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24isthelaw


Joined: 15 Nov 2010
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Location: Where the Patriots are
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A few thoughts.

No offense to anyone in particular, but every time I hear suggest that the Patriots are "wasting Brady's prime years", I tune them out entirely. The notion that the Pats are somehow entitled to win every year because they have Brady, and that they must be somehow holding themselves back to not win the Super Bowl, is just ludicrous.

Football is a TEAM game in an extremely competitive league, and when the team loses Brady is just as much at fault as anyone else. If Brady were so deserving of a 4th ring, he wouldn't have tossed that ball to Chase Blackburn, or missed Maroney wide open on the first play of the game.

I'm not going to suggest that Brady has "gone soft" or any of that nonsense, but ts maddening watching "Patriots fans" (read: Tom Brady fans) deflect any shred of blame that he shares in the team's struggles. When they win its all Tom Brady's brilliance, and when they lose its never in any way his fault. The reality is that if Tom executes 5 of 70 offensive snaps in those games at a higher level he's playing for a ring on his second hand. To blame the receivers, offensive line, coaches, everyone on defense for their mistakes and act like he's getting dragged around while being flawless and helpless tells me you haven't watched the sport for long.

So please spare me that "wasting his prime years" bull. The Pats are trying to win the Super Bowl. They are making moves to put themselves in the position to win. Not winning one is a testament to the teams that have outplayed them in Jan/Feb, not an indictment of NE.
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Brocktonbob


Joined: 11 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom Brady was far from perfect in those 2 games but this I do know , he put his team in a position to win the game with just a few minutes left. Was the ball to Welker perfect? No, but it was a ball that 95% of NFL receivers make every day in practice.
He is 36 years old and the "team" has a window of maybe 3-4 more years of having one of the 5 greatest QB's ever in his prime to win a dynasty clinching 4th bowl. I would have preferred to build the receiving core differently than the greatest coach ever has done. That's just my opinion and I thought this is what this site is for.
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24isthelaw


Joined: 15 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brocktonbob wrote:
Tom Brady was far from perfect in those 2 games but this I do know , he put his team in a position to win the game with just a few minutes left. Was the ball to Welker perfect? No, but it was a ball that 95% of NFL receivers make every day in practice.
He is 36 years old and the "team" has a window of maybe 3-4 more years of having one of the 5 greatest QB's ever in his prime to win a dynasty clinching 4th bowl. I would have preferred to build the receiving core differently than the greatest coach ever has done. That's just my opinion and I thought this is what this site is for.


OK, sorry if that came out condescending. You are entitled to your own opinion as am I.

I don't think its fair, in a game of inches and extremely slim margins, to pin blame. Yes, if Samuel makes the interception the game is over. But if Brady does something differently that could have been the tipping point as well. The Pats were 1 play away from victory in both games, and any one of 46 guys could have made that ONE play, and none of them did. To me that's on a team collectively.

As for building the team, its not like they aren't trying or something. Look at Baltimore, they gutted a championship team out of necessity. The realities of the cap mean that trying your hardest isn't always enough. Its not like baseball where the Sox can just go out and take a flier on a guy for 40 mil.

Bottom line is, I take issue with implying that 45 people are holding back the 46th when they were collectively tasked with making ONE MORE PLAY to win and collectively failed to do so. That's why football is fun, its a true team game. No 'LOL WE HAVE THE BEST PLAYER SO IT DOESN'T MATTER' crap like basketball, for example.
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Brocktonbob


Joined: 11 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

24-fair point, They have been so painfully close I just don't know if they needed to be so "dramatic" with the changes they had at receiver. I mean not brining Lloyd back for whatever reason is fine and the Hernandez situation is just pain crazy but for a team so close , it's just a tall task to rebuild that position so much.
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24isthelaw


Joined: 15 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brocktonbob wrote:
24-fair point, They have been so painfully close I just don't know if they needed to be so "dramatic" with the changes they had at receiver. I mean not brining Lloyd back for whatever reason is fine and the Hernandez situation is just pain crazy but for a team so close , it's just a tall task to rebuild that position so much.


The way I see it, the real issue in terms of roster composition was the loss of Hernandez... but that's something that was 100% unexpected.

The 'plan' was to go into the season with Amendola, Gronkowski, and Hernandez as the 1-2-3, plus several rookies with upside to become regular contributors (KT, Dobson, Boyce, or Sudfeld) and Edelman as a veteran presence. Sounds good to me.

Unfortunately, Hernandez decided to live a secret double life blowing people away. So how do you replace him externally, after the fact?

