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Roster cuts- The Final 53...???? OP updated
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ReggieCamp


Joined: 06 Dec 2006
Posts: 9422
Location: Canonsburg, PA
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tori Gurley cleared waivers and made it to our practice squad.

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ditchdigger


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entropy wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
So the front office didn't like the 2013 draft, trading away two picks and even cutting one of their own.


Now they currently have 10 undrafted players from that draft on the roster from that class - most in the NFL by a wide margin.

Josh Aubrey
MarQueis Gray
Paul Hazel
Dennis Johnson
Patrick Lewis
Brandon Magee
Eric Martin
Keavon Milton
Martin Wallace
Spencer Lanning

Only the first and last on that list were in Browns camp.


1) I don't think you are saying that the Browns should have drafted any of those players in the 4th or 5th round instead of getting a 2014 3rd and 4th round pick, so what ARE you saying they should have done?

2) Did you think Slaughter played well enough to make the roster?

3) It is neither unusual nor is it bad to cut a 6th (late) round draft pick to either get him to the practice squad OR to get him off the team if he's not good enough. That is a very poor criticism.

4) The Browns clearly would have liked more of those players to be in Browns camp, but the players made choices to sign UDFA contracts with other teams--did you think it was a good idea to try to beat Dallas' 70K guaranteed salary on Magee? No, you don't.

5) Why are you criticizing the Browns for things they had little to no control over?

6) If there are players that you think they let go that were better than the ones they kept, we can talk about that.

7)If there are players that you think they should not have signed, we can talk about that.

8 ) If there are players that you think they should have signed, but didn't, we can talk about that--those last 3 things would all be valid criticisms


1. God no. I'm not saying what they should have done. I'm saying what they did. My post was virtually devoid of commentary; merely a statement of facts. Draw your own conclusions.

2. Slaughter didn't play hardly at all, so no. Might not have been a good idea to draft a guy who ruptured his Achilles' tendon in the middle of the 2012 season, especially a guy who wasn't all that good to begin with.

3. Again, it was not a criticism. It was a statement of facts for you to draw your own conclusions from. If you take it as criticism, maybe you are critical of the move.

4. Conjecture, your honor. I move for this to be stricken from the record. Also, if counsel could refrain from answering questions for the witness, that would be great.

5. Why are you reading criticism into this post? Why do you think they had no control over their own roster? Why do you ask more questions than a toddler?

6. That's not what my post is about. It's about the fact that they signed close to 20 UDFAs in April, but found just one keeper (not counting the punter, because he's a punter).

7. I'm not splitting hairs over which UDFA should have been kept over another.

8. It's not about who they should have signed, but who they bypassed in the draft and ended up having to scramble for another team's UDFA cut to fill that spot. Shamarko Thomas or Barrett Jones in the 4th could have solved some problems. Joseph Randle or AJ Klein in the 5th could have contributed more than some other team's UDFAs. Devonte Holloman is being called "Hands" Holloman for his interceptions in camp after the Cowboys took him 10 spots after the Browns drafted Jamoris Slaughter in the 6th.

But it is what it is. We blew the draft, and now we're seeing the fruits of that come to light.

Now if you plan on answering this post point for point, I'd say don't waste your time since I won't respond again. I get it. You love everything that's happened, and think the front office has been error-free in this process. Like you said earlier, agree to disagree.
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ditchdigger


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
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Location: Gahanna, OH
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ReggieCamp wrote:
Tori Gurley cleared waivers and made it to our practice squad.


Is that the first person we've signed to the PS? I haven't heard of any others.
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ditchdigger


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ReggieCamp wrote:
Tori Gurley cleared waivers and made it to our practice squad.


