERALL. Game to game you can find faults, but Tomlin cant control every little thing that happens on the field. Steeler fans arent used to missing the playoffs, so everytime we do, there are overreactions. Now, I am not saying there arent criticisms regarding Tomlin that are not legit, but the comments regarding how he should be fired or isnt the man for the job are narrow minded and laughably premature.

They are premature because this is still a quality team until proven otherwise. We have our holes, but even last year, we were in every single game. If Ben never got hurt, I am almost postive we wouldve made the playoffs, because that injury set him back IMO. You figure we lost a close game against Baltmore with a backup QB and there were several games at the end of the year that were lost because of one or two plays. Tomlin is the coach, but ulitimately, the players play the game. its his job to prepare them, and I will admit...they do seem underprepped sometimees, but usually its one or two plays that make the difference.

They are narrow minded because for Tomlin's shortcomings, he is still a quality coach in a league where good head coaches are extremely hard to find. If we got rid of Tomlin and the team kept going downhill, I guarantee there would be a ton of Steeler fans bashing the front office for getting rid of Tomlin...especially if they got rid of him before the team fell off completely.

Tomlin does deserve blame for the teams struggles, but there are two things to remember....1) this IS NOT struggling. Steeler fans treat 8-8 like the plague and think its the end of days, looking for anyone to blame. When we start approaching that abyss, Ill start calling for a new head coach. For now, Im going to just say we are in a transition period that would be tough for any coach to manage. And 2) while the head coach deserves blame, our issues extend well beyond just Tomlin. Colbert's drafting, LeBeau's reluctance to change things, poor scouting of certain positions, injuries and a buttload of other factors that Tomlin doesnt have direct control over. Again, as head coach, he is still the one that gets blame for that, but regardless, head coaches dont do it alone. I know thats not news to anyone, but even if we got rid of Tomlin, its very unlikely much would change unless they made sweeping changes....and at this point, thats drastically premature and unnecessary.

Also, I never got the "he doesnt seem fit to lead them" argument. Based on what? Ive never heard anything bad about Tomlin's coaching from the people he ACTUALLY COACHES. Fans seems to invent this reason because he doesnt scream and yell like Cowher on the sidelines, but people dont understand that that isnt real coaching. Cowher was NOT successful because of THAT, he was successful because of the coaching he did that fans DIDNT see.

And, to this point, regardless of how Steeler fans feel at the moment, this team is still compettive and have been every year under Mike Tomlin. Until that changes, there is absolutely, postively no reason to even entertain the notion of looking for a different coach. I for one dont want to be a team that changes head coaches at the first sign of adverstiy. The Steelers have had 3 HC's in nearly 50 years, and they have proven they wont give up on coaches easily. Both Noll and Cowher had their struggles, and the Steelers stuck with them (Noll maybe a bit too long). Tomlin hasnt really even begun to struggle. 4 playoffs, 2 SB appearance and a ring in 6 years....even if Tomlin isnt perfect, you cant complain too much about the results.

Until this team shows consistent regression...Tomlin should be the coach. And when I say consistent regression, I dont mean going 8-8 a season or two and a few plays being the difference in losses...unless its a prolonged period where we arent doing anything. Im talking about being a team that cant compete anymore.

And regardless of your feelings on Tomlin, we have competed EVERY SINGLE YEAR under him.

In all of our losses under Tomlin (36 counting playoffs), most of the losses have been within 1 score, and of the ones that werent, most were still very close and winnable games. The only games under Tomlin I would say we were severely outmatched were Pats 2007, Titans 2008, Pats 2010, 49ers 2011 and Ravens 2011....and to a lesser extent, SB 45 vs Green Bay. And the thing about most of those losses...we turned it around after all of them (except maybe the 49ers in 2011, but thats hard to say).

Bottom line, we compete week in and week out under Tomlin. Until that is no longer the case, he should remain the coach.

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CKSteeler


Joined: 17 Mar 2013
Posts: 4372
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the team struggles this year, I'm going to think it has more to do with the youth movement.

It would still bug me, though. Other teams have gone through "transition" years and still had playoff runs. Steelers fans are used to stability lately, and veterans. The Ravens turn over more of their roster on a yearly basis it seems. They plug guys into starting roles and still compete for the division and have won playoff games. In 2010, they reshuffled their OL, added the young TE's and Leach. They also had turnover at WR.

How many new starters does this team have?
McLendon, Worilds/Jones, Allen, Decastro, Adams, Sanders, maybe Bell when he returns, TE until Miller is back

No rookies, besides Jones, are being counted on to see heavy time. All of the guys being asked to step-up have been developed for years and some have already seen heavy playing time. Really all of them, besides McLendon. Even he received snaps, though. Sanders, Allen and Worilds can only sort of even be called new starters given how much time they've played.

Meanwhile, the team is looking to have a healthy Polamalu, Woodley, and Roethlisberger. That's three Pro Bowl players who should be returning to form.

Why, exactly, should transition be an excuse for the Steelers this year and not the Ravens or many other teams in the NFL on a yearly basis? If other teams/coaching staffs are making faster transitions, than an it is an indictment of the coaching staff/personnel department if they can't do the same thing (barring injuries)..

That doesn't mean I'll call for Tomlin's heads with a down year, but I don't like the built-in excuse some people are developing for this season before it even takes place.
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JustPlainNasty


Joined: 11 Feb 2008
Posts: 7099
Location: Las Vegas
PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My apologies I didn't notice it.
Pretty bad since its titled the exact same thing. Embarassed
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