The viable option would be to trade for a mediocre vet who's team doesn't want him (ie. Nate Washington). But as we've seen with Lloyd, who put up 12.3 YPC and caught only 57% of the balls thrown his way, a vet could turn out to be even more of a black hole than a rookie.

Guys who are available are available for a reason unfortunately. You get good players by finding them before they are good (ie. the draft, hidden gems like Welker), or by taking a chance on someone who is seen as a good player but with some kind of other risk attached. In August its hard to add a useful WR.
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Billy Spikes


Joined: 12 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Screenshot of #Bills HC Doug Marrone's reaction to Stevie Johnson's drop late in the 4th quarter on 3rd down



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NextBigThing


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you see the receiving corps that Peyton, Eli, Ryan, Romo, Rodgers, etc all have, it is obvious Brady's pales in comparison. Big Ben is being asked to do what Bradys had to do for countless seasons, not expecting him to be quite as good. Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Deadpulse


Joined: 16 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NextBigThing wrote:
When you see the receiving corps that Peyton, Eli, Ryan, Romo, Rodgers, etc all have, it is obvious Brady's pales in comparison. Big Ben is being asked to do what Bradys had to do for countless seasons, not expecting him to be quite as good. Laughing Laughing Laughing


Peyton signed with that Broncos corps with the exception of Welker, The Giants did what the Patriots are doing now (UDFA and all, took Cruz awhile to stick too), Falcons rebuilt with Ryan with White already there, The Cowboys arent a good team despite Bryant and Austin, the Packers let Greg Jennings walk and developed from within.

Not sure what you want the Patriots to do with those examples? They are drafting WR in hopes they develop (ala Jordy Nelson, James Jones, Randall Cobb, Hakeem Nicks, Rueben Randle) and it's too late for Brady to arrive with good weapons because he is already here (unlike Peyton and Ryan), and they are let UDFA's get their shot (ala Cruz, Decker) and letting guys whose value isnt there walk (Welker, Moss). I am definitely not comfortable emulating the Cowboys ways that havent worked at all for over a decade. I wont even give you Julio Jones because that was a HUGE risk giving up so much for a relatively unknown prospect. If he had been just good that wouldve been one of the worst draft day moves ever.
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Billy Spikes


Joined: 12 Jul 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Dan Connolly had a really tough day in pass coverage. Two sacks, two pressures were on him.


https://twitter.com/jeffphowe/status/377116885747134465
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24isthelaw


Joined: 15 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deadpulse wrote:
Peyton signed with that Broncos corps with the exception of Welker, The Giants did what the Patriots are doing now (UDFA and all, took Cruz awhile to stick too), Falcons rebuilt with Ryan with White already there, The Cowboys arent a good team despite Bryant and Austin, the Packers let Greg Jennings walk and developed from within.

Not sure what you want the Patriots to do with those examples? They are drafting WR in hopes they develop (ala Jordy Nelson, James Jones, Randall Cobb, Hakeem Nicks, Rueben Randle) and it's too late for Brady to arrive with good weapons because he is already here (unlike Peyton and Ryan), and they are let UDFA's get their shot (ala Cruz, Decker) and letting guys whose value isnt there walk (Welker, Moss). I am definitely not comfortable emulating the Cowboys ways that havent worked at all for over a decade. I wont even give you Julio Jones because that was a HUGE risk giving up so much for a relatively unknown prospect. If he had been just good that wouldve been one of the worst draft day moves ever.


1. Your sig is badass. Love it.

2. Guys listed here (James Jones, Rueben Randle, Randall Cobb, Victor Cruz) weren't ballin' out on their first career game. They needed varying degrees of development (Cobb was out there from the start, but as a guy you get the ball, and not really a guy who was targeted on routes). Dobson (who has the same pedigree ostensibly as all those guys) and KT are rookies. Who says this is what they are going to be for us all season long?
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Billy Spikes


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Patriots... post-win.



You wouldn't think they won.
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Tzimisce


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only two offensive snaps each for Collins and Ryan.
11 for Buchanan
29 for Vellano
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Nihc


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tzimisce wrote:
Only two offensive snaps each for Collins and Ryan.
11 for Buchanan
29 for Vellano


Wouldn't read much into that. At some point our DT/DE were going to need to come off the field. We're stacked at LB and Ryan is our 4th CB.
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Dalton


Joined: 16 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tzimisce wrote:
Only two offensive snaps each for Collins and Ryan.
11 for Buchanan
29 for Vellano


Were we trying them at WR/TE? Laughing
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mcmurtry86


Joined: 02 Mar 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tzimisce wrote:
Only two offensive snaps each for Collins and Ryan.
11 for Buchanan
29 for Vellano


Well they ran a 4-2-5 the whole game so those snaps shouldn't surprise.
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