Here's Nate Ulrich's story on the 7 we've signed.

http://www.ohio.com/blogs/cleveland-browns/cleveland-browns-1.270107/browns-sign-seven-players-to-their-practice-squad-including-sixth-round-pick-jamoris-slaughter-1.425560

Quote:
defensive backs Jamoris Slaughter, Kip Edwards, Darius Eubanks, Terrence Frederick and Julian Posey and wide receivers Jasper Collins and Tori Gurley.


5 DBs and 2 WRs
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BooyaCS


Joined: 27 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ditchdigger wrote:
ReggieCamp wrote:
Tori Gurley cleared waivers and made it to our practice squad.


Is that the first person we've signed to the PS? I haven't heard of any others.


No we signed several.

Jasper Collins WR MUC
Kip Edwards DB
Darius Eubanks DB
Terrence Fredrick DB
Tori Gurley WR
Julian Posey DB
Janoris Slaughter DB
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ditchdigger


Joined: 09 Jan 2005
Posts: 17095
Location: Gahanna, OH
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BooyaCS wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
ReggieCamp wrote:
Tori Gurley cleared waivers and made it to our practice squad.


Is that the first person we've signed to the PS? I haven't heard of any others.


No we signed several.

Jasper Collins WR MUC
Kip Edwards DB
Darius Eubanks DB
Terrence Fredrick DB
Tori Gurley WR
Julian Posey DB
Janoris Slaughter DB


Right after I posted that Nate Ulrich tweeted his blog post out. Thank you for your answer, though.
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ReggieCamp


Joined: 06 Dec 2006
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Location: Canonsburg, PA
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BooyaCS wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
ReggieCamp wrote:
Tori Gurley cleared waivers and made it to our practice squad.


Is that the first person we've signed to the PS? I haven't heard of any others.


No we signed several.

Jasper Collins WR MUC
Kip Edwards DB
Darius Eubanks DB
Terrence Fredrick DB
Tori Gurley WR
Julian Posey DB
Janoris Slaughter DB

Given the low WR and DB count on the 53, it's not surprising that the makeup of the PS looks like that.

I guess they must have been more concerned about losing our extra O-linemen while Pinkston and Lauvao are out, as opposed to losing a WR or 2 while Gordon is out. The DB's, especially, need to stay healthy, or we are in a world of hurt.
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BooyaCS


Joined: 27 Feb 2007
Posts: 7520
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ReggieCamp wrote:
BooyaCS wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
ReggieCamp wrote:
Tori Gurley cleared waivers and made it to our practice squad.


Is that the first person we've signed to the PS? I haven't heard of any others.


No we signed several.

Jasper Collins WR MUC
Kip Edwards DB
Darius Eubanks DB
Terrence Fredrick DB
Tori Gurley WR
Julian Posey DB
Janoris Slaughter DB

Given the low WR and DB count on the 53, it's not surprising that the makeup of the PS looks like that.

I guess they must have been more concerned about losing our extra O-linemen while Pinkston and Lauvao are out, as opposed to losing a WR or 2 while Gordon is out. The DB's, especially, need to stay healthy, or we are in a world of hurt.


I wouldn't be surprised if we bring in a vet WR like Meecham after the Dolphins game. If a vet is on your roster before game 1 you are on the hook for their entire yearly salary. After week 1 it is week to week.
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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Posts: 2736
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ditchdigger wrote:
Entropy wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
So the front office didn't like the 2013 draft, trading away two picks and even cutting one of their own.


Now they currently have 10 undrafted players from that draft on the roster from that class - most in the NFL by a wide margin.

Josh Aubrey
MarQueis Gray
Paul Hazel
Dennis Johnson
Patrick Lewis
Brandon Magee
Eric Martin
Keavon Milton
Martin Wallace
Spencer Lanning

Only the first and last on that list were in Browns camp.


1) I don't think you are saying that the Browns should have drafted any of those players in the 4th or 5th round instead of getting a 2014 3rd and 4th round pick, so what ARE you saying they should have done?

2) Did you think Slaughter played well enough to make the roster?

3) It is neither unusual nor is it bad to cut a 6th (late) round draft pick to either get him to the practice squad OR to get him off the team if he's not good enough. That is a very poor criticism.

4) The Browns clearly would have liked more of those players to be in Browns camp, but the players made choices to sign UDFA contracts with other teams--did you think it was a good idea to try to beat Dallas' 70K guaranteed salary on Magee? No, you don't.

5) Why are you criticizing the Browns for things they had little to no control over?

6) If there are players that you think they let go that were better than the ones they kept, we can talk about that.

7)If there are players that you think they should not have signed, we can talk about that.

8 ) If there are players that you think they should have signed, but didn't, we can talk about that--those last 3 things would all be valid criticisms


1. God no. I'm not saying what they should have done. I'm saying what they did. My post was virtually devoid of commentary; merely a statement of facts. Draw your own conclusions.

2. Slaughter didn't play hardly at all, so no. Might not have been a good idea to draft a guy who ruptured his Achilles' tendon in the middle of the 2012 season, especially a guy who wasn't all that good to begin with.

3. Again, it was not a criticism. It was a statement of facts for you to draw your own conclusions from. If you take it as criticism, maybe you are critical of the move.

4. Conjecture, your honor. I move for this to be stricken from the record. Also, if counsel could refrain from answering questions for the witness, that would be great.

5. Why are you reading criticism into this post? Why do you think they had no control over their own roster? Why do you ask more questions than a toddler?

6. That's not what my post is about. It's about the fact that they signed close to 20 UDFAs in April, but found just one keeper (not counting the punter, because he's a punter).

7. I'm not splitting hairs over which UDFA should have been kept over another.

8. It's not about who they should have signed, but who they bypassed in the draft and ended up having to scramble for another team's UDFA cut to fill that spot. Shamarko Thomas or Barrett Jones in the 4th could have solved some problems. Joseph Randle or AJ Klein in the 5th could have contributed more than some other team's UDFAs. Devonte Holloman is being called "Hands" Holloman for his interceptions in camp after the Cowboys took him 10 spots after the Browns drafted Jamoris Slaughter in the 6th.

But it is what it is. We blew the draft, and now we're seeing the fruits of that come to light.

Now if you plan on answering this post point for point, I'd say don't waste your time since I won't respond again. I get it. You love everything that's happened, and think the front office has been error-free in this process. Like you said earlier, agree to disagree.


1. Yes, I said that I didn't think you were doing that--then you said you weren't doing that...um thanks, for clearing that up from the dept of redundancy dept--you were also being critical, it's obvious, and there's also nothing wrong with it, so lying about it is unnecessary

2. Slaughter was a very versatile safety for ND. The Browns needed that. He had an injury. The Browns drafted him in the 6th round. What part is so hard for you to understand that you concluded that this is proof that they 'blew the draft'? No, I don't really think you will answer. Why would you? We both already know the answer. You hate Lombardi.

3. Yes it was a criticism. You offered it as proof of your criticism that the Browns 'didn't like' the 2013 draft. What you omitted from the facts, however, was that the Browns liked Mingo, McFadden, the 2014 3rd, the 2014 4th, Bryant, and Gilkey. That's as much of the choices they made in the 2013 draft as any other team. So, the honest conclusion was that they liked their 2013 draft about as much as any other NFL team.

4. Yes, of course you don't want facts obscuring the record.

5. Why do you have trouble understanding English? Is it obstructionism? Why are you more passive-aggressive than a 12 year old girl with an overbearing daddy? The Browns had no control over most of those UDFAs choosing to sign with us over other teams--are you saying they did?

6. Oh, so you think it was a good thing to try to find quality low-risk high reward players all the time. Got it. I agree.

7. Yes, why would you talk about that.

8. Yes, Shamarko Thomas is clearly the answer to our safety problems. He is light-years better than Gipson and Bademosi--because you hate Lombardi. I got it. Same with Barrett Jones and all the other players you mentioned...it's so obvious that there is absolutely no reason to debate it or even bring it up at all before now. And that's why you didn't.

I mean, if only I would have asked you before what you would have done differently. I'm sure you would have answered the question with 'Shamarko Thomas' and not a 'toddler' remark or some other avoidance behavior.

So my conclusion is that you're wrong about 'blowing' the draft and my evidence is that Mingo, McFadden, the 2014 3rd, the 2014 4th, Bryant, and Gilkey all have not played much football.

You might be right in 3 or 4 years, but you're wrong right now and that won't change.

If you actually read my comments instead of spending so much time avoiding them and thinking up personal attacks and digs that will make it through the rules--you would see that I do not 'love' everything and I don't think the FO is 'error free'.
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bulldog


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think these are great PS signings.

The direction of the new FO is a little more clear now.
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Estonianzulu


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entropy and Ditch, you guys are done. At this point you are just arguing not really having a discussion.

Ditch- "Why do you ask more questions than a toddler?" isn't really helpful and is just antagonizing

Entropy- "Why are you more passive-aggressive than a 12 year old girl with an overbearing daddy?" Is just as unhelpful and antagonizing.

Please just let things go when it gets into a back and forth rather than devolve into this bickering.

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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Posts: 2736
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BooyaCS wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
ReggieCamp wrote:
Tori Gurley cleared waivers and made it to our practice squad.


Is that the first person we've signed to the PS? I haven't heard of any others.


No we signed several.

Jasper Collins WR MUC
Kip Edwards DB
Darius Eubanks DB
Terrence Fredrick DB
Tori Gurley WR
Julian Posey DB
Janoris Slaughter DB


Looks like we still have a spot open.

Who do you think it might be reserved for? Bryant? An OL?
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Dropkick_pride


Joined: 18 Jan 2009
Posts: 10805
Location: C-bus
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Entropy wrote:
BooyaCS wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
ReggieCamp wrote:
Tori Gurley cleared waivers and made it to our practice squad.


Is that the first person we've signed to the PS? I haven't heard of any others.


No we signed several.

Jasper Collins WR MUC
Kip Edwards DB
Darius Eubanks DB
Terrence Fredrick DB
Tori Gurley WR
Julian Posey DB
Janoris Slaughter DB


Looks like we still have a spot open.

Who do you think it might be reserved for? Bryant? An OL?


Still think armonty Bryant gets cut and/or moved to ps...

And 11 OL still...
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Dawgpoun8017


Joined: 14 Jan 2009
Posts: 12341
Location: Waterloo,NY
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bulldog wrote:
I think these are great PS signings.

The direction of the new FO is a little more clear now.


Same
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Entropy


Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Posts: 2736
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dropkick_pride wrote:
Entropy wrote:
BooyaCS wrote:
ditchdigger wrote:
ReggieCamp wrote:
Tori Gurley cleared waivers and made it to our practice squad.


Is that the first person we've signed to the PS? I haven't heard of any others.


No we signed several.

Jasper Collins WR MUC
Kip Edwards DB
Darius Eubanks DB
Terrence Fredrick DB
Tori Gurley WR
Julian Posey DB
Janoris Slaughter DB


Looks like we still have a spot open.

Who do you think it might be reserved for? Bryant? An OL?


Still think armonty Bryant gets cut and/or moved to ps...

And 11 OL still...


Something tells me that the Browns fear that Bryant may be swiped if they release him.

Also, if anyone else is as interested as I am--

Here are the numbers of UDFAs that participated on the active rosters of playoff teams last year:

Pats 18
Ravens 18
Texans 12
Broncos 17
Colts 26
Bengals 14
Skins 15
Packers 25
Falcons 13
49ers 12
Seahawks 15
Vikings 10

Last year the number for the Browns was 18.

I didn't look for them all, but the Ravens had 9 UDFAs that were either rookies or 2nd year players last year.